Federal Subpoena Seeks Names, Birthdates, Addresses, & Passwords Etc On Web Posters!

This is happening right now. In at least this case...these folks are not theatening any one...only making comments about this tax investigation case!

Is there information that ATS members can share, to protect our IP numbers, hard dirves, and personal information...to protect oursleves from this? We can not even comment anymore without being investigated?

This really concerns me...has it come to this already?

Free speech should be practiced only by those who are ready to deal with the consequences, which just might include a knock on the door by a friendly federal investigator wanting to know if you posted an anonymous comment on a Web site. Were you advocating violence or confessing to breaking the federal tax laws?

This is not a hypothetical.

This is happening right now!

On May 26 the Review-Journal published an article about an ongoing federal tax evasion trial. The primary defendant, Las Vegan Robert Kahre, stands accused of tax fraud for using the rather inventive argument that he could pay people in U.S. minted gold and silver coins based on their precious metal value but for tax purposes use their face value, which is many times less.

People posting comments about this story will now be investigated by the U.S. Attorney General!

This past week the newspaper was served with a grand jury subpoena from the U.S. attorney's office demanding that we turn over all records pertaining to those postings, including "full name, date of birth, physical address, gender, ZIP code, password prompts, security questions, telephone numbers and other identifiers ... the IP address," et (kitchen sink) cetera.

Tantamount to killing a gnat with an A-bomb.

There was no indication what they were looking for or what crime, if any, was being investigated, just a blanket subpoena for voluminous and detailed records on every private citizen who dared to speak about a federal tax case.

Sure, some of the comments were a bit rough, but criminal?

One person who signed himself "Louis D. Brandeis" called federal prosecutor Greg Damm, whose name is on the subpoena, "evil incarnate and everything that is against the American justice system."

"Christian Patriot" wrote a couple days later, "I suggest we go back to a gold and silver standard, which would immediately wipe out the national debt, not charge us interest for their toilet paper, or better yet, I'll trade you eggs for milk. Tax that if you will."

"Randall" wrote, "If it is legal tender, value of said legal tender it set by the gov and stamped on the face.

"Maybe the Government should be on trial."

Read them yourself at eforum.reviewjournal.com...

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:

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President Obama Tells a Whopper! "We Will Not Moniter Internet Traffic" !?

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news.zdnet.com...

[edit on 9-6-2009 by burntheships]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by burntheships]



Mod Edit. Fixed external quote tags.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by GAOTU789]

Kind of shocking that they would gothis far.

As far as the case in question, I support the employers right to do this. On the flip side the employees should be responsible for the gains they get when they convert the face value to hard cash. Precious metals also do not allow you a preferential treatment of the gains.

I can see the goverment having a problem with this because they are effectively avoiding social security and medicare taxes on both sides. Employer and employee. Who is going to be asked to make up the difference? We are. Either through high taxes or reduced benefits.

The real winner is the guy providing the metals. They make a commision on the sale to the employer and also on the employee when they trade it for real cash. When all is considered this guy is actually putting some of the load he should be paying directly onto his employees.

I can't say that I disagree with the govemrent's stance on this.

This, of course, is not surprising considering the way our government has been headed for decades. The link to where all these posts are has been removed....

It will only get worse, you know, not better for all of us who wish to speak our minds about the corrupt government that runs this country. So much for freedom, eh??

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


I agree that laws are laws...but the story is not about taxes here. The invasion of these peoples privacy under the guise of what...they commented on a tax story?

Maybe you missed that part...that the government wants to investigate the people who posted comments to the story...?!?!?!



[edit on 9-6-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by burntheships


God find S&F.

This is unbelievable ! What the hell has this country come to If they are allowed to do this and get away with it we can basically kiss our first amendment rights goodbye

Can you imagine how many people will stop bringing important issues to light, investigating and giving their opinions on important matters out of fear of reprocustions from the feds.

They have no right to request any of that information about people posting on a website, unless maybe they are threatening to carry out some terrorist act against the country. If we don't put a stop to things like this now, it will only get much, much worse

reply to post by burntheships


This is part of their facist attempt to control every person of this country along with every single aspect of our lives.

They are using the perfect tool to do it with fear . When some people hear about things like this they are filled with the fear of a jackbooted regime dressed in black suits and sunglasses showing up at their doors and dragging them off to some internment camp, because they voiced their opinion on the internet.

We must not succumb to their scare tactics and allow them to rule over us using scare tactics to take away our right to voice our opinions, and our right to keep ourselves informed.

reply to post by chise61



Of course! That was my first reaction to this story...fear!
You are right too in saying that it is a facist move on the part of the government! I still am reeling from reading it...these people will be investigated for making comments on a story about taxes!

Perhaps eveyone is afraid to comment? If that is the case...so long as they read this...that was my intent! At lease we need to be aware of what is going on, and what can happen to us!


[edit on 9-6-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by burntheships


Many of the posters had stated thier attempt or desire to avoid taxes. It is against the law to not pay your taxes. Thus I can understand the goverment taking this action. The more I think about it the less shocking it is.

That said, our tax system blows. I think only income that is not spent should be taxed. Still, a cheat is a cheat.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


Again...many posters did not say anything of the sort! And...again, the real crime here is not taxes...I pay my taxes.

The wrong here is the violation of privacy. Loss of freedom of speech?
I wonder if Thomas Jefferson could have been subpoenaed when he wrote from Paris in 1787: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

The Sedition Act wasn’t passed until 12 years later. I thought it had since been repealed.

Another thought crosses my mind...along the lines of Chise1961 comments...

It appears that the government may already have this information...and is making a federal case out of it for other reasons...

1. To strike fear into the heart of any one who does not agree with the facist railroad...

2. To make federal case law out of it...

Any other ideas?

reply to post by burntheships



The Las Vegas Review Journal has already taken a defeatest stance concerning this...

Bottom line: We could fight the federal subpoena, at considerable expense, and lose. Our attorneys are now trying to see if we can limit the scope of the information sought.

www.lvrj.com...

When other internet news sources and forums see this they may also follow suit with a defeatest attitude, and then a precedent has been set and they've won. If they would fully fight this and they win, they will have set a legal precedent and give other sites the knowledge that this is a winable (spelling?) situation.

This is the kind of defeatest attitude they were hoping for. If the first site they subpoena caves in without a fight, it stands to reason that all the rest will follow suit and they've won.

reply to post by burntheships


This is scary! Names, Birthdates, Addresses, & Passwords Etc On Web Posters!

Can you see how many things are fitting together so precisely ?? This is not a coincidence.. I have my bug out bag ready.

I wont be taking my laptop.

This is one HUGE Freedom that will be taken away. One after another!!

[edit on 9-6-2009 by wonderworld]

reply to post by chise61


I'm not worried that they are going to cause a terrorist attack. We will be the target terrorists.

Homeland Security has already gone so far to accuse us, and ex Military.

I forgot to add that Ive searched and searched our Constitution and we have NO privacy rights. Odd isnt it?

reply to post by wonderworld


I meant that the only reason they (the feds) would have for legitimately requesting the personal info of people posting would be if the poster had posted some kind of terrorist threat.

Yes isn't it a shame what this country has come to ? Declaring their own citizens terrorists simply because they believe in their constitutional rights, want their country to be viewed favorably, support their troops, etc.

IMO they should all be thrown out of office nd charged with treason or something, especially for accusing our military personell.

I'm sure we're all considered terrorists simply for being a member of this forum anyway

reply to post by wonderworld

This past week the newspaper was served with a grand jury subpoena from the U.S. attorney's office demanding that we turn over all records pertaining to those postings, including "full name, date of birth, physical address, gender, ZIP code, password prompts, security questions, telephone numbers and other identifiers ... the IP address," et (kitchen sink) cetera.

www.lvrj.com...

The poster's should have privacy under the site that they posted on. The site is not required to turn over that information unless the government is investigating a crime, and then only the info pertaining to the suspect is required to be released.

I hope that subpoena was signed by a judge and not a lawyer. When a subpoena asks for personal information it must be signed by a judge.

I would imagine anyone posting on ATS observing the Terms and Conditions by which they signed on as a member , should have no worries.

Use that star to sail by ~ and you won`t run adrift.

Then again .......

..... the Patriot Act hangs like the sword of Damocles over all who repeatedly proffer opinions, which radically depart from the mainstream.



[edit on 9-6-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Anyone posting on any public forum is held accountable for any material he or she has made public. No T&C will stand in the way of a court order, its that simple and does not require a law degree to understand that.

I myself have 18 dedicated servers located across the world, they span from North to South, East to West. All the data centers they have been sent to have specific guidelines regarding to content. I do have my administrators keep log files from all servers for a term of two years for security reasons. Although in the East there is going to be a change that all logged files from all sties/forums, must be kept for term of five years. I have been involved in some legal issues with clients involved in file sharing and other activities without my knowledge until the data center phoned me on my cell and mentioned the problem with a particular server running. I directed my admin to log files on a particular client with incoming and outgoing ip's and take all legal steps to ensure or compliance with the contract i had signed.

Yes,in a nut shell, that particular person was transferring illegal material and was using my part of the server as an exchange root. Obviously it was shut down once we were convinced he had broken his terms with us and was not refunded. After legal advice i was handed, it was possible that the data center could allow authorities to enter and eventually physically remove the server itself resulting in major loss of revenue for myself and irreversible damage to my client list.

They are trying to catch tax cheats. They will look for people who spend more than they make.They fear a black market will develop( it should). The ptb does not want anyone to be able to buy black market vegetables and medicine. Control the food control the people. Because of the bailout money the ptb no longer need drug dealers to support them.

But, but, your honor, I never posted to that site, nor have I ever said such things...Who you gonna get to show that I did, and not some other person, with access to my 'puter? And, NO, I have no idea WHO that other person may be.
Are you SURE it came from my IP?

Or some such as that...

reply to post by burntheships


This topic was posted yesterday:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


I like what you've done, but I cannot get onto the review-journal webpage.

Says my IP is banned - never been on that site before.

You should direct your OP to the other page, where everyone can view the source article.