Good question about hell

Hell is a state of mind, a broken heart a body physically suffering.

This world is hell, (the system not the earth). Satan is the ruler of this world but God gives him his power for the time being. Satan is a spirit

Torment is abuse, neglect, being enraged, feeling unloved, unworthy, despair and hopelessness. Anyone who's been in a bad relationship has experienced biblical hell.

Fire and brimstone are words that come out of your mouth that destroy, tear down, and rip apart another human being and at the same time, yourself.

Death is eternal, final. No more chances to sing praises to God, to love another human being. Death is just death.

Hope is believing in another life, a better one, a second chance.
This hope is given by believing in the Eternal God.

Why believe in no life after death, or life as a dung beetle after death? These words are fire and brimstone that burn up and take away any hope for any human being. And when you die, your words will judge you, so let your words be full of hope and Living water.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by TheAbstract

 

If God created EVERYTHING including "satan" and "hell", then God is responsible for dishing out the punishment....God is Love, lol

God did create Lucifer,

Actually, the scripture about Lucifer refers to a king in the area. Satan is not Lucifer, or the reverse.

Originally posted by whatsyourname
reply to post by whatsyourname

 

God is totaly unconditional love, he has no punishment, there is no suffering , it does not exsist , only love.....

Tell that to Jesus Christ as He was suffering under the punishment of God for the sins of mankind.

reply to post by hardcoremusiclover


If your a terrible evil person, then why would you be tortured in hell?
~God made hell as a punishment for those who didn't accept His forgiveness.

Wouldn't the devil want to embrace you? Reward you for being such an evil person?
~The Devil is out to steal, kill, and destroy. He knows he's damned, and he wants to bring as many down with him as possible.

Did I miss something? Wouldn't evil souls get along and plot against God instead of just torture each other?
~I'm sure they'd love to, but Hell seems to be a very confined, restrictive place. I don't think you'd be able to plot against God from there. And even if you did, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't win. Men will fight against God in armagedon, but they will not win. Our only hope is to surrender to Him.

Hope I was ablt to answer your questions!

All your comments about the reality of Heven and Hell are interesting. My military experience is when the rubber hits the roaad and your in a fix suddenly spraying and praying seems to be the most logical avenue to follow. After the heats over it's always back to the same sacastic mood swings. Who of you have ever hunted or been hunted. Life takes on a different perspective. It aint paintball at the local gathering spot and certaintly is not a vedio game!

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Hi. I shortened your questions to get to the essentials. The creator loses because of the free will of the individual. For example, Satan has a free will. Jesus said He lost Satan, but saved all the others "except the son of perdition" when He was praying in the garden at the last. The creator created everything, and gave us free will. He did not create our decisions, and He saves us from our mistakes in those decisions.

No dude you've not got to the essentials, you stated the creator of all that there is and could possibly be, has lost something.

This is impossible, if the creator has created all that there is, was and ever will be, the all that there is. Then there is nowhere or nowhen for anything to be lost to.

If the creator of everything (including satan) is reduced in any way there must be somewhere or somewhen or someone for the loss to be, this if true would mean by proxy that the creator is not the creator of all that there is.

It is impossible to be omnipotent and omniscient and be unaware of an outcome.

It rather sounds like you did not read what I wrote.

reply to post by safteynet


There are no atheists in foxholes. I, too, have military experience. In my life, I would never trade my personal relationship with God for anything. There is nothing to compare. I know for certain Jesus is there, for I have seen Him.
www.carm.org...

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by hardcoremusiclover


What the original poster and many of you in the thread are failing to realize is you cannot compare anything that has to do with Evil with Good. You ask, "If good people are embraced by God, then why aren't bad people embraced by Satan?". This question is flawed because Evil does not work the way Good does. No offense to anyone, but that is the type of thinking I would expect from a gradeschooler.

Evil is the reason we have deceit in this world, jealousy, greed, any type of crime, torture, you name it. There is no "good" whatsoever that comes from evil, or in other words, there is no reasoning at all. Evil is chaos, nothing makes sense, nothing has purpose, nothing has meaning, everything is conterfiet, it is a never ending downward spiral, to try and give it a definition. In fact, man can't even understand the way in which evil works. Satan is beyond any of us to comprehend, so it is pointless for me to even sit here and try to explain it, but I'm doing the best I can. It's very naive for anyone to think Satan would "embrace" them in a strategy to destroy God.

The true meaning of hell was misinterpreted along the way. We being human's constantly think in terms of a physical or literal translation to many of the things we have read in the Bible. What was meant by "Hell" or "lake of fire" is that when your physical shell dies, you will keep being reincarnated until you decide that you'd rather embrace spirituality or your true self rather than the "pleasures of the flesh." Life was purposefully created as a harsh reality in order to be a teaching tool for our souls. The physical realm including Earth is Hell.
Lucifer is the king of this reality, and he will continually attempt to deceive and manipulate to keep as many in the physical realm as possible. The more souls Lucifer has in "Hell" the more power he has. His goal is to defeat Yaweh to keep this existence and retain his hold on power. As a matter of fact, Lucifer is utterly obsessed with power, and will stop at nothing to gain ultimate power over all. This directly translates to what we see unfolding before our eyes at this very moment. This includes the power elites and the NWO agenda, which is ALL controlled by no one else but Lucifer himself.

I think if we can assume a loving, omniscient, omnipotent God, He likely has stuff like this Hell conundrum already figured out. Whether Hell is a physical place, another dimension right here, or a state of consciousness (like the Matrix), it's safe to assume that as we make the wrong choices here, refuse to feel remorse for doing 'bad stuff', and never bother to change (the literal definition of repent, by the way), then it seems logical that we would need some opportunity to do so in the world to come, or be forever trapped in our miserable ways. This because 'wickedness' and 'happiness' are mutually exclusive.

Regarding Hell and torment-- a crystaline recollection of our squandered earthly life would be pretty uncomfortable for most. Or coming face to face in the spirit world with those we had injured along the way. The ripple effect of our actions could become the evidence used against us, and our absolute awareness of these things be the auto-prosecution. Jesus said He would be the judge-- not like the politically motivated idiots we have here, but instead a benevolent guide who makes sure everyone plays by the same rules and procedures.

So you're left with the wicked who receive ample opportunity to both sin/choose and repent/change, as well as the Devil and his minions who always have room for one more on the 'misery loves company' tour. On the other hand, those who learned during their stay here to choose unconditional love and acceptance would no doubt garner more wisdom, peace, and depth, (and hence spiritual advantage) in the life to come, as they ordinarily do here. As Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are many mansions", I interpret this as degrees of rigteousness; I would suppose the same would be true for those who end up on the dark side.

As to the question of why there needs to be a devil in the first place, this was answered by God himself who said "there needs be opposition in all things". It's yin and yang, choice and consequences. It is only when presented a choice that we are freely allowed to select our path in life and hence the repurcussions of those choices.

A little divergent, but this explains why so much bad crap can occur in a world ostensibly organized by a loving God-- free will at work. By the way, according to the Mormon religion, Lucifer was cast out specifically because he proposed a plan to curb our free will, obviating sin and error, and technically earn each of us the right to entry back into God's presence and eternal reward. He also wanted all the credit for the plan to go to him, not God. Unfortunately, we typically learn nothing unless we make mistakes, so his plan was nixxed (after a celestial civil war) and Jesus's plan was chosen.

So long sermon short, Hell exists for the same reason as Heaven- to provide a choice and commensurate consequences. And we live on the knife's between one and the other.

Originally posted by Disclosure Agent
i have always been of the opinion that heaven and hell were just metaphors for earth and space..... all the major religions of the world seem to share the same stories in regards to the 'Gods' or 'creators' and how certain entities were cast down into "hell' after battles between god and evil etc....

Isn't the entire Bible metaphorical?

reply to post by Jim Scott

It rather sounds like you did not read what I wrote.

It rather sounds like I did but you avoid the question, or your thinking is far too limited to grasp anything other than religious writings.

Try this nice and simple yes /no question.

Is it possible possible [in your opinion] for the omniscient, omnipotent creator of all that there is, to not know something ?


No need for bible quotes or your interpretation of them, just a simple yes or no so we have a starting point.

Originally posted by moocowman
Is it possible possible [in your opinion] for the omniscient, omnipotent creator of all that there is, to not know something ?

if you dont mind i wouldnt mind to start separate conversation on the same topic

im going to answer no.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by moocowman
Is it possible possible [in your opinion] for the omniscient, omnipotent creator of all that there is, to not know something ?

if you dont mind i wouldnt mind to start separate conversation on the same topic

im going to answer no.

Then you would equally agree that it is impossible for the same creator to be unaware of any outcome as it cannot not know it, because it created all that there is ?

Originally posted by moocowman
Then you would equally agree that it is impossible for the same creator to be unaware of any outcome as it cannot not know it, because it created all that there is ?

i would agree.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by moocowman
Then you would equally agree that it is impossible for the same creator to be unaware of any outcome as it cannot not know it, because it created all that there is ?

i would agree.

Logically this creator cannot not know any outcome in its creation as it created every outcome, and being omnipresent this means any probable outcome as it created probability ?


If this creator creates an insect that sits then that is what it will do, if the insect is created to stand then that is what it'll do.

If the insect was created to sit or stand it will do both, it may not do both at the same time unless another timespace was created for it to do both at the same time.

The insect would appear to have an option, to sit or stand but ultimately it has no option as it was designed to do both.

As it is impossible for the creator not to know something, then it cannot not know whether the insect will sit or stand.

Agree or disagree?

Originally posted by moocowman
The insect would appear to have an option, to sit or stand but ultimately it has no option as it was designed to do both.

As it is impossible for the creator not to know something, then it cannot not know whether the insect will sit or stand.

Agree or disagree?

which that the insect doesnt have the option? or that god has to know option is chosen?

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by moocowman
The insect would appear to have an option, to sit or stand but ultimately it has no option as it was designed to do both.

As it is impossible for the creator not to know something, then it cannot not know whether the insect will sit or stand.

Agree or disagree?

which that the insect doesnt have the option? or that god has to know option is chosen?

The insect obviously will never have an option, it has to have a starting point of sitting or standing, which it was designed to do.

The creator of all that is, "has to know" nothing, the creator cannot, not know, as it after all created all there is to know.

Would you not agree?

Originally posted by moocowman
The insect obviously will never have an option, it has to have a starting point of sitting or standing, which it was designed to do.

i do not agree

The creator of all that is, "has to know" nothing, the creator cannot, not know, as it after all created all there is to know.

Would you not agree?

i would agree

reply to post by moocowman


Actually, the father knows all. All possibilities, past present and future. Everything. It's your own choice what becomes reality, and it is based on the choices you make. You determine what you experience out of all that is known. This is called you reap what you sow.