Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

Don't get me wrong.......... wait, first off, i read the first few pages not realizing there were 20+ pages, sorry......

Don't get me wrong, if a sane female get's pregnant, and has every means and opportunity to have a child, i'm for that, but if she want to get rid of it just cause she doesn't want it, that's not cool.

But I think you'll find that most that do oust it, do so cause they don't have the means to raise a child.

BUT, I am also VERY supportive of carrying the baby to term and putting it up for adoption as a means of the child living, and the mother not having the responsibility of raising it.

That should be the first decision.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Aermacchi
I doubt you could do that

You don't know me very well, if you're ever in AZ and want to come throw a rock at my head, shoot me a U2U. You're the one who threatened me with violence first, for the record.

I see you are here just to troll me now and have no arguments to support abortion as you said you haven't watched the video so you really have demonstrated nothing but a willingness to argue and no ability to argue

No, I actually never said I didnt watch the video, i did in fact. And that is explained quite thoroughly in the article i linked, you should read it. I know, you have no use for fancy colleges when you have ancient dogma.

I apologize for the mis understanding about not watching the video and I stand corrected. That was an analogy I threw out there off the cuff and was not a threat. I don't make threats I usually just hit right away.

You ought to be careful what you wish for, you might just get more than you think you can handle. 'You live in Az?

What a coincedence!

Hey now that we have shared some personal tragedy's it be cool to meet some other ATS's people.

If you are ever near Central and Clarendon north of the Park Central Mall I hang out at the Golds Gym there usually every evening. They haVE A KILLER sandwich shop nearbye with great mocha latte's and a starbucks at the mall


[edit on 27-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by jasonjnelson

 

Ok.

Do you think it was a walk in the park for her?

I don't know what kind of woman she was, but an abortion is not an easy decision for most normal women. Some are heartless enough to not think twice about it, but for most, it is the hardest decision they will ever make and it is not made lightly.

Some in this thread are acting like these women are the devil and evil and need to be exterminated from the planet. That's not how it is for most.

I sure hope not. I think it is a tragic circumstance to be in for anyone facing it but once I was told I have a child living and is on the way to being born, I wanted that child to be born.

alive.

It was not an issue for me and not an option to end the life of something alive already and on it's way to meeting the both of us for the first time.

I offered to adopt it and she wouldn't have to pay child support or nothing, I begged and pleaded and was pretty pathetic I begged so hard. I couldn't believe I was interested in someone I was considering a more serious relationship, that she could do this even without any of the usual arguments I had made moot by my offer, it was to no avail. NONE.

You think it is hard for woman to make that choice?

I would have traded her hard decision for my feelings of helpless hopelessness any day. That decision was not a decision for her to make in my view. It was one that was already made and desperate to stay alive in spite of not knowing his own mother wanted to take that away from all of us and what ever he could have been,,, I bet he wouold have been great at

I just know it

reply to post by Aermacchi

You think it is hard for woman to make that choice?

I know it is. You never can because you are not a woman. You can never know the worry, the anger, the pain, the horror, the denial, the guilt, the shame, and finally the acceptance that leads up to the decision. You can never know the emptiness, the loathing, the questioning, the supreme guilt, the frustration, the anger, the denial, the shame, and finally the acceptance that comes after the decision and the act. Nowhere in there is "easiness" mentioned or felt.

And, I as a woman, can never know how you felt as a man with no say in the decision. My heart goes out to you and what you felt and still feel. I don't know your ex and what kind of person she was, so I can't speak to her feelings and how she dealt with her choice or how she deals with the fall out today. I can only speak to me and mine.

Everyone has to live with their choices, their decisions, and the fall out of both. We all have to deal with them the best way we know how. Painting everyone in broad, general strokes doesn't work in this situation. It is hard. It isn't easy. There are exceptions to that, I am sure, but you need to realize that for most women, this is the hardest thing they will ever do. And, they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. It is not done out of spite or hatred or for convienence (for most).

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by Aermacchi

 

You think it is hard for woman to make that choice?

I know it is. You never can because you are not a woman. You can never know the worry, the anger, the pain, the horror, the denial, the guilt, the shame, and finally the acceptance that leads up to the decision. You can never know the emptiness, the loathing, the questioning, the supreme guilt, the frustration, the anger, the denial, the shame, and finally the acceptance that comes after the decision and the act. Nowhere in there is "easiness" mentioned or felt.

And, I as a woman, can never know how you felt as a man with no say in the decision. My heart goes out to you and what you felt and still feel. I don't know your ex and what kind of person she was, so I can't speak to her feelings and how she dealt with her choice or how she deals with the fall out today. I can only speak to me and mine.

Everyone has to live with their choices, their decisions, and the fall out of both. We all have to deal with them the best way we know how. Painting everyone in broad, general strokes doesn't work in this situation. It is hard. It isn't easy. There are exceptions to that, I am sure, but you need to realize that for most women, this is the hardest thing they will ever do. And, they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. It is not done out of spite or hatred or for convienence (for most).

Well last time I talked to her she had got married and has two kids she loves and adores, she wished they had my hair LOL.

She called after I had not seen her for many years,. she moved to Boston and was doing well but the reason she called me was interesting. I wish I could tell you the details but it was one of those kind of happy endings that taught us both a lesson about this topic but to nutshell the cental message was that she was made aware of just how precious life is and how stupid we are in our youth to make such life or death decisions.

I had lost one before out of the womb ( Car accident ) and it had more meaning for me in that way. I am gratefull my mother was not only brought up to believe Abortion is wrong but to my Dad also who made making such a hard choice, not so hard by marrying my mom with the intention of havng a family.

Those old fashioned values are rare

dying from a disease called

Progress

Originally posted by Aermacchi
You ought to be careful what you wish for, you might just get more than you think you can handle. 'You live in Az?

What a coincedence!

Hey now that we have shared some personal tragedy's it be cool to meet some other ATS's people.

If you are ever near Central and Clarendon north of the Park Central Mall I hang out at the Golds Gym there usually every evening. They haVE A KILLER sandwich shop nearbye with great mocha latte's and a starbucks at the mall

Wow, total coincidence. I work RIGHT THERE. I wasn't aware of the golds there, I see some weightloss gym across from the good egg when i get food from the qdoba, but not a golds, i work out at the golds on the 101 and thunderbird. I'm at park central EVERY day.
[edit on 27-3-2009 by 27jd]

[edit on 27-3-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd
I gotta get outta work now, be back later.

Talk to ya soon...

You are at work! HA HA aight, get back on later take care

- Aer

Originally posted by 27jd

Wow, total coincidence. I work RIGHT THERE. I wasn't aware of the golds there, I see some weightloss gym across from the good egg when i get food from the qdoba, but not a golds, i work out at the golds on the 101 and thunderbird. I'm at park central EVERY day.

OMG Lots of offices by park central, I was eating mexican tonight! MY GF's cooking ROCKS! you ever go to Macayos? I tried it once, too heavy for me. Im a check out some your other posts see what else we have in common.


101 Thunderbird? that east or west of Black Canyon or 17?

Originally posted by Aermacchi
101 Thunderbird? that east or west of Black Canyon or 17?

yeah, i work in that area, the macayos is on central, i like qdoba better.....the 101 is west, the new stadium at the 101 and glendale...

small world, and if you were not directly threatening me like i gathered, then i take back my spine comment, lol...i am quick to anger but would rather get along in the end...we both have our reasons for our stance on this issue, like just about everybody else...maybe one day there will be a solution that everybody can feel comfortable with, until then, the debate rages on...gotta go for now...

Hey jasonjnelson I'm disappointed that you ignored my last post (and here I thought you would bring out all those facts of yours for me to look at):

But I noticed that no one will actually deal with my facts or arguments.

What facts or argument? So far I've seen no facts from you. I countered your argument several pages back and you did not even bother to respond to several of my counters or my first reply to you. Where have you been?

infanticide

Show me one law in the US that supports infanticide. You won't find one. Just because you believe abortion is infanticide does not make it so.

As for Aermacchi: I'm not sure what gibberish you wrote me this time because I can only see your post through other people's replies but you're wasting your energy with me. I will never make the mistake of debating you again.

reply to post by skeptic1


Of course it's not a walk, and I would never call a woman the devil for getting pregnant, so let's both ignore those that do!

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


the "born alive" act.
Illinois state senate.
Supported by only one person.
Barrack Obama.

If you wish to follow the discussion, read what everyone writes.
I am not a parrot, and I owe you no regurgitation.

You go on, keep chasing whatever allows you to feel this way, as it's obvious that our interpretation on the validity of an unborn child's claim to life, as well as all rights pertaining, are more than varying.
It seems to me that you would rather argue over my terms, and verbiage, than actually consider what I asked.

You don't want to debate an issue, which is healthy women aborting healthy babies, etc.

You just want to argue.

I won't put you on ignore, but I can ignore your obvious incompetence.

Thanks for playing, see the hostess on your way out to collect your prizes!

reply to post by jasonjnelson


the "born alive" act.
Illinois state senate.
Supported by only one person.
Barrack Obama.
Actually it was an act that Obama did not support because physicians are already required to use life-saving measures when fetuses are born alive during abortions. Do you even know what you’re talking about?

You don't want to debate an issue, which is healthy women aborting healthy babies, etc.

Why don’t you show us some facts on this issue instead of just rambling about it? You make a lot of claims that you do not bother to support. I’m simply asking for you to support them, which you have yet to do. You constantly ignore and side step my arguments and then you claim that you have already proposed a factual, triumphant argument.

Stop claiming that no one is addressing your argument or facts, that’s all I’m asking. I addressed your argument and you ignored several of my counter arguments. And you’ve produced no facts.




[edit on 27-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by jasonjnelson

I am not a parrot, and I owe you no regurgitation.

Never asked for such a thing, I asked you to either respond to my arguments or to stop claiming that no one had responded to yours.

I won't put you on ignore, but I can ignore your obvious incompetence.

Now I'm incompetent because you can't support your claims and refuse to answer my reasonable responses? Glad to see you aren't throwing stones...

[edit on 27-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Okay Rapin-

What facts would you like?

If your google isn't working, and you expect me to take my time to look up things you demand, then what is it?

(Stop stamping your feet, Varuca.)

I stated a couple of opinions, and then some other general knowledge statements.
You have even blocked another member, making me have to play telephone.

(Relax, I'm getting to it...)

So please, tell me what facts I claimed, that you consider to be out of the general knowledge arena.

Was it the use of the word infanticide?
You tried to paint me in a corner on that one, huh?
Tried to tell me I had to provide "proof" of legislation or blah blah blah...

Infanticide in the context of which I used it, was a word adoption.

I consider it to be infanticide. As in tantamount to...

Does that register with you?

I stated my opinions on multiple aspects of this issue, and gave many arguments for what I believe to be a lack of maturity and responsibility on the part of my neighbor.
I even defended, for reasons I still can't understand, a statement that someone made saying "christians protest, then abandon the baby", by giving a very easy to find fact;
Churches actually do give money. Why would I even have to prove that? (google, seriously folks)

That due to the overwhelming odds of coming to term, a third trimester (and it has a really good chance in the second trimester) pregnancy should be judged on it's potential, not as some cyst on a woman's uterus.
See there? I know what a cyst is, but I'm trying to make a point that there is a difference in tissues my friend.

That those of you who support abortion, (again, we are not talking about extreme cases) should be aware of what is really going on there.

If you watched the video, and still don't feel that a pro-life argument holds water, then please move along.

I don't want to ram it down your throat.

Think of me as a billboard on the highway of life.

Don't believe me, as far as my proposed intentions?
How many of my threads have been about abortion?

Yeah, thought so.

So you are here now, and you either believe that I have no merit, or you have only skimmed my posts. Either way, I am not playing to an audience of one.

But here is a freebie, until you get back to me on that list you feel I owe you. (btw, please hyphen your bullet points, as I don't want to forget any.)

Here is a fairly unbiased account of the bill that would have passed.
I am not accusing Obama of anything, (blah blah blah) I am only pointing out that the need for such a bill exists, blah blah, go read it yourself cause I'm tired.

So you only asked for something that you yourself claimed needed a "fact" check, all because your reading COMPREHENSION is lacking.
Get over it, and get back to me on that list.
But realize, If I never claimed it, or if you don't ask nicely, (or if you have to google just one step), I am not addressing it, okay?

Cheers




[edit on 28-3-2009 by jasonjnelson]

reply to post by jasonjnelson

So please, tell me what facts I claimed, that you consider to be out of the general knowledge arena.

You make a lot of claims about healthy mothers aborting healthy babies. I would like you to post linkage to support how many women having abortions fall under this category. Also you claim women with medical problems, dealing with issues of incest, or women who have been raped are extreme examples. Please cite some actual abortion studies that show abortions for such cases are really as infrequent as you claim.

I consider it to be infanticide. As in tantamount to...

Does that register with you?

If I consider the word “love” to mean “sex” that does not mean love=sex. You were ignorant and used a word that was incorrect and dramatic. I called you out on this. Instead of just admitting this word was incorrect or dramatic you decided to throw an internet tizzy fit about it. Well okay, if you choose to use a word in the wrong context then go right ahead. Keep thinking whatever you like. You say you want to hear from the pro-choice people but you can’t even handle this one little instance of fact. You can’t even handle accepting something’s true definition.

"christians protest, then abandon the baby", by giving a very easy to find fact; Churches actually do give money.
Why would I even have to prove that? (google, seriously folks)

Because the churches I have researched that do these protest do not help the mothers. So far you have yet to find me one that does, despite your claims. I e-mailed the churches you gave me and they do not mention it on their websites and have yet to e-mail me back. I’m not saying no churches help these women, but the vast majority of them do not (and do not support preventative pregnancy care), and you drastically stretch the truth, claiming the opposite without any tangible evidence.

That those of you who support abortion, (again, we are not talking about extreme cases) should be aware of what is really going on there.

Refuse to be aware of what is going on? You’re the one who refuses to look at the scope of the situation and accept the reality. You won’t discuss all the reasons why women have abortions and you refused to comment on the information I posted about unwanted children with any realistic alternative solutions and you refused to accept the conclusion of the data and the case it makes for abortions. Believe what you want, believe that extreme situations are not necessary to discuss, but then don’t turn around and be a complete hypocrite by claiming that we are refusing to be “aware”.

Don't believe me, as far as my proposed intentions?
How many of my threads have been about abortion?

Yeah, thought so.

And that takes away from the fact that you made this one and call people who support abortion supporters of infanticide?

So you only asked for something that you yourself claimed needed a "fact" check, all because your reading COMPREHENSION is lacking.

Stop insulting me and grow a pair. If you are afraid to admit you can’t back up your claims that’s fine, but there is no need to continue being so immaturely defensive.

As for the Obama thing I think we should move on from that. Clearly you do not understand the bill because you did not even realize that he voted against it, not for it, before I corrected you. I’ve already stated why he voted against the bill. The bill also entailed measures that could have kept women from aborting fetuses if they were dealing with a high-risk pregnancy. Don’t assume that you can just glance at an issue and know why people opposed or supported it and all the dirty, intricate details.

If you watched the video, and still don't feel that a pro-life argument holds water, then please move along.

The video doesn’t produce a strong argument. It’s not intended to; it’s made to get knee-jerk reactions and to appeal to people emotionally, not logically.

And sorry but I feel no need to “move along”. If you do not wish to further discuss this issue then fine, but I’ll stay right here and discuss it with others.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I repeat. For the sake of quoting, please hyphen your list of "facts " that you find too difficult to look up on google.
I will take the time to answer them for you.

And if I consider a "fetus" to have the same equivalent status as an infant, then I find it fair to assess abortion as infanticide. And i am nowhere near the first to make this comparison, making the adoption of the phrase to be a valid one.

Now type away, I await your response. I may go to bed, as I got very little sleep tonight, but you will get a response within a short amount of time, okay?

Thanks, Jason

reply to post by jasonjnelson

And i am nowhere near the first to make this comparison

Oh yes, there were plenty of ignorant and dramatic people before you that wanted to make a point with that word, that doesn't excuse that it is not used correctly.

Why should I hyphen them? I stated very clearly in that post what facts I wanted from you and yet you still insult me and think I have comprehension problems? Don't answer them because they aren't hyphened, I don't care. It only proves to me that you're dogging your own statements and why.

By the way: are you going to reply to the other parts of the post or are you over trying to have a discussion in which things are not going your way?

[edit on 28-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


OH MAN. you are the one who wants specific answers. I want VERY specific questions, so you can't wiggle out of the facts I present you. Take it or leave it, I'm offering you a fair deal.
Seriously. Screw the hyphens, just give me a list, without added comments, okay?

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


and it's bad form to add to your posts without pointing out that you added.

I'm not trying to wiggle out of anything.

You not only edit your posts, which makes it easy to seem like you were "saying it all along", but you have gone so far off of any topic I had made in the first place, that I am not going to start some sort of political/ blah blah blah thread. You are killing me.

Just list the friggin questions man!