Sea Shepherd Protesters Ram Japanese Whalers in Intense Clash

Originally posted by Leto

If whales were sentient they'd probably be warring on each other and doing other deceitful things. They aren't sentient so they just live the normal survival life that all other animals do.

You have let the bible twist your thoughts and feelings.

All beings are part of God and all beings are sentient in there own ways. Whales on the other hand have song and are fewer in numbers than other beings because of there size.

We war on each other because the same power hungry control freaks that wrote the bible to control you through fear, also control the masses through fear. One control measure they use is war, divide and conquer.

Hunting is natures way and there is nothing wrong with it.

It does become a problem when the industrial machine gets uses it for making profit and greed takes the reigns and animals are then hunted to extinction. For feeding the masses we can farm and raise livestock.

Hunting should be a personal thing not a commercial enterprise IMO. The Japanese are very proficient when it comes to industry and if left unchecked will kill off all the whales.

Now go back to your hobby and mace a hippy.

Whales are important, they are at the highest trophic level below the Japanese.

Whaling is illegal, the japs are breaking the law, they don't give a crap about the law, so they get rammed.

If Japan wants to declare war on the U.S. that's fine with me.



When you talk about endangered species, it's not that particular species that you should be worried about, it's the organisms that DEPEND on that endangered species.




People please, get educated before making a an unqualified judgment.

[edit on 2/7/2009 by die_another_day]

reply to post by bigfoot1212


Its hard to stomach people that think they are alwasy right about everthing.Animals tend to blend with the harmony of the earth,we(humans) are just another virus eating away at the earth,especially now with all the technology we have.

Sorry,Im sure you don't give a damn about what I just said,have another beer and clean your big gun,pet your big dog,get in your big truck and go shot something that can't fight back.Thats what makes people like you feel good........isian' it?

reply to post by AKARonco


Elephants can be considered sentient. More then once they have been observed going to graveyards and stroking and caressing the skeletal remains of a relative. Even if they didn't see that relative die, they recongize their remains. Even humans can't do that.

Being able to build a car is not the only ladder to superiority.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Leto

If whales were sentient they'd probably be warring on each other and doing other deceitful things. They aren't sentient so they just live the normal survival life that all other animals do.

You have let the bible twist your thoughts and feelings.

All beings are part of God and all beings are sentient in there own ways. Whales on the other hand have song and are fewer in numbers than other beings because of there size.

We war on each other because the same power hungry control freaks that wrote the bible to control you through fear, also control the masses through fear. One control measure they use is war, divide and conquer.

Hunting is natures way and there is nothing wrong with it.

It does become a problem when the industrial machine gets uses it for making profit and greed takes the reigns and animals are then hunted to extinction. For feeding the masses we can farm and raise livestock.

Hunting should be a personal thing not a commercial enterprise IMO. The Japanese are very proficient when it comes to industry and if left unchecked will kill off all the whales.

Now go back to your hobby and mace a hippy.

I'm an atheist.

As has been pointed out by others this annual whale hunt that Japan carries out in the Southern Ocean won't make any of these whale species extinct, not even close. Japan is smart enough to know that if something goes extinct they won't be able to hunt it anymore. Japan does a lot of research on whale numbers, and top experts around the world agrees with Japan that at the current rate of hunting these whales aren't in danger of going extinct, give this a read:
www.highnorth.no...

The Sea hippies are nothing more than environmental thugs, if they are serious about their mission then they should work on closing the so called loop hole in the law. There are no military ships in that area because the Ross Sea is in Antarctic waters and by charter it is a non military zone. Paul Watson is going to get someone killed by his actions. This thug is so radical he was kicked out of Greenpeace. I plan to watch Whale wars on Animal Planet so I can post the advertisers on line and to encourage the public to not purchase from them.

this world should be split in half, on one side the people who want to torture, abuse and kill an animal out of non necessity. And on the other side the people who believe that every animal has the same right to live and go without suffering as our own species.

I wonder which side would have the better society and which side would have something that resembles the sickening self indulgent society we have today.

reply to post by Leto


Sorry, but industry has absolutelly no problems driving a species to extinction.
Smarts has nothing to do with it, it is about profit.
Whales are not the only species suffering.

73 Million sharks are harvested each year, just for shark fin soup.

Four times more sharks slaughtered

This video will make you warm and fuzzy. Since only the fins are valuable, and the rest of the shark takes up space, they catch, them, slice their fins off, and throw them back into the water to drown.





Blue crab in serious trouble in Chesapeake Bay and North Carolina




The african elephant is still being hunted to extinction for ivory.Because of all the wars in Africa, poaching is worse then ever while tribes hunt elephants to fund their wars.

Japanese are also illegally fishing tuna. Which is quickly heading for disaster.

Gotta love the band in the beginning, but the singer is exactly right.



illegal japanese fishing

www.youtube.com...


Japan has been illegally fishing the tuna for over 20 years. And what every conservation group will tell you, and regulating agencies, is that the information that is reported, is very conservative, and is very often smudged and messed with to report legal numbers.

A lot of the illegal fishing and sharking goes on in Austrailian waters.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

[edit on 7-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

[edit on 7-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

[edit on 7-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by Beelzebubba


Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FLAGGED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe them when they say the japanese were the one's responsible.

It's great to see people actually making a stand for once instead of just talking about it.

I'm going to their site and make a donation right now ! Everyone else should too !

It's very clear the japanese are violating the international agreement and their ships should be seized and all those aboard should be arrested.

Oh and it should be pretty easy to verify Sea Shepherds claim as they most likely had camera's rolling the entire time.

We need more people like those on the Sea Shepherd !!!!!!

OP thank you so much for bringing this to our attention

After reading all these pages, I have yet to see anyone post the reason that Japan began it's whale research.

Want to know why? The US forced them too.

The IWC moratorium on whaling began in 1982, and set to take effect in 1986.

Japan was initially opposed, however they agreed when the US pressured them, by threatening to cut off fishing access to Alaska.
(Packwood-Magnuson amendment)

No whales, meant that Japan would need the Alaskan fish more than ever.

The US in turn for Japanese compliance, went ahead and denied them access to Alaskan waters anyways.

The Japanese, in response, began it's whaling research.

If the US had kept it's word and not backed out of it's agreement with Japan, there is a real possibility that Japan would not be whaling today in any form.

BTW, in the entire history of Japanese whaling (which extends at least as far back as approx 500 AD, and probably further), they have never depleted any whale species to the point of endangerment or extinction. The fact that they still have local whale species in good numbers after at least 1500 years of whaling (probably longer), is direct testament to this.

The dubious honor of being genocidal whalers belongs to the US and Europe in general, which have historically been far more irresponsible whalers than Japan ever has.

BTW, as others have said. Australia's claim of just under 50% of Antarctica land mass, like almost all other arctic/antarctic territory claims, are mostly ignored by the international community. Might as well try to claim that Australia owns half of Mars or Venus.

Australia doesn't own virtually half of the 7th continent, sorry.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
I've never understood why so many people think Japan is trying to hide anything.

It's all pretty clear - the research program is designed to develop a baseline picture of the health and distribution of current stocks, in order to develop a plan for the resumption of commercial whaling on a sustainable basis. The sale of whale meat from the current program funds ongoing research, both lethal and non-lethal, as well as academic research. This has been the case since the 1980s when the research program began.

This is not hidden information, and it's not particularly hard to find. A simple google search on the IWC and the ICR or JARPA or SOWER or any of the other acronyms found in the news on the topic will provide it.

In my experience, though, people just don't bother looking for it. They see that the media has put scientific research in quotations and naturally assume it's something shady. They take the allegations of groups like Greenpeace and the Sea Shepherd at face value, and even send them a check - without ever bothering to take a look at the rebuttal, let alone the facts making up the rest of the picture.

In other words, people believe what they want to believe.

They perform the task of Whaling for Profit, so who are you kidding? Scientific vessels Tag and Photograph Their Stock, they do not kill them. If you read the rest of my post however, you know my opinion in regards to the subject.


[edit on 2-7-2009 by TheAgentNineteen]

WoW.

That first page of posts was intense.

I wasn't going to respond, but man, there is some serious stupidity being tossed around.
the facts in the OP are true. These whales are dangerously close to extinction, and the Japanese Whalers are hunting on avg. 900 a year. Luckily some progress has been made and last year they only hunted around 450.

And if you don't think they rammed their boat in to the protesters ship, consider this:
Last year two greenpeace protesters were arrested in Japan for protesting the whalers in their boats. Know that greenpeace is completely non-violent, they arent the ones raming the japanese ships. Anywho, these two protesters are now sentenced to life in prison in Japan.

The whaling problem is huge, and seal clubbing falls in the same category. They are hunting too many whales, and always have 50,000 tons of excess blubber and whale meat in storage at all times that go to waste. On top of that, they are buying votes from other countries that cant afford to pay to attend the international whaling conference where the restrictions are voted on, to say they approve whale hunting as scientific research. Now, if you look at the Japanese Whaling boats, they have just painted or stuck on the words "Scientific Research" to their boats, harpoons, nets, and everything else they use to kill these whales.

The baby whales swim near their mothers, and they get killed too, without a chance to survive. We are killing off an entire species that have been around since the dinosaurs. They are the biggest, and one of the oldest, creatures on our planet, and we aren't even letting them mature before we kill them. They are still alive when they are harpooned and drug onto the sides of the boats. Still fully capable of thinking and feeling. They are among the smartest sea creatures, capable of talking with each-other and swimming thousands of miles.

If anyone is ok with any creatures extinction then that person doesn't care about his life either. If you can't see that everything in this world is connected, then you have along way to go.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Odessy]

Anyone post on the second collision yet?

www.seashepherd.org...

There are some nice pictures of this collision and pursuit.

After reading this thread it sounds like some people need to go back to school and learn about the ecosystem in the ocean. Sorry to sound rude, but whales are not the same as turkey. There population has a huge effect on the worlds oceanic ecosystem which effects everything on earth. Not to mention Fin Whales are ENDANGERED!

You talk about saving human lives? Well stop endangering mine! I don't want my kids to starve in 20 years because of massive changes in the oceans ecosystem.

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by Beelzebubba

 

Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FLAGGED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe them when they say the japanese were the one's responsible.

It's great to see people actually making a stand for once instead of just talking about it.

I'm going to their site and make a donation right now ! Everyone else should too !

It's very clear the japanese are violating the international agreement and their ships should be seized and all those aboard should be arrested.

Oh and it should be pretty easy to verify Sea Shepherds claim as they most likely had camera's rolling the entire time.

We need more people like those on the Sea Shepherd !!!!!!

OP thank you so much for bringing this to our attention

The video shows the whaler ship going straight and the protester's ship ramming into them:
www.youtube.com...

You know whats really lacking in this thread???

Common sense. The fact is, most of the people posting here are coming from two polar opposite extremes here.

Half are saying, " Dont kill the whales, we should leave sea dwelling creatures alone so they can support our ecosystem!"

The other half are saying, " Who cares about the whales? What do they really do for us, just let the Japanese kill them and get their dinner!"

What ever happened to a rational balanced discussion? The truth here lies between these two perspectives.

First, there are obvious consequences to killing off these whales. But what is being missed here is a proper and legal enforced regulation of the fishing for these creatures. Anything done in excess is usually not good. So if the Japanese found a loophole, create new laws that regulate them, so as to ensure they are not taking too much.

But mainly, the point of my post is this.. CIVILITY AND DECORUM. Lets treat eachother with some respect while we discuss these important topics. Threads like these seem like a pack of rabid dogs fighting over a scrap of meat.

If intelligent aliens landed, should we hunt them? Whales are the closest thing on the planet to alien intelligence. Should we hunt them?

The Sea-Shepard gets my vote!

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Leto

 

Quite frankly it is obvious you know NOTHING about this issue and how it not only affects the whale populations, the fact that they use cruel methods to capture the whales but also the blatant disregard by the Japanese Government to abide by Australian Law and get the hell out of our territory! ALL Australians agree with this. It is OUR territory and we do not want them slaughtering OUR whales.

Get it? Or does the ignorance not stop there?

why don't you get your navy involved? I thought that Animals didn't belong to humans or nations?

quite frankly I couldn't care less. It appears to me that both sides are troublemakers and no matter how noble the cause, then maybe instead of terror on the high seas they should be in court. Don't get me wrong I'm all about handing out beat downs to people who deserve it, but other then the crew of the terrorist ship attacking the Japanese I really hear or see any protests about it in any of the Aussie papers and what I see on the TV show here in the US.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
reply to post by Leto

 

And WHY AREN'T THEY? What makes humans any more of an important life form? Because YOU (and other posters on this thread) say so? What a crock of crap. These creatures bother NO ONE, unlike humans, who are the most DESTRUCTIVE force on earth. Justifying their slaughter is DISGUSTING.

Why are humans better?

Humans gave us the internet and www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Save the whales" gave us Star Trek IV

Ps. Do you really believe that predators and prey live in peace and equilibrium or survival of the fittest?

Today, no one sheds a tear for the dodo, the wooly mammoth, or the passenger pigeon, but what is really frightening are the grandiose attempts by animal rights activist to ignore war, rape, and other human atrocities in favor of the betterment of animals.

Yes, humans are the problem. Saving the animals is not the answer when a human has no qualms about killing another human. Fix that and everything else will fall in line.

Originally posted by Leto


The video shows the whaler ship going straight and the protester's ship ramming into them:
www.youtube.com...

Both those Japanese ships were trying to fill the Sea Shepherd with water. Those hoselines were trying to overwhelm her bilge pumps looks like to me.

I think they were trying to escape.