Finally hitting middle America

Originally posted by on_yur_6
If our armed forces ever turn on the population you can bet a vast majority will abandon their post. I served and I love my country but I can guarantee you I wouldn't turn a gun on a fellow citizen because my commander-in-chief told me to.

I'd like to believe that, I really would. But you are talking about common sense in a situation where logic and "reality" would be blown right out of the water. The first step in any good crackdown is to demonize one group, while locking down and scaring the sh*t out of the other for "their own protection."

A person is basically good and just... people, on the other hand, are stupid and behave irrationally. For examples of how those in authority can, and will, act against their fellow citizens, just look to history...

Japanese internment camps
the violence in the south during the 60s
the shootings at Kent State

Just a quick gloss, but an example of what usually happens. Never assume that the cops or the military will lay down for, or join up with, an armed populace. They'll be told some reason (a very convincing one you can bet) why it will be a good idea to shoot us, or protect us from ourselves.

reply to post by larphillips


All of your examples are on a small scale though. To get a feel for what this scenario would be like, go back to the Civil War. You can expect something similar if it happens again. Large geographical areas would begin to form up as one. This country is already split by how the populace votes. The high population areas on the coasts and the more massive amount of the population spread through the fly over states. Those that are preconditioned to live off of Uncle Sam in the urban areas will line up with the coasts. What portion of the country do you think is more heavily armed and prepared to take care of themselves?

Also remember our armed forces are a melting pot also. Believe me when I say many would abandon their posts immediately if it came down to attacking their own citizens. Just ask your son, daughter, husband or wife that is currently serving.

Back on topic though. I checked a Walmart here at lunch and the only non-shotgun ammo left was one box of 38 special, and a few .22 CCI and .17 rounds! I asked when their shipment was due and the guy just shook his head and laughed.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by on_yur_6]

wideners.com has 7.62x39 Wolf for $6.59 / box of 20 or $276 / 1000 rounds.

That sure beats the $17.00 I paid for the very last box of 20 at Wallyworld last week.

Originally posted by larphillips
wideners.com has 7.62x39 Wolf for $6.59 / box of 20 or $276 / 1000 rounds.

That sure beats the $17.00 I paid for the very last box of 20 at Wallyworld last week.

Outstanding, I'll check that out tonight. I have a lot of HP but need more FMJ and SP.

It's pretty scarce here in Atlanta, too. I'll say this, I wish I owned a gun store right about now. Gun shops are making a KILLING these days. The shops around here lately are packed on weekends- full of dudes stocking up on guns and ammo. This says one thing for sure- a lot of people are concerned about defending themselves and their families. It does seem that there is a lot of concern about future availability. The wind has been blowing for quite a while, if you've even been halfway paying attention, you know this has been coming.
I think most of this is out of fear of new gun control laws. I seriously doubt there are govt. agents running around buying ammo from gun shops, trying to keep regular people from buying it up. If the govt. wants to keep ammunition out of our hands, they have much better ways to do it.

I'm in the middle of Oregon here and all the major stores and little guys are out of everything.

I usually can score a couple of boxes a week but it is hard to find. The clerk in Walmart laughed out loud at me today when I asked for .40 S&W after buying their last two boxes of .308...

Online places (Midway, Cabelas, ammoman, etc..) are out too it seems.

I have good stockpiles but this sucks because every time I go shooting I feel like I am depleting my supplies without knowing if resupply will be possible.

I try not to shoot more than I can find to buy.

Originally posted by big gee
Surely the logical explanation is that gun owners are just clearing the shelves as stock comes in due to the current situation,

I hear gun store ads on the radio all the time. Hurry up and buy before the govt takes away your rights !

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
I wonder if it's an unconscious hysteria that is driving ammo shortages. I wonder how many of you are white, religious, or conservative. I'm not trying to pick any fights and I'm firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment but from reading threads like these, it really does seem there is a hysteria prevalent through certain cross section of this country.

You forgot another category, we are able to read...

Ammunition Accountability Act.

New Assault Weapons Ban coming, worse than before.
( I want to know how many gangs use Winchester Mdl 94 30-30's)
(Some guns on the list where put there because they LOOKED bad)

The Blair Holt law is coming as well.

For non-gun ppl we may seem to be over reacting that is because
you are not a gun person, you do not KNOW guns, and you do
not follow the laws because you do not CARE, we do.

Good Luck to all the good ppl !

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


I don't think I could've said it better myself. But don't forget Hillary going to Mexico and stating that the USA needed to help by banning assault weapons. So, drug lords are now crossing the border to buy semi-automatic weapons? I'm thinking they are acquiring their weapons through more nefarious means! What a FING joke people.

I also heard this weekend that our government was trying to prevent the military from selling used (reloadable) brass. Fortunately someone noticed and that has been dropped. This "change" governement is doing everything it can to stop the flow of ammunition.

So now maybe some of you anti-gunners can see why there is a shortage. We are preparing for the future. After a new AWB you can be sure Obama is going to try and pass some version of that 500% tax on weapons and ammunition.

I've even started to look into casting my own bullets. It may take a while for this joker of a president to tax lead.

reply to post by Perseus Apex


Many of us have known of this for years, ever read the details on Clinton’s sale of the Naval Ship yard in San Diego California to China; ever wonder WHY top-secret satellite and electronic circuit designs were ordered ‘shared’ with Red China? The Clinton’s were begging China back then to float our debt. The depth of the acts of treason committed by our elected officials will perhaps be known only by God.

But then, when our National Park System was turned over to the United Nations’ ‘Bio Sphere’ program, those of us who pointed out the hand over were laughed at; even when we took pictures of the white UN vehicles suddenly appearing at Ranger Stations and elsewhere. You know, the ‘conspiracy theorist’ laughed to scorn campaign of the late nineties… Remember Newt Gingrich’s comment after the passage of NAFTA that “If the American people realized what a transfer of Sovereignty this act was, they would rise up and revolt"? Both parties equally full of traitors. Welcome to reality.

As for running out of ammo, let our enemies supply you when the time comes; after the opening salvo, pick up the spoils of the fight. Watching ‘Red Dawn’ and ‘Enemy of the State’ would be a good idea. GET OUT OF THE CITIES IF POSSIBLE NOW.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Merriman, we've covered this before, and your perceptions of weaponry are a bit off.

If I understand you, you suggest that the US military with their superior military hardware and weapons systems would be able to crush any militia movement in the US. Unfortunately, you fail to account for a number of things.

The US military with all those high-tech, high-dollar weapons systems are manned by US citizens.

In Laos, we in SF enjoyed a 100:1 to 150:1 kill ratio against the highly professional, highly trained NVA. Using our heads and the Montagnards.

Your perceptions of the US are mistakenly skewered. Not one militia member (any adult US citizen) is going to get on line and go toe to toe with the US military.

Guerrilla warfare to the max.

And keep in mind, there are millions and millions of former military that are now civilians. Skilled with arms, and own arms.

And one other thing you forget: Those more advanced systems can be taken and turned. In this neighborhood alone, we could put together a first rate tank crew in moments, one hell of a combat experienced platoon, and we even have F-15/16 pilots. I know two.

But the one thing you've never, ever accounted for is this:

In our country, just as in yours, those who develop new weapons systems are civilians - usually small companies. They develop highly effective weapons and systems, and only then do they approach the military.

Look up the DREAD system. Not a gun, not a machine gun. Something far more efficient. Those smart weapons with smart ammunition? Civilian.

Now just who do you think will be churning these out for the population if a need arises?

Besides, our military will not turn on the people on masse. Won't happen.

Your assumptions, bless your heart, are mistaken. Relax. We have this covered.

Originally posted by skeptic_al
reply to post by j2000

 

Sounds like somebody's git'n ready fur a war.

I didn't know it was in the constitution that the governments must make
sure adequate ammo was on the shelves at all times.

If I were you, I'd be stock'n up on food items or learn to grow your own
Monsanto seeds rather than bullets. And build a Concrete Bunker, not
to protect against Nukyellar Missiles or pesky terrorists but those crazy
neighbors. If Kali-For-Nya is any thing to go by, lots of people will have
plenty of time on their hands to build one.

Please if you plant don't use Monsanto seeds.

Monsanto is not to be trusted especailly not with anything that you are going to consume.

I would stop there but I know the routine.

www.vanityfair.com...

www.reddit.com...

www.mcspotlight.org...



[edit on 30-3-2009 by NightSkyeB4Dawn]

reply to post by projectvxn


You are for certain right that Americans for the most part are well trained and will not role over and play dead; however, most will not leave their plasma tv's and six pack UNTIL the incoming shots are on their door. The Anarchist Cook Book can still be had on file sharing P2P networks; US Army Field Manuals too.

However thermal technology is such that it is best if you get as close to dense woods or mountain ranges soon WITH AS MANY SPACE BLANKETS (placed at least 80 inches away from you body as cover in dense woods as a means to defeat look down thermal imaging sights; vegetation provides a normal heat signature for all but directly over head imaging) as possible as this is all going to blow up BEFORE early 2011.

This because everyone seems to have forgotten the United Nations Human Rights Act Clinton signed the USA up to enforce during his last term. One of its provisions is the collection of all privately held weapons by the end of 2010. This was the real reason Britain and Common Wealth nations collected all privately held firearms.

Hearing some of the comments on this tread, I would direct all to watch the You Tube videos on the New Orleans weapons collections carried out by US Army troops while people were being killed and raped at the down town stadium; the reason FEMA waited to so long to intervene, even stopping help from other states from reaching the down town victims in many cases, was that this was practice for what will now happen. Instructive reading is the US Army Field Manual on how to handle civil unrest during THE COMING ECONOMIC COLLAPSE printed in 2007 I believe; yes, coming to a town near to you soon.

[edit on 3/30/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by SGTChas


For many you are preaching to the choir. For those that are not members of the choir much of what all of us are saying is falling on deaf ears.

Remember the fable of the ant and the grasshopper?

I am afraid that the grasshoppers will be the ones either knocking on your door or on your head.

Originally posted by big gee
Surely the logical explanation is that gun owners are just clearing the shelves as stock comes in due to the current situation, or are dealers not having their orders filled ?

logic has no place in the hands of those clinging to their guns with both hands squeezed around ideals from the 1930's

Originally posted by Fremd

Originally posted by big gee
Surely the logical explanation is that gun owners are just clearing the shelves as stock comes in due to the current situation, or are dealers not having their orders filled ?

logic has no place in the hands of those clinging to their guns with both hands squeezed around ideals from the 1930's

And what ideals from the 1930's are you speaking about? There is a lot to learn from history. Unfortunately our government doesn't study history because we are about to repeat the 1930's!

I'm proud to cling to my guns. You sound a lot like our current communist leader. As a matter of fact I'm picking up another rifle tonight for deer hunting. People like myself will have the skill set and ability to weather a repeat of the 1930's.

reply to post by on_yur_6

As a matter of fact I'm picking up another rifle tonight for deer hunting. People like myself will have the skill set and ability to weather a repeat of the 1930's.

I own weapons as well.

I also hunt deer with a bow, and not a firearm, it takes a lot more skill and has a larger pay off when you succeed.

I'm talking about this old way of thinking that says you can ignore problems and they go away.

You can't.
You have to do something about them now.

reply to post by Fremd


So when you hunt with a bow, the deer you kill mysteriously have more meat? What is this bigger payoff?

Skill? Two different weapons, two different skill sets.

You want skill? My friends and I catch wild boars with our bare hands and use a few little leopard dogs to help find them.

You and a 200-300 pound wild boar. Bare hands.

And none of this has anything to do with what's happening to America right now. If I had never met my enemies in combat and some 40-odd times prevailed, I'd not know for sure what my capabilities really were.

It would all be nothing more than speculation.

The difference is, I know.

Some say they like to learn from history.

Some like to say they learn from mistakes. I like to learn from other's mistakes.

And I think it was T.E. Lawrence that said words to the effect, "With over 2,000 year of history behind us, no significant mistake should ever be made."

Unless you're a Liberal Democrat.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by dooper]

You want skill? My friends and I catch wild boars with our bare hands and use a few little leopard dogs to help find them.

Sure thing, Napolean. I bet you hunted wolverines with your uncles 12-gauge too? GOSH!


wow, you're a tough one to stay on topic, arent ya?

I literally had to hit the back button while responding to you to remember what this thread was even about after reading your response...

Look.
People need to think with their brains, and stop listening to what Fox News and Rush Limbaugh tell them.

Barack Obama is not going to take your daddy's shotgun, but he is going to try to take the street thug's tek-9

Why?

Because a tek-9 exists for one reason: Murdering people.

I protect my household with a weapon too. A shotgun. I don't need an automatic machine gun. It's just over kill.

I hope it happens too. I really do. So i can watch red necks all over this country try to step up and speak their mind.

it's about time for another red-neck disaster where they can totally make themselves look like asses - all over again.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Fremd]

reply to post by Fremd


Yep, you can bet urass Obama isn't going to take my "daddy's shotgun."

Men and women should have access to any weapon, including those fully automatic weapons they so desire. For the stated purpose of killing people. When required.

That's the idea behind weapons. Killing. Including two-legged varmits. The very idea behind the Second Amendment was for the populace to have the very same weapons and technological advances in weaponry that our military has. Just in case.

I've come upon villages that had been unarmed, and received a visit from those who were armed. And I'll never forget it.

Those who tout selectivity when it comes to weapons others should or should not have, can take their erudite pseudo-intellectualism, and their artificially determined, arbitrarily determined "allowances" and forcefully cram them where the sun never shines.

I know another pseudo intellectual who thinks bow hunting is beyond cruel, highly inefficient, archaic, and should therefore be banned.

I know another who thinks that there is absolutely no reason on earth with modern food access, to hunt anything, at any time, whatsoever.

All are nut jobs who's personal limitations define what they THINK someone else should be allowed.