SEAL report on what realy happened!

Originally posted by benoni

Surely a true patriot would not even attempt to bring their President into it...

Except, he injected himself into it with a lie that distorted what the SEALs actually accomplished AGAINST HIS WILL, without his approval, and without drawing attention to themselves for the "mission accomplished."

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
AGAINST HIS WILL, without his approval

I'm not sure what are you talking about. Here's from the same source.

President Barack Obama had already authorised the Bainbridge's commander, Frank Castellano, to use deadly force if Mr Phillips' life was in "imminent danger".

Just before 7.20pm, that moment arrived. One of the pirates inside the lifeboat appeared to point his Kalashnikov at the 53-year-old captain's back.

At the same time, the snipers reported they had rare clear lines of fire through their night-vision scopes at each of the pirates.

The order was given, and they fired simultaneously. Shortly afterwards, rescuers slid down ropes into the lifeboat and found the three pirates dead.

If you handle every situation cowboy style, the next time, the criminals will raise the stake and the ransom. Believe you me, you don't want to go there, especially if you only have your big mouth to back you up.

The captain is lucky that the SEALS got them all in one go. Do you know how difficult that is? You can even say, it's a miracle, it's Zen!

I have to add though, I understand if the field commander was frustrated with the situation, but that just doesn't happen only with the CIC, it also happens with generals and other commanding officers, too. And the hierarchical military culture is not to question the order of your superior, hence the superior officer has to be more open and more transparent to avoid confusion and frustration.

[edit on Tue, 21 Apr 09 by Jazzyguy]

From The Times

On Friday night President Obama gave authority to use lethal force to save the life of Captain Phillips. The next night the Seals arrived.

Each Seal is trained for more than a year at a cost estimated at up to $500,000. After an initial eight weeks of basic US Navy training, candidates go through six months of specialised Seal training, including three weeks of parachute training and the so-called Hell Week – five days of almost nonstop exercises with only four hours’ sleep. The US Government, which has 2,450 Seals on active duty, will not say where the Seals who joined the USS Bainbridgeare based. Reports said that they belonged to the elite Naval Special Warfare Development Group, known as DevGru.

The Seal sharpshooters reportedly had many opportunities to shoot but held fire because they believed that Captain Phillips was not in imminent danger. On Sunday morning the pirate wounded by the ice pick asked to come on board the USS Bainbridge. The surrendering pirate reportedly told officers that the pirates were ready to kill their captive and demanded a ransom.

The lifeboat was drifting closer to the hostile Somali coast where the hostage could have been taken to a stronghold. When the weather deteriorated on Sunday US Navy negotiators offered to tow the drifting lifeboat to calmer waters. The USS Bainbridge had attached a 200ft towline but reeled it in slowly until the lifeboat was only 75ft behind the warship.

As darkness fell at 7.19pm on Sunday the snipers, watching through their night-vision rifle scopes, saw two pirates poke their heads out of a lifeboat hatch. The third, visible through a window, pointed his AK47 at Captain Phillips’ back.

ABC News reported that Captain Phillips had moved to one side of the lifeboat to relieve himself, giving the sharpshooters clean shots. Commander Frank Castellano, the captain of the USS Bainbridge, decided that the American hostage was in imminent danger andgave the order to fire. The snipers each took a single shot, killing all three pirates immediately, officials said. “This is something that was not overly complicated,” Mr Cummings said. “The distance was not that far. A few things made it more difficult. They were shooting a moving target from a moving platform, and you need a lot of patience too. On something like this they probably had to go for head shots . . . And they had to do it simultaneously.”

When the Seals rushed on board the lifeboat they found Captain Phillips tethered to its inside.

Mr Murphy said that the pirates had many chances to save themselves. “They were warned. We gave them so many outs, and they got greedy.”

This timeline, from the Captain of the USS Bainbridge, seems to be at odds with the sentiment of the right wingers who believe Obama lacked "balls" at a time of crisis,dillydallied by refusing "to give the order" to "attack" the boat (another weakness..).A humaneness also seems to have been shown to these pirates...something you rabble seem devoid of ....

Bah, leave it Benoni, they believe that somalis (sorry "raggies" was it ?) represent without exeption "the axis of evil". The only good somalis are the one's who just shut up and starve to death.
They can't grasp the fact that the western world has bled africa dry, which has inevitably lead to warlords, attacks on humanitarian workers, poverty and crime.
They think that when they create a monster, the best way to deal with it is to pretend that they are not responsible, and crush it. They will never change the root of the problem : their rotting, proud, condescending and manichaeist society.
It's people like this who have lead us to where we are now. Drowning in our own greed, divided as a species, bigoted and hatefull.
They cannot understand that killing has consequences, and that the more they kill, the more will seek to destroy them. They welcome this, because human life has no value to them if it does not fly an american flag.

reply to post by benoni


So - in your mind - it is just not possible that after saving the hostage's life, the captain of the Bainbridge is now deferring to his CIC - because he knows that the really important thing was saving the hostage, and not what obama gets to falsely claim?

Deny ignorance ...

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

If you handle every situation cowboy style, the next time, the criminals will raise the stake and the ransom. Believe you me, you don't want to go there, especially if you only have your big mouth to back you up.

So, instead we should just appease and apologize whenever we find ourselves in a tough situation? Ever studied the historical success rate for appeasers? You really should ...

Originally posted by Ismail
Bah, leave it Benoni, they believe that somalis (sorry "raggies" was it ?) represent without exeption "the axis of evil". The only good somalis are the one's who just shut up and starve to death.
They can't grasp the fact that the western world has bled africa dry, which has inevitably lead to warlords, attacks on humanitarian workers, poverty and crime.
..
They cannot understand that killing has consequences, and that the more they kill, the more will seek to destroy them. They welcome this, because human life has no value to them if it does not fly an american flag.

Absolutely TRUE!! PEOPLE ARE STILL LISTENING TO THEIR STUPID PROPAGANDA MACHINE OF THE US MEDIA - WHEN WILL YOU EVER LEARN TO LOOK FOR YOURSELVES??

The Somalian people have been starved to death - they have no navy, there is NO-ONE to protect their international fishing waters - or prevent TOXIC WASTE being dumped in their waters.

THE PIRATES ARE THE #ING HEROES! AGAIN YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED, BUT YOU ARE SO USED TO LISTENING TO MAINSTREAM MEDIA - YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

Those 'PIRATES' are the local fishermen - who are trying to drive off illegal boats who are fishing in their waters - also there has been dumping of TOXIC WASTE in their waters - NO ONE KNOWS OR CARES ABOUT THEM.

Who will protect their rights - when the media machine turns them into pirates? Why? So they can continue to use their coastline to dump their crap.

The average age of a Somalian is 17 yrs, their life expectancy is under 50yrs and their GDP is US$600 annually. Their entire naval capacity is 1(one) merchant ship - no military vessels at all. What the hell can these guys do to protect themselves? Their territorial waters extend 200 nm off their coast - but it is constantly infringed.

The Red Sea is so salty that it is hardly worth fishing, but the Somalia waters have decent fish stocks - so they are filled with illegal fishing boats - making it hard for the Somalian fishermen to survive.

To label these starving, illiterate fishermen a dangerous force is ridiculous. How about some of those nations infringing their waters either by fishing, with merchant ships carrying cargo - or worse yet dumping toxic crap start paying for what they doing?

If Obama 'dilly-dallied' then maybe it shows he has more humanity than I gave him credit for. Killing people who are pressed between piracy or starvation SHOULD pose a moral dilemma.

If the US just started to help them instead of shooting them it would make a huge difference - how about the US putting a few gun boats in the waters here and chasing off all the illegal fishermen. The fishermen would have fish in their waters again - and the rest of the world could stop calling them pirates.

still no reply to my quote from The Times, which makes a mockery of the right wing slant to the thread?
Didnt think so...

reply to post by Jazzyguy



reply to post by benoni



Sorry if I don’t give others credit as I only read the 1st and last pages of this thread.
I didn’t want to wade through all the BS to get to the end.
These are the only 2 signs of reason and sanity I have seen.

Face it you guys. For the next 8 years you are going to make stuff up to try and prove that Obama is a loser.
He didn’t do the left wing or the right wing thing. He simply made the right call.
My god. Is he going to have to personally blow some muggers brains out before you give him ANY respect?
As much as I would love to see Bush / Cheney crucified for war crimes I respect the man Obama for not pursuing it.
That man has shown more strength of character in 3 months than the entire last 8 years of B&C. But that’s just my opinion.
A few days ago it was “Obama’s taking our guns away” and it ends up being one idiot unit commander at one base and seems to have something to do with idiot soldiers discharging their personal weapons where they shouldn’t. And Obama gets the grief.

reply to post by Amagnon

I've never heard such total crap in my life. In the first place, the proper slang term for Somalians is "skinny's."

In the second place, these people do what they want to in their country. If they're too stupid, lazy, brutal, or have a negative factor in the morals bucket, to correct these matters for themselves, then it's their fault, their problem.

They breed like rats, the don't produce diddly squat, and it is my fervent hope that in the future, many more of your supposed pirate "heroes" have been exterminated.

I find it interesting to read some of the comments on the pirate topic. It never ceases to amaze me how someone can feel sorry for a criminal who tries to rob or kill them, or hold them for ranson. To them, it's the United States fault that the pirates seized the ship. The lowely pirates are suffering so much because of the US. Give me a break. That same logic leads to the idea of inviting a crook to steal from you, and assault you because society failed him somewhere.
The pirates are criminals, and they need to be treated as such. If you feel sorry for them, invite one to come live with you, and sponser him for US citizenship. Otherwise shut up about the sad pirates. They are criminals, nothing more.

Originally posted by benoni
still no reply to my quote from The Times, which makes a mockery of the right wing slant to the thread?
Didnt think so...

No, it makes a mockery of your belief in fairy tales.

Some statements are so deluded and baseless as to to defy logical reply.

I will buy you a ticket to Hararhadere orMogadishu if you will stay there.

jw

reply to post by benoni


I just thought of something. (Earthshattering, no?)

You have property. I want property. Life has dealt me a poor hand. Yours is better.

Send your property to me now. Don't make me come take it.

U2U with your confirmation info. I need your stuff more than you do.
Do I have to come and get it? Send it now.

It is only fair: you have it, I don't, I want it.

Send it now.

I'll find you.

jw

reply to post by dooper


Your product of your stupid media and totally blind to it. I hold some hope that Americans will realize they live in a fantasy land created by a combination of their media and their own stupidity.

Somalian water is being plundered - I hope they don't go quietly into the night.

People who are in extreme difficulty do extreme things - people often have no idea what hardship is - but I think the world is changing, and a lot more people are going to be doing extreme things in future - and then justifying their actions.

Edited out some nasty stuff I put in when my blood was up.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon

You don't know me. You don't know my history, my life, my values, or my experiences. You have no idea of what I'm a product of.

And I really don't care what you would claim to be, as I already know what you are.

However, as an American, I personally don't give a tinker's damn what you think about Americans, because you have exhibited a complete ignorance of a moral center, right versus wrong, and your hopes for more American deaths is quite frankly, filled with asshole-ishness.

I would hope the civilized world would engage and destroy these pirates where they find them.

The SEALS proved that they know exactly how to handle them. They just need the command for "weapons free," and the freedom to go take some scalps.

Lets these pirate-skinnies become the prey for a change.




[edit on 21-4-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Amagnon

 

I've never heard such total crap in my life. In the first place, the proper slang term for Somalians is "skinny's."

In the second place, these people do what they want to in their country. If they're too stupid, lazy, brutal, or have a negative factor in the morals bucket, to correct these matters for themselves, then it's their fault, their problem.

They breed like rats, the don't produce diddly squat, and it is my fervent hope that in the future, many more of your supposed pirate "heroes" have been exterminated.

Actually there are only about 9 million Somalians left - so your assertion they breed like rats could be more properly attributed to Americans.

Americans - who breed like rats (there are 300 million of them), and the correct term for Americans is '#ferbrains'. They don't produce anything but debt - nuclear wastelands, and reduction in intelligence conversing with them. They condemn entire countries as terrorists, but are quick to apply torture if it suits their purposes. Their armed forces are murderers - killing innocents and attacking only with massive superiority in numbers and arms, if resistance is met - they try and talk their way out if it. Yet they are so violent that their own country has locked up more of them, and they have more gun related homicides than any other country in the world. They are so stupid that China, where English is a second language has more English speakers with higher literacy than them. Additionally, their media is so biased that it could more properly be described as propaganda - but they believe everything it says, even when it is in complete opposition to a retards level of common sense.

In contrast to the Somalians - who engage in piracy to feed themselves and protect their territorial waters, America kills on a massive scale for profit. I know who I believe has the moral ascendancy.

Your vitriolic racist hate speech is serving your country well - I hope you realize everything I have said is true - but that people still extend mercy to you wherever you go in the world, although the US is the most hated country on Earth - even among your allies we barely tolerate you because you are too cowardly or stupid to act against your own government, who having enslaved most of the world is now turning to the enslavement of its own people.

You should pray to god that other nations have more mercy to you in future, than you have shown in your racist, ignorant and bigoted response - because without their aid - you may not survive.

I believe you truly are going to suffer greatly - and I had strong feelings to offer assistance - but now, if you are an example - then you deserve your fate and I could almost wash my hands of you without remorse.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon


Man, did you not just fling a bunch of racist hatred toward the citizens of the U.S? This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Oh yes, we have deep problems and having you rub them in our face and belittle us shows your personal prejudices. Sounds like you've been fed a big dose of propaganda also.

If you think we haven't made great contributions to the world I am sure you are more one-sided than the poster you bash. He has a reason for his anger. A criminal act was perpetrated against our country endangering the lives of servicemen. You might disagree, that is your right. I did not appreciate the huge condemnation that went along with it.

When you start name calling, you might want to choose your words carefully as it reflects greatly upon yourself. Pompous arrogance never looks good on anyone.

I don't care who you are. No one has the market on truth cornered.

This thread needs a big [HOAX] label on it.

SEAL EMAIL CRITICIZING OBAMA IS BOGUS

There's an email whipping around the internet, supposedly written by a Navy SEAL who complains that President Obama delayed decisions to deploy the Navy SEALs because he wanted to resolve the hostage standoff with Captain Richard Phillips "peacefully."

There's enough background detail in the email to suggest it was in fact written by a SEAL, but several senior military officials who were involved in the direct planning and execution of the mission -- including in consultations with the White House and President Obama -- tell NBC News the claims are bogus.

source

That's the latest. Just another desperate attempt to smear the President and provide right-wing talking points for the next week or so.

reply to post by Amagnon


You know, you're right. They do breed like rats, and it's probably partly America's fault. By sending them food, we enabled them to overpopulate their resources. Now we should cut off that food, starvation will cull the population, and things will be as nature intended - fewer skinny's.

And as far as Americans using superior technology to kill their enemies - well cry me a river.

Americans are all about efficiency. That would include our approach to warfare as well. As I write this, I can feel the "thumps" of bombs and ordinance being tested on a distant test range.

God, I love it!

Those who are militarily inferior should leave us the hell alone.