Police race to stop Real IRA bomb plot

i lost family at Enniskillen


i know people who live in Omagh.

you tell me Count66 , what sort of `freedom fighter` calls the police and lies about a bomb? then to watch , as catholic and protestant children stand around it , and to press the trigger to kill them.

that is your beloved IRA.

You almost come across as a fanatic, Count66, your 'devil's advocate' persona does not wash. You are virtually justifying the death of these soldiers.

The I.R.A are mindless, murderess thugs who deserve to be locked up for life, yet you call them freedom fighters, what a joke that is, personally I'd rather sacrifice my freedom if my freedom meant the deaths of innocent men, women and children.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


The IRA (Provos) decomissioned unlike the loyalists and the British Army.

That is one of the main reasons of the reemergence of violence.

By all means cast false aspersions upon me - sticks and stones and all that.

Simple fact is unless the terms of the treaty that were broken are addressed you will have disaffected people going back to the armed struggle.

Did I say it was right? - I think several times I have said I don't agree with it.

However, that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to espouse the Republican principles of a united Ireland or explain the breaches that have occurred in the current treaty.

So slag me away - I couldn't care less - at least I can see the truth of the situation.

A broken treaty has lead to a broken ceasefire rightly or wrongly on both sides.

People burying their heads in the sand with worthless condemnations led to 30 years of war the last time. This time learn the lessons of the past and do the things required to fix the peace. Remember John Hume and other people who starting addressing the route causes of the violence the last time out were also called all sorts of names by people who wish to shout from pulpits rather then do anything positive like understand and address the real issues. If you think that your condemnation carries one ounce of credibility with those people then your very wrong.

At least I try to address the issues that might actually lead to the prevention of another enniskillen etc

Sir Hugh Orde today pointed out that dissident membership is approx 300 - the same estimated strength or the Provos during the troubles.

This is not something that will just disappear unless corrective action is taken.

I'm just pointing that out and if I'm getting slagged off by people who can't see that or who don't see what has happened to end up making these people think they have to return to violence then so be it.

I would rather that any day then just avoiding the real issues that will get real results.

reply to post by Harlequin


I regret that you lost family.

Unfortunately many people were killed on both sides of the war and not just by the IRA or republicans.

The British army and loyalists also carried out actions as despicable as eniskillen.

Two wrongs don't make a right however and whether we like it or not there was a war and a subsequent peace which unfortunately has now been broken. This peace however can return if the right steps are taken and not just condemnations which to people who have returned to armed struggle are meaningless

If you see my post above this I think I explain my reasons for my stance and I think that these reasons are perfectly legitimate.

reply to post by count66


You keep banging on about the "British Army not disarming", but what exactly has the Army failed to do? Operation banner ended, checkpoints and watchtowers have been dismantled. What else do you expect the Army to do?

reply to post by count66


Your views hold zero legitamacy as the vast majority of NI want to remain British, you've openly applauded the acts of cowards and murderers and you fail to back up any of your claims of British Government collusion in any bombings or attacks.

reply to post by stumason


One word - withdraw.

Latest polls have show that nationalists who seek reunification with the south now consist of 46% of the population of the north.

This population has no love for the British army so your argument of their station in the North as being comparable to the rest of the Union is not applicable.

Leave the North to self government and the PSNI and you will see a permanent peace in the North.

Why oh why would any government want to offer provocation in a situation like that.

Give me one real reason and not some rubbish about a union that is unacceptable to a large percentage of the population of NI

reply to post by stumason


I have posted links to the saville enquiry to bloody sunday and the Irish government enquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings - try reading them

reply to post by count66


No, you haven't. You said you did, but failed to actually post any links whatsoever.

reply to post by stumason


I have edited to amend my earlier posts with the links

reply to post by count66


Really? Funny that, as the latest figures I have seen give 66% in favour of remaining British, and only around 20% wanting to be Irish.

36% of the present-day population define themselves as Unionist, 24% as Nationalist and 40% define themselves as neither.[27] According to a 2007 opinion poll, 66% express long term preference of the maintenance of Northern Ireland's membership of the United Kingdom (either directly ruled or with devolved government), while 23% express a preference for membership of a united Ireland.[28] This discrepancy can be explained by the overwhelming preference among Protestants to remain a part of the UK (89%), while Catholic preferences are spread across a number of solutions to the constitutional question including remaining a part of the UK (39%), a united Ireland (47%), Northern Ireland becoming an independent state (6%), and those who "don't know" (7%).[29] Official voting figures, which reflect views on the "national question" along with issues of candidate, geography, personal loyalty and historic voting patterns, show 54% of Northern Ireland voters vote for Pro-Unionist parties, 42% vote for Pro-Nationalist parties and 4% vote "other". Opinion polls consistently show that the election results are not necessarily an indication of the electorate's stance regarding the constitutional status of Northern Ireland.

[edit on 16/3/09 by stumason]

reply to post by count66


Having read that web page, it offers no evidence at all that British forces colluded in the bombing. It merely states, repeatedly, that they have requested that British Government files be made available for study.

reply to post by stumason


Those figures are not correct.

You don't even post a link.

Here is a reliable source showing the the unionist majority is down to about 54% as is backed up by the political support for the pro reunification parties in the north

Here is my link from a newspaper which backs up those facts as does the electoral results for the NI assembly

findarticles.com...

reply to post by stumason


Those papers you speak about that the Irish Government enquiry asked the British Government to release - are these the same papers which the British Government have refused to release on the several occasions they were asked - why if nothing to hide? and why not release them if the British army were not involved in the Bombing of Dublin and Monaghan.

You also seem to dismiss the eyewitness testimony of British army personnel being seem around the area of the bombs prior to the explosions.

Funny you missed out that bit in your reply.

The point I wish to make is that yes the IRA committed acts of bombings and shootings etc but so did the other sides.

If you understand that side of the equation then the argument as to why the British Army must withdraw from NI to allow a lasting peace is clear. This along with full loyalist decommissioning. If those two sides decommission then I really believe that the dissident republicans would also disarm.

I believe the reason they rearmed in the first place was due to the failure of the above two events to occur. In any peace you cannot ask one side to disarm and not the other unless your asking for a surrender.

The IRA (Provos) would never have surrendered and never have signed up to the treaty if they thought that was what it amounted too.

The treaty was meant to be a solution where all sides disarmed including the British Army - a solution which removed the gun from Irish politics.

The British army can never remain in the North without a threat of violence being there as it is seen as a direct provocation by republicans and as a continued sign of occupation. Its akin to the Israeli army being in parts of Palestine - even though there are Jewish settlers there.

Once you understand the reason for the distrust and dislike of the British Army by the republican and nationalist side due to their involvement in such events as bloody sunday and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings this becomes clear.

I for one am happy for a fully demilitarised North to remain in the union for the time being for it is clear that a nationalist pro reunification majority will become a reality in my lifetime.

Many senior unionist politicians have stated this fact including an ex commissioner of the RUC.

Unionists have nothing to fear and much to gain from a united Ireland - all they have to do is ask their orange brethern in the south.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by count66]

hmmmm reading the news today i see Des Dalton has spouted the usual crap - which is remarkably like the lines of Count66 ; saying those who made pease under the good friday aggreement and stopped the fighting as `traitors` and blames the new murders on `British occupation troops`

tell me Count66 - have you paid you subs to the Republican Sinn Fein this month?

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
You almost come across as a fanatic, Count66, your 'devil's advocate' persona does not wash.

It doesn't wash with me either. Perhaps I have a different understanding of the term 'Devil's advocate' than Count66? I thought Devil's Advocate was a hypothetical standpoint, a stance taken purely for the sake of the argument. If you actually support that position - and I think it's clear that Count66 does - then that's not being a Devil's Advocate.

reply to post by count66

The British army and loyalists also carried out actions as despicable as eniskillen

when did either the biritsh army or any of the loyalist groups blow up remembrance sunday?

whilst the wreath was being laid , to remember those who gave there lives from the small village in the great war the #heads from the republicans paid for by the USA blew them up.


when did the british stand children next to a red vauxhall cavaliar then watch as the command line of sight trigger was pulled , and blew them to pieces?


no , the british and loyalist groups have NEVER done thpse things - its the cowards in the RIRA and CIRA who don`t want peace. they just want to rape and murder children.again.

reply to post by Wideawake08


Your quite a clever informed individual

It is clear the people of N.I have no hunger for a return to violence. I predict the security services will have this under control within a year.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Really?

The orangemen who were part of the 26 counties - a significant number I might add at first did not want to be part of the Republic.

Once they got used to the idea they liked it and in fact if you ask the any of the orange lodges south of the border whether the would prefer a return to the union they would say no.

I know this for a fact from a good friend of mine who is a pro united Ireland orange man from the south.

Its unionists like you across the water who better get used to the disintegration of the union.

Scotland within the next 20 years will be independent again. Then the North will be united with the south of Ireland. That will only leave England and Wales.

The ramblings of a nutter. Ireland will never be united because the people of the north want to remain British and until someone can change their minds that's the way it's going to stay. That's what the whole peace process is about. Adams, McGuiness and Sinn Fein have entered the political process to try and win over the Unionists but your scumbag friends in the CIRA have almost certainly put a stop to that. The troubles went on for years. Just as there was a glimmer of light that republicanism was beginning to grow your own people killed it! Talk about irony. . .
As for Scotland! If it had been seperate from the UK then the recent credit crunch would have bankrupted it. It simply doesn't have the infrastructure to go it alone and as recent polls in Scotland have shown they don't seem to want it anyway. I'm afraid you and your like are just going to have to continue sitting around your camp fires singing your republican songs and telling tales of how you blew up hundreds of innocent people. You must be so proud?

reply to post by Harlequin


Bloody Sunday;

Dublin bombings

Monaghan bombings

the butchers of shankhill

do you want me to go on.

Rather then myself being the one who is a paid up member of a terrorist organisation I can see who is and obviously of the loyalist persuasion.