Mr. Obama ready to charge wounded vets for their care

my friend, distgustedwithhumanity,

This isn't a thread for you or I. These posters are just killing time waiting to be the next caller to say "ditto" to Rush.

There is no intellectual honesty here. I'm bailing as soon as I fire this off to you and not returning, but I will bet you a Ruth Criss steak that you aren't going to get the hard core Rush fans here to admit the truth about who Obama expects to pay for wounded vets. One side of their mouth wants...demands...smaller governmnet...and the other side wants the government to pay for things they support. Your first post was spot on. Private insurers should pony up for our troops. Get the government out of health care....hey! isn't that what the dittoheads want too? government shouldn't be in the business of providing health care. The government should make sure that the private sector don't neglect our troops because of course we know that those bastards don't want to pay for anything let alone some expensive rehabilitation for so many people...sure make the government do it! I bet insurance lobbyist are more pissed than the Vets commander or whoever the uninformed guy was. They don't want to pay for all these wounded American's. They don't want to pay for hurricane victims either...
Do you people understand that insurance companies want to make money not spend it so they want the government to take the hit on money losers! I hate that fat boy that has turned so many people's brains into mush....he is turning you into thinking like al quaeda.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
This thread right here shows one of the major things wrong with America. I just get so sickof it. You all show outrage but you are outraged about the wrong thing. Obama does not desire to take away anything from the American veteran. He is just trying to get the private insurance companies, which the soldier obviously paid into, to take on some of the costs. I personally don't even agree. The insurers shouldonly pick up costs of treatment sthat aren't due to service.

Quit turning things to fit your needs, If you argue against this it should be an argument against making insurance companies pay for veterans treatment. There is absolutely nothing in this proposal or article which says the vets will have to pay or that they won't recieve the promised care. You all created that angle.

Quit denying denying ignorance.

A moderators voice confirming the content of articles such as these these would go a long way towards stopping these false conversations.

How do you think the military is going to pay for these insurance companies? You think the budget they are alloted is going to get bigger?

Don't think so.

Watch, he will cut the military down, just like Clinton did. The fewer of us there are the cheaper it will be. We will see a cut in our pay for insurance, just like we did for our life insurance.

Why we had to pay for life insurance is beyond me.


If he passes this I will let you know how much we have pay into it.

reply to post by Res Ipsa

There is no intellectual honesty here. I'm bailing as soon as I fire this off to you and not returning, but I will bet you a Ruth Criss steak that you aren't going to get the hard core Rush fans here to admit the truth about who Obama expects to pay for wounded vets.

So people that don't agree with your liberal nonsense have no intellectual honesty?

This is EXACTLY what liberals spout, and you have just proven it. Only you liberals have the "truth", and everyone else is wrong.
People like you eat at Ruth Chris, while soldiers are eating MRE's, while being fired at, in the war Obama is trying to expand.

I'm bailing as soon as I fire this off to you and not returning

I would expect that sort of retreat from liberals, so keep running and hide. while our brave troops stand their ground.

As for your "Rush", not all people that are patriots accept Rush as their patron saint. That is just liberal propaganda. In fact, many realize that Rush is nothing but a country club Republican windbag.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
my friend, distgustedwithhumanity,

This isn't a thread for you or I. These posters are just killing time waiting to be the next caller to say "ditto" to Rush.

There is no intellectual honesty here. I'm bailing as soon as I fire this off to you and not returning, but I will bet you a Ruth Criss steak that you aren't going to get the hard core Rush fans here to admit the truth about who Obama expects to pay for wounded vets. One side of their mouth wants...demands...smaller governmnet...and the other side wants the government to pay for things they support. Your first post was spot on. Private insurers should pony up for our troops. Get the government out of health care....hey! isn't that what the dittoheads want too? government shouldn't be in the business of providing health care. The government should make sure that the private sector don't neglect our troops because of course we know that those bastards don't want to pay for anything let alone some expensive rehabilitation for so many people...sure make the government do it! I bet insurance lobbyist are more pissed than the Vets commander or whoever the uninformed guy was. They don't want to pay for all these wounded American's. They don't want to pay for hurricane victims either...
Do you people understand that insurance companies want to make money not spend it so they want the government to take the hit on money losers! I hate that fat boy that has turned so many people's brains into mush....he is turning you into thinking like al quaeda.

Thanks for the support. I speak out just because i don't want to hold it inside. That's my main reason for coming here. I know it is futile as there are so many intellectually dishonest arguments occuring on these boards but it does provide me some release.

I also need to point out that under Obama's health care plan, the family maximums and higher premiums for claims wouldn't exist either. The article also has the vet getting money straight from insurance companies so that wouldmean that theya re only talking about service recieved through the vet system. Thus there would be no deductible either.

Y'all need to read a little deeper - not just in this article, but in the broader context.

The budget has added 25 BILLION to the VA, along with improved services for PTSD and homeless vets, along with a promise to expand coverage to those soldiers not already receiving benefits - another half-million soldiers.

I'm pretty sick and tired of the biased coverage - the VA is not going to be sending a bill to veterans.

Currently, the VA sends bills for many conditions to the private insurance carriers. This tentative budget would increase the number of conditions eligble for re-imbursement. It's an expansion of the government's ability to recoup losses from private insurance carriers who have already been paid by the veterans.

Again, read closely - As it is now, the insurance companies are being paid for a service they're not providing.

The veterans are paying for private health insurance that is seeing a greater profit margin on soldiers than on civilians, because of the VA's commitment. That's the situation being addressed here.

I've read some outrageous lies in the news today about this proposal, including but not limited to:

1. Vets will be denied employment because of this measure
2. Vets will have to pay out of pocket for services rendered (current re-imbursement for injuries not related to service happens after the fact, not before treatment)
3. Vets will have less coverage
4. Vets will pay more for coverage

Take a second look at the overall budget, and then come back here and try to muster the decency to apologize for the misunderstanding.

Immediately, right off the bat, it's socialist this and socialist that. (In and of itself that makes no sense, since socialized medicine would eschew private carriers, but whatever, chalk it up to more fire than fuel on the part of the haters)

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

I also need to point out that under Obama's health care plan, the family maximums and higher premiums for claims wouldn't exist either.

Obama will have no real health plan. More lies and broken promises. As for higher premiums, when has the government EVER produced something for less money than private enterprise?
Perhaps you would like to buy an $800 government contracted screwdriver?

[edit on 16-3-2009 by ProfEmeritus]

reply to post by WyrdeOne

I'm pretty sick and tired of the biased coverage

Yes, it's too bad that there was such biased coverage in FAVOR OF Obama by the MSM leading up to the Presidential Election.
It's also too bad that the MSM gave Obama a free pass on virtually every major issue today, including the fact that he SUPPORTED the treasonous bailout bill, pushed for bailouts of the banks, supported and signed a bill with 9,000 earmarks, and vowed to bring troops home, but after being elected, decided instead to send them out of Iraq and into Afghanistan.
Now if you wish to apologize for ignoring the BIASED coverage in favor of Obama, please feel free to do so.
On the scales of Justice, the MSM has tipped HEAVILY in favor of Obama when it comes to biased coverage.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Do you watch the same news as me?

All the major talking heads have nothing nice to say about the bailout, or the stimulus, or the budget, or the earmark issue.

If anyone expected Obama to do anything but double-talk, they were deluded - he's a politician!

That said, saying that the budget is a disservice to veterans is asinine. The budget clearly raises the bar for VA healthcare, and it goes above and beyond anything that's ever been done to help homeless vets and unemployed vets.

From what I've read, this is going to be a huge injection of cash into a cash-strapped organization, and the end result should be better care for our veterans. The VA clinic in the town I lived in for the last five years was understaffed and way over capacity - returning veterans were forced to commute an hour and a half rountrip to get care.

I bet dollars to donuts that the articles bashing this budget were underwritten by the insurance lobby...

You know,

I barely understand my own, ever evolving insurance coverage.
I do know, that with each "redesign" I get a little less coverage, for a little more money.

I'm having trouble finding any further information, other than repeats of the same press release the OP has referenced.

I do have a general stance on Veteran Health care though.
That it should be A-1 coverage. That if there were three guys in line to see a Doctor, with the same injury. the Vet gets moved to the front of the line.

That just like boots and a uniform, it should be part of the military package.
That no Vet should ever be bankrupted due to medical bills. Nor should they have to play "paperwork wars" for rejected claims.

My suspicion, with limited information, is that the administration will end up using this as an underhanded way to expose the weaknesses of the private system, providing a bigger launching pad for Social Health care.
Rather than better regulations of the private system, the Government will take it over, for the "good" of the country.

reply to post by David9176


I couldn't agree more with that statement! I'd rather see my tax dollars going to help take care of the vets than see big corrupt businesses stealing it, oh sorry, I mean being "bailed out" so they can continue collecting thier bonuses...

Ahhhhh, Change we can all be proud of indeed....

This news article makes me absolutely sick.

I don't know???

Sound Socialist...

Incidentally, I'm getting pretty sick of all this Mr. Obama crap.

Is this some breakaway separatist group? Are y'all gonna form your own country?

On topic:

Depending on how this proposal is worded, it can be made to sound like a terrible deal for Veterans. It remains to be seen what specifics are written into the measure, but I think it's safe to say that the administration that has asked for the largest budget increase in VA history means to make good on promises to veterans.

I can see how the ability to use private insurance could be a huge boon to certain veterans whose disabilities are service-related. If the VA classifies their disability as 30%, the veterans might get a much better deal with private insurance.

Depending on the specifics of the disability, VA health insurance can either be a huge boon, or it can downright suck, and look pretty pathetic next to halfway-decent private coverage.

I really think this proposal has gotten twisted up by one vocal guy and a handful of well-meaning news organizations.

The story started off as "Obama looking for huge increases in VA budget" and has now become "Obama wants veterans to pay for their own care"

It's a shame that things get this tangled. Don't we owe it to our veterans and ourselves to dig just a little deeper, and not take any one source as gospel?

Personally, I'm just thrilled to see that the administration is focusing so intently on treating combat-related mental illness, and homelessness. These are two huge freakin' elephants in the room, in the discussion on VA benefits.

Look at these figures:

www.nchv.org...

The National Coalition for homeless veterans puts the number of vets on the street just shy of two hundred thousand. Meanwhile, the number of beds in shelters sponsored by the VA? Seven thousand. Obviously these are estimates, but taken at face value that means there are one hundred and ninety three thousand homeless veterans in our country at this moment, none of whom will be taken in by the VA and sheltered.

That needs to change.

As far as I'm concerned, mental illness and homelessness are the number one and number two issues facing American veterans right now.

So, again, what started as a potentially very positive news story about the VA budget has gotten sidetracked and diverted into a discussion of whether or not Obama wants veterans to pay for treatment for their own service-related conditions.

I still have a nagging suspicion that the initial deflection is the handywork of the insurance lobby, but I have no proof for it - only the 'who benefits' logic of who will really get nailed to the tune of 450 million dollars if this thing passes intact...

It aint the veterans.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
Obama does not want the vets to pay. That is a pure misstatement. What Obama wants is if they also have private insurance that the insurance pays. This by no means says that Obama wants veterens to pay for their own care. Doesn'tmatter to me as i will even pay it in taxes or in insurance premiums. Either way we pay and both ways the vets get their treatment. Health insurance industry should be pissed but i don't care because they have ripped us off forever.

Anothe rpoint is that tehs evets will probably get better care in the private system anyways. Which by the way is the way Obama wants to keep it. He just wants the risk spread over allcitizens as a group which will lower premiums.

The OP should change his title and clatify that it is insuranc companies and not the veterans that have to pay.

And do you realize the cost of insurance premiums (that the Great Obama is open to taxing) would be for these men and women, especially if you throw in pre-existing conditions and what not? Private insurers can do what they want and charge what they want and cancel your coverage at any time for any bs reason. Have you had a serious injury or illness? Get one and find out what exactly your insurance company will and will not pay. Oh, but wait, the Universal Health Care System will take care of it. That is a big when and if and trust me, it isn't going to cover squat. I wouldn't trust that either. These men and women work and/or worked for the goverment of the US and bravely fought to keep our freedoms (which our own shoddy government is so anxious to take away). My father was a vet, three of my uncles are vets, my s/o is a vet, and I know many more who are still serving. This makes me sick. It is flat out wrong.

Mybe this will be the lynchpin that the military personnel need to actually lay down their arms.
If they are now taking the risk not only from bullets and bombs but now for their families pockets that TPTB want to empty .
Its not their fault that they are put in harms way for TPTB to get rich off their blood and toil but now it seems it wants a bit more from them. by making them pay for their injuries they recieve.
Hopefully because the risks are now too many both from the enemy and from home , that the soldiers realise that its no longer worth fighting for freedom and just go home and take care of the ones their supposed to be fighting for, their loved ones.
Being from the UK I would support ( if not in person but in spirit) any action that the military personnel take to try and end the wars that TPTB want to start to seperate us and keep us blind to the fact that the military units all over the world aren't fighting for freedom, justice or 'democracy' but for TPTB to get rich from arms sales and bloodshed.
Come on home boys and girls.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Incidentally, I'm getting pretty sick of all this Mr. Obama crap.

I was using Lord Obama for a while, but certain mods here on ATS didn't like that too much. There are alot of things I could call Obama, and Mr. is the nicest thing I could think of. So I think I will stick with that.

Originally posted by David9176
If I were Obama....I wouldn't piss off war veterans.

If there is ANYONE out there that should have their medical costs paid for by taxpayers...it's OUR VETERANS!!

hold on a minute...this was simply a meeting to determine how best to HELP THE VETERANS GET THE CARE THEY NEED, THIS HAS NOT BEEN MADE LAW!!! jesus...did you ever think that maybe...just maybe...the private insurance companies ALREADY HAD POLICIES TO COVER INJURIES AND THEY ARE NOT PAYING UP???? maybe veterans got cut off from recieving what they were already due, because the insurance companies changed their policies in mid-stream??

[edit on 17-3-2009 by jimmyx]

So, its a *good* thing to privatize the military health insurance and make them be subjected to private insurance limits, copays, premiums, but, it is an outrage if poor people don't get free health care?

That is what I think has me so horrified. The liberal minded feel that health care is a "right". Though, those with a liberal view on this thread feel it is a good thing that the military use private insurance instead.

My son and I are basically uninsurable if we were to go try and find private insurance. We have been paying for COBRA for the last year and happy to have it. As much as we pay, I still prefer the *freedom* of being able to choose who I see as a doctor.

That being said, we have a responsibility as a nation to care for those who have cared for us. I do not begrudge members of the military a single cent of what they have earned by fighting for us. I do begrudge the regular people looking for a handout

This administration seems more concerned with looking like a savior to the lazy people, to the people who want their mortgages restructured because they bit off more than they could chew, to giving TRILLIONS to stupid programs and banks, and car companies that should be let to fail.

To decide to save money on VA health care, well, you don't have to follow Rush to be outraged. You just have to have an ounce of common sense.

you know...for all you conservatives...it was BUSH AND CHENEY that didn't give a rats ass about the care of the veterans OR their familes.
what's wrong with you people??

Originally posted by spacedoubt
You know,

I barely understand my own, ever evolving insurance coverage.
I do know, that with each "redesign" I get a little less coverage, for a little more money.

I'm having trouble finding any further information, other than repeats of the same press release the OP has referenced.

I do have a general stance on Veteran Health care though.
That it should be A-1 coverage. That if there were three guys in line to see a Doctor, with the same injury. the Vet gets moved to the front of the line.

That just like boots and a uniform, it should be part of the military package.
That no Vet should ever be bankrupted due to medical bills. Nor should they have to play "paperwork wars" for rejected claims.

My suspicion, with limited information, is that the administration will end up using this as an underhanded way to expose the weaknesses of the private system, providing a bigger launching pad for Social Health care.
Rather than better regulations of the private system, the Government will take it over, for the "good" of the country.

Exactly!!! I am so grateful to those that have put their lives on the line for my freedom. This upsets me to no end, and I will not lie down and let these people take anything away from our vets.
He wants to help the poor get better health coverage yet he plans on dumping thousands more into the system? How in the name of God is that going to work?
Do you think that for one minute that an insurance company would pay for prosthesis arm or leg? They will be lucky to get a wheel chair!!! Can you imagine what this would do to the cost of insurance for the rest of us? That's right, it wouldn't be affordable which would lay the road for socialized medicine. That's his agenda, to force the system to fail so we have no choice but to accept socialized health care. I think this is truly the end of the US as we know it.
Weaken the military to open us up for an invasion, that's what he's doing!!!!! God help us all !!!

reply to post by David9176


My sentiments also, Obama obviously with not military experience is playing with fire, he doesn't know that the worst people that can he will get in his bad side is the veterans in this nation.

They can make the military be at a stand still and that is something that Obama doesn't' need right now when the military do not take him right now very seriously.

The veterans in this nation will always have more respect from the nations citizens over the president of the nation itself.