Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


How many healthy mothers are aborting healthy babies?
(I would like you to post linkage to support how many women having abortions fall under this category.)

You claim women with medical problems, dealing with issues of incest, or women who have been raped are extreme examples.

Could you cite some actual abortion studies that show abortions for such cases are really as infrequent as you claim?

Can you give tangible evidence that a decent percentage of churches that protest abortion help babies and mothers who decide to carry the pregnancy to term? Can you find any that support birth control and sexual education so pregnancy is avoided to begin with?

reply to post by jasonjnelson

You not only edit your posts, which makes it easy to seem like you were "saying it all along",

You're really paranoid! That "dogging" comment WAS in my original post. The edited part was the "by the way" and I thought you could easily understand that comment was added. You really have no grounds to say I lack reading comprehension now...

Edit: To clarify so jason doesn't whine.



[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


One clarification, and then you will get a very, very detailed answer in the morning;
Why would you, especially after I made a very clear, and irrefutable, point that more responsible pre-planning, (as far as one's ability to handle he possible results of an act before actually engaging in said act) would result in a huge drop in the need for abortions, negate the efforts churches put into abstinence programs? does that not count as pregnancy prevention?

Please just edit your list, as opposed to a new post.

Thanks, Jason

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I, Like many others, respond to a post, and then move on. I cannot stand people editing after the fact, as it can be said that one did not answer something, or ignored, or things fall out of order.

It's the one big rule on the member debate threads.

but I am willing to drop all this, and I will just answer your above list in the morning. At that time, we can finish our debate.

Cheers, sleep well!

reply to post by jasonjnelson

negate the efforts churches put into abstinence programs? does that not count as pregnancy prevention?

You do realize by preventative efforts I meant things that actually work? Abstinence doesn’t work. Those programs are part of the reason for the US having the highest teen pregnancy rate. I meant preventative efforts that focus on the reality of the situation, that offer birth control and sexual education.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by jasonjnelson

I cannot stand people editing after the fact,

I do it mainly for grammar reasons. But sometimes I forget to state something and don’t wish to waste room with another post. Usually people see the edited version before replying, and if they don’t I’ve never come across someone who got paranoid and upset about it.

It's the one big rule on the member debate threads.

Says who? I see moderators doing so constantly, even editing out their entire post sometimes without explanation. That’s part of why we have the edit button, to use it!

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Hey I decided to do one for you. I'm not so bad right?

Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
www.abortionno.org...

Considering there are 42 million abortions a year (see link for verification), that means 420,000 abortions occur because of rape or incest. 2,520,000 occur because of health risk.

It's true that 93% doing it for social reasons is a pretty big number, but I don't think you can ignore the over 2 million women who do it for other reasons (over 400,000 of them being rape victims or doing so because of a baby conceived through incest).

What do you say to those women? Stay out of this conversation because you're an extreme example? Obviously there are a lot of women who deal with these extremes, ignoring them is not realistic, they are part of this issue.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

As I said earlier I know two women who got pregnant though rape so I am unsure how accurate that is. Also the day after pill is often given to rape victims so that might account for the low number as well. Many christians consider "plan b" abortion so the 1% number would have to include the day after pill wouldn't it? I doubt they would factor that into their stats.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by riley]

reply to post by riley


No, the 1% only includes abortions, not the day after pill. I think that site also has stats on the day after pill though. You're right, that probably does attribute to lower numbers, not just with rape, but in general.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


the member debate threads do not allow for editing. I was saying that if this is supposed to be so "serious", so much so that my credibility is attacked, then I think it fair to point out some rules.

As for abstinence not working, how can one get pregnant without having sex?

Sex is a conscious decision, except for rape and other obvious objections.

If someone does anything, anything, they should consider the consequences of said actions.

They should be prepared for every consequence that comes with those actions, otherwise they should not engage in said action.

Engaging in any action, and then having the consequence present themselves, and then claiming that you are not able to take responsibility for those consequences?

That means you shouldn't engage in that action, should you?

Having an abortion, if you are healthy and capable of carrying that baby to term with your health intact, is murder for the sake of convenience.

Is that so hard to get?

If Susie tells her parents she is going to Jane's for the night, and instead goes to Johnny's and engages in sex, which results in a pregnancy, what is your suggestion?
That she should get an abortion out of fear of the consequences?
That she not take responsibility, for fear that she might have to confront her actions?
I would think it rather obvious I also place an equal responsibility on the male.

If you can't accept the fact that you may get pregnant if you have sex, then you shouldn't be having it.
If you engage in sex, knowing you may get pregnant, and are resigned to having a pregnancy if all of your contraceptives and the morning-after pill fails? Well, then you shouldn't be engaging in the act of sex.
Why? because I think of a fetus as having a darn good chance at coming to term, and therefore is tantamount to being a baby.
Therefore, if you can't take a baby into your life, or can't deal with the idea of adoption for your offspring, then you shouldn't be having sex!

It is a conscious act, okay?

I am not telling people not to have sex, just to understand that being able to handle the consequences of an action dictates our readiness to commit that act.

Not the other way around.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Maybe you should tend to YOUR own affairs

This attempt at having a Superior opinion is total nonsense

The question to abort or not to abort is the women decision only.

Live your own life,

reply to post by jasonjnelson

As for abstinence not working, how can one get pregnant without having sex?

That’s the thing, despite being taught to not people do, and if they don’t know how to properly protect themselves a lot, a lot, and a lot of mistakes happen. Including pregnancy and STDs spreading.

If someone does anything, anything, they should consider the consequences of said actions.

The thing is kids who are taught abstinence do not even understand the consequences of their actions, they are taught with ignorance, therefore they are ignorant.

Abstinence programs do not work. They just don’t. No matter how great not having sex is. Yes, I’m all for teaching teens to not have sex in their teens, but there are plenty who will, as has been shown in reality, and they need to know about the dangers and ways to protect from them.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Thank you for doing the research on the facts you asked for.

So my stats were correct.

93% of abortions are for social reasons?

37,200,000 babies killed last year?

Can we talk about that number?

Setting up laws to allow for those other 7% seems to make far more sense than condoning the murder of the other 93%, (under the guise of protecting the 7%.)

But that requires making the leap that the potential of that fetus gives it the same rights and protections it deserves.

One that I was trying to encourage when I started this thread in the first place.

P.S. I will get some facts about these stats as well, as I want to make sure we have some other numbers to compare them to. 40 million abortions a year means that close to 20% of all women are having an abortion every year?
In 5 years, statistically, every woman has had an abortion in this country? that can't be right...

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I attended an abstinence program as a youth.

Pregnancy and STD's were a major part of this education.

Sorry, don't buy that argument.

edit to say that I was not attacking your stats in the post above, merely mentioning how off that seems. I realize you did not just grab those out of thin air.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by jasonjnelson]

reply to post by jasonjnelson

So my stats were correct.

For rape yes, you did not give any other stats or say that 6% have to do with medical, in fact I think you said the other 99% were socially influenced.


And yes we can discuss those numbers, but I'm not going to seperate the other 7% from the debate. If you wish to take this issue serious you can not disregard those over 2 million women.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

 

I attended an abstinence program as a youth.

Pregnancy and STD's were a major part of this education.

Sorry, don't buy that argument.

I'm glad, but most aren't. Do you honestly assume your one experience settles an issue, lol.

Did they teach about birth control?

reply to post by jasonjnelson

40 million abortions a year means that close to 20% of all women are having an abortion every year?
In 5 years, statistically, every woman has had an abortion in this country? that can't be right...

It's not just for this country. They are international stats I believe.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


You CAN disregard the others, as I am SPECIFICALLY talking about the other 93%.

And medical implies that the health of the mother is at risk, and that is something that was being done years before abortion was legal in the manner it is today. So therefore, those abortions are not included in the statistics that I am bringing to light.

I have never made an argument against any of those 7%, have I?

reply to post by jasonjnelson


So you agree with their abortions?

Some info on Abstinence programs. The worst are Abstinence-only (programs that are not abstinence driven, but preach that it is better to obstain from sex until adulthood and in developed relationships (not necessarily marriage) are far more successful).

Summary of Results
Evaluation of these 11 programs showed few short-term benefits and no lasting, positive impact. A few programs showed mild success at improving attitudes and intentions to abstain. No program was able to demonstrate a positive impact on sexual behavior over time. A description follows of short- and long-term impacts, by indicator.
Conclusion
Abstinence-only programs show little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they show some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. Importantly, only in one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in delaying the initiation of sex; none of these programs demonstrates evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth exposed to the programs or any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.
www.advocatesforyouth.org...

[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Figured.

Although I would say that we should stick to U.S. numbers?

Socially, it is the only fair way to discuss the subject, unless you object?

I mean, culturally, out of wedlock mothers are more acceptable here in this country, therefore less of an influence on socially acceptable reasoning for the abortion than a person from, say, the middle east?

Meaning, you might get stoned to death there, but here you might have to deal with shunning from your family. (to use my earlier example, they might be pissed you lied about who you were hanging out with, etc.)


Therefore the argument for abortion is even more drastically reduced.
That is not to say some girls might be eligible for some sort of abuse.
I am not trying to just gloss over that, either.
But it makes an argument again for the whole, don't have sex unless you can deal with the results of your actions!