Vatican: Holocaust denier must recant

Vatican: Holocaust denier must recant

news.yahoo.com

VATICAN CITY – The Vatican demanded Wednesday that a bishop who denied the Holocaust recant his positions before being fully admitted into the Roman Catholic Church.

The Vatican also said in a statement that Pope Benedict XVI didn't know about Bishop Richard Williamson's views when he agreed to lift his excommunication and that of three other ultraconservative bishops Jan. 21.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I am glad the Vatican finally came to its senses and is trying to resolve this issue. I was starting to get really worried at the new direction the Vatican was going in with having a bishop who denied the holocaust.

I am thankful that Chancellor Merkel of Germany made demands to the Vatican in regards to this and the outrage from the German people over the issue of those who deny history.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 4/2/09 by MikeboydUS]

Thanks for the comment over in my thread. I did see this story.

Saying the pope was not aware of the controversy surrounding Williamson's Holocost views, IMHO, is a lot like saying America went into Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction ...

The Bishop in question does not deny that a large number of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and Homosexuals were murdered in Hitlers Germany. He simply does not believe in the numbers proclaimed by Israel nor the methods. Specifically, he has commented on the gassing of large numbers of Jews. He bases his beliefs in the evidence that has been presented to him and has stated that he is willing to consider other ideas if anyone offered credible evidence. Much of what we are told is based on Russian statements and not documentation. We are also told not to question, and doing so in some places such as Germany is in fact Illegal. Asking questions should never be illegal.

He states that according to Experts who design modern gas chambers for executions, the "shower" rooms we were all told were Gas chambers, were not designed properly to be used as such. Cyanide is highly toxic and casual contact will kill you. There were no air tight doors, nor sufficient exhaust systems. An airtight door would have been needed to prevent the cyanide from leaking out and killing anyone in the area. The doors on the "showers" were steel plates in steel frames and in no way air tight. They were as leaky as an old garage door with no weather stripping. A tall exhaust stack would have been needed to safely move the fumes high enough to allow for dispersal and dilution of the toxic fumes. A short exhaust stack would have simply moved the toxic fumes into the camp and killed everyone. All ariel photos showed NO exhaust stacks were ever present.

This is the basis he uses for his statements. He has stated that he is willing to consider credible evidence to the contrary, but that he will not simply follow Zionist propaganda for the sake of being polite. So... offer him credible evidence and all will be well.

For the record, I am not stating that I necessarily agree with him, just that this is what he states.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
(..) and the outrage from the German people over the issue of those who deny history.

You forgot to add: "as the victors wrote it".

There is a silent minority in Germany who also doubt "history", and there are silent because they will be shipped off to jail for speaking their doubts, like many before them in recent years. And no, they are not neo-nazis, right-wing agitators or anti-semites.

If anyone would like to read the Leuchter Report, which is the well researched document that the Bishop refers to, it is available here:

The End of a Myth

This is a serious report by an engineer who specializes in gas dispersal. It covers all the important aspects of the alleged gas chambers, and why they could not have been used for that purpose. It is well worth a read.

This Bishop is not the only one who refuses to accept Zionist propaganda when it contradicts the evidence.

In the wake of a global furor triggered by Pope Benedict XVI’s decision to lift the excommunication of four traditionalist Catholic bishops, including one who cast doubt on the Holocaust, another leader in the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X has questioned whether the Nazis used gas chambers for anything other than “disinfection,” and said that people who hold revisionist views on the Holocaust are not anti-Semites.

So now the jews dictate to the catholic church?? I guess that's ok since as the jews love to remind us, they are "god's chosen people" and thus the true master race.

[edit on 2/5/2009 by Make Speed Limit 45]

This bishop never denied the Holocaust. He simply questioned the number of Jewish people who died in it.

Media not giving the whole story again. Surprise surprise

Well, this certainly undermines certain doctrines that were cemented during the Vatican II Council.

Under the Doctrine of Religious Liberty, Williamson has every right to express his opinion on this matter. As has been said before in this thread, Williamson does not "deny" the Holocaust.

Does this mean that "all" Catholics no longer have the right to question aspects of secular history?

Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45
So now the jews dictate to the catholic church?? I guess that's ok since as the jews love to remind us, they are "god's chosen people" and thus the true master race.

[edit on 2/5/2009 by Make Speed Limit 45]

Considering that Christianity emerged from the Jews, follow a holy book written by Jews and Christians happen to worship a Jew, hmm.

This pressure didn't come from the Jews though this pressure came from Germany and Merkel. When you have German theologians demanding the Pope step down and the German chancellor demanding for the bishop to recant, there's not a whole lot that could be done.

Unless you have lived in Germany, its hard to understand the outrage the theologians and Merkel had. Its a very different world there, this is the same country that banned stem cell research due to comparisons with Nazi medical research.

[edit on 6/2/09 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by Terapin

He states that according to Experts who design modern gas chambers for executions, the "shower" rooms we were all told were Gas chambers, were not designed properly to be used as such. Cyanide is highly toxic and casual contact will kill you. There were no air tight doors, nor sufficient exhaust systems. An airtight door would have been needed to prevent the cyanide from leaking out and killing anyone in the area. The doors on the "showers" were steel plates in steel frames and in no way air tight. They were as leaky as an old garage door with no weather stripping. A tall exhaust stack would have been needed to safely move the fumes high enough to allow for dispersal and dilution of the toxic fumes. A short exhaust stack would have simply moved the toxic fumes into the camp and killed everyone. All ariel photos showed NO exhaust stacks were ever present.

The monk made a mistake to take for granted what someone else said. First of all, the agent administered was cyanide based Zyklone B developed as a potent insecticide, and it was used in the early days in this form. The commercial use amounted to closing windows and doors in the house, applying the tablets (fumes from burning) and leaving the house. Then you come back, open the windows and doors for an hour or so, and that's it. But staying in the house during the fumigation would kill you.
That's why the gas chambers were not built the way modern gas chambers may be. There was some chemical reaction that realeased the lethal gas instead of burning.

Zyklon B, as HexachloreCycloHexan, was available in Czech Republic under commercial name Dymogam until the EU prohibited the manufacturing. I remember that we kids played with it. It came in tablets that burned spewing a thick brown-yellowish smoke. We put it in a jar, closed tight and tossed it. The tablets could burn with virtually no oxygen needed, so the growing gas pressure blew the jar apart with a loud bang, like a granade. It was a potent insecticide -- no single bug would survive when it was applied.

Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45
So now the jews dictate to the catholic church?? I guess that's ok since as the jews love to remind us, they are "god's chosen people" and thus the true master race.

Well the catholic church had no choice, Gaza war scenes must have replayed in their heads when they made the decision.

reply to post by stander


The Use of HCN and Zyklon B as Fumigant is discussed and closely examined in the report.
Other sections include:
Design Criteria for a Fumigation Facility
Toxic Effects of HCN gas
Forensic Considerations of HCN, Cyano-compounds and Crematories

The report is quite detailed and thorough in it's examination. It is worth looking at and that is why I linked to it earlier.

Here is the link again for those who wish to examine it for themselves:
The Leuchter Report: The End of a Myth

I suspect much of the Popes behavior may have something to do with his sense of guilt for joining the Hitler Youth as a child. While many stood up against the murder of Jews, Poles, Gypsies and Homosexuals, Pope Benny chose to join the Hitler Youth and support the campaign of murder. His appointment as Pope is ironic given his questionable morals. Then again, he has defended institutional child abuse by harboring the abusers.

Williamson has now been removed as head of the Argentine Seminary in La Reja.

The ultraconservative Society of St. Pius X said in a statement e-mailed Monday to The Associated Press that it has dismissed British Bishop Richard Williamson as director of its seminary in La Reja, outside Buenos Aires

Associated Press

Jewish Leaders have expressed their opinion to Pope Benedict that "Holocaust Denial" is not an opinion, but a crime.

World Jewish leaders told Vatican officials that denying the Holocaust was "not an opinion but a crime" when they met on Monday to discuss a bishop they accuse of being anti-Semitic.

..."Today we strongly reaffirmed that the denial of the Shoah is not an opinion, but a crime," said Richard Prasquier, president of the French Jewish umbrella organization CRIF, using the Hebrew word for Holocaust.

Haaretz

I've got a feeling that these four traditionalists are going to be excommunicated again pretty soon.






[edit on 9/2/2009 by Beelzebubba]

It is a sad state when simply asking questions is considered a crime.

Over the years, many of the claims made regarding the horrors of the Nazi slave labor camps have come under re-examination as new technology becomes available.

As one example, there were claims that the Nazis were making soap out of the dead bodies of their Jewish victims. When the story first surfaced in 1943 as part of a fund raising tour by Russian Jews seeking aid to rebuild Russia, there was no way to verify it. As new science and technology came along, surviving bars of soap were tested and found that far from being made from the fat of human victims, the soap was a typical wartime soap made with very little fat at all. Later DNA tests showed the fat was not from humans, but from pigs (a serious embarrassment to those who had buried bars of the soap in Jewish graveyards).

Then there was the story about the human skin lampshades. This story went that the wife of a camp commandant obtained the skin from the camp's victims and used it as a crafts material for lampshades, gloves, and so forth. Again, at the time there was no way to verify the story. But as science developed new methods, the lampshades and gloves were found to be made of goatskin, a common craft material of the time.

The there were the claims of mass graves at Treblinka. Over 800,000 victims of the Nazis were claimed to have been buried there. But one of the grave sites abuts a water well, and when testing of the water failed to detect any of the contamination which would result from burying thousands of bodies near a water well (the water should have been lethal to drink), the story was revised to claim that as war's end, the Nazis had dug all those 800,000 bodies up and cremated them to conceal the evidence of their crimes. Again, as science progressed this story came into doubt as there was no trace of the vast amount of combustion residues which would have permeated the site of such a huge fire. And finally, ground penetrating radar, which certainly did not exist back when this story was first told, proves that the area where the graves are supposed to have existed has never been disturbed. The strata remains as it was laid down by the glaciers during the last great ice age.

We were all told these stories were proven facts, until they were proven false.

I do not doubt that many Jews, Poles, Gypsies and Homosexuals were murdered by the Nazis, but if this Bishop wishes to examine the evidence, then that is not a crime. It is simply seeking knowledge.

He has a lot of nerve butting into mass media subjugation, that not his job.

He is treading on the kingdom of the Illuminati and not keeping on
the path to the kingdom of Jesus, which was not of this world.

So Pope, straighten him out.

When you get to heaven Jesus wants you to know about him and
not how many conspiracies you believe in.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


If you wish to talk Jesus...Jesus was all about Truth. Lies are a Sin. This Bishop does not deny that many Jews were murdered in Nazi Germany, he simply does not agree with the specific facts and figures people take for granted, because he has looked at evidence that seems to contradict the standard story. Many tales have been proven to be false, and he simply wishes to learn more. Seeking knowledge is enlightening.

Remember, that Galileo was branded a heretic and imprisoned simply because he stated that the Earth went around the Sun. Knowledge has led us to a greater understanding of Gods universe. The Vatican has celebrated the findings of evolutionary biologists. It does not contradict God. It shows his divine architecture. If a Bishop wishes to learn history by a careful preponderance of the facts, then what is wrong with that?

Williamson is quickly becoming public enemy number one. First in Germany.

And Argentina:

Legal charges were also leveled against Williamson on Tuesday in Argentina. He is accused of denying the Holocaust, according to evidence brought to Judge Julian Ercolini's attention.

The head of Argentina's National Institute Against Discrimination (INADI), Maria Jose Lubertino, said Williamson would have to correct or confirm his claims and could potentially face other legal charges.

"He is obliged to clarify the veracity of his claims," Lubertino said, according to the AFP news agency. "We are going to make a formal legal complaint and he may face up to three years in prison."

DW-World

And now France:

PARIS (JTA) -- A French human rights group says it will press charges against a Holocaust-denying British bishop.

The International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism said Wednesday in a statement that it would charge Richard Williamson with "contesting crimes against humanity" and denying the Holocaust in an article published in the German der Spiegel magazine and in a television interview.

JTA

The Pope has met with the Presidents of American Jewish Organizations, making the Vatican's stance on "Holocaust Denial" quite clear. As has the spokesman for the 60 American Jews. Rabbi Schneier equated "Holocaust deniers" with murderers (i.e. "perpetrators of the 'Holocaust"). Rabbi Schneier stated that there can be no forgiveness for either.

Here is the text of the Pope's address:

Dear Friends,
I am pleased to welcome all of you today, and I thank Rabbi Arthur Schneier and Mr Alan Solow for the greetings they have addressed to me on your behalf. I well recall the various occasions, during my visit to the United States last year, when I was able to meet some of you in Washington D.C. and New York. Rabbi Schneier, you graciously received me at Park East Synagogue just hours before your celebration of Pesah. Now, I am glad to have this opportunity to offer you hospitality here in my own home. Such meetings as this enable us to demonstrate our respect for one another. I want you to know that you are all most welcome here today in the house of Peter, the home of the Pope.
I look back with gratitude to the various opportunities I have had over many years to spend time in the company of my Jewish friends. My visits to your communities in Washington and New York, though brief, were experiences of fraternal esteem and sincere friendship. So too was my visit to the Synagogue in Cologne, the first such visit in my Pontificate. It was very moving for me to spend those moments with the Jewish community in the city I know so well, the city which was home to the earliest Jewish settlement in Germany, its roots reaching back to the time of the Roman Empire.
A year later, in May 2006, I visited the extermination camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau. What words can adequately convey that profoundly moving experience? As I walked through the entrance to that place of horror, the scene of such untold suffering, I meditated on the countless number of prisoners, so many of them Jews, who had trodden that same path into captivity at Auschwitz and in all the other prison camps. Those children of Abraham, grief-stricken and degraded, had little to sustain them beyond their faith in the God of their fathers, a faith that we Christians share with you, our brothers and sisters. How can we begin to grasp the enormity of what took place in those infamous prisons? The entire human race feels deep shame at the savage brutality shown to your people at that time. Allow me to recall what I said on that sombre occasion: “The rulers of the Third Reich wanted to crush the entire Jewish people, to cancel it from the register of the peoples of the earth. Thus the words of the Psalm, ‘We are being killed, accounted as sheep for the slaughter’, were fulfilled in a terrifying way.”
Our meeting today occurs in the context of your visit to Italy in conjunction with your annual Leadership Mission to Israel. I too am preparing to visit Israel, a land which is holy for Christians as well as Jews, since the roots of our faith are to be found there. Indeed, the Church draws its sustenance from the root of that good olive tree, the people of Israel, onto which have been grafted the wild olive branches of the Gentiles (cf. Rom 11: 17-24). From the earliest days of Christianity, our identity and every aspect of our life and worship have been intimately bound up with the ancient religion of our fathers in faith.
The two-thousand-year history of the relationship between Judaism and the Church has passed through many different phases, some of them painful to recall. Now that we are able to meet in a spirit of reconciliation, we must not allow past difficulties to hold us back from extending to one another the hand of friendship. Indeed, what family is there that has not been troubled by tensions of one kind or another? The Second Vatican Council’s Declaration Nostra Aetate marked a milestone in the journey towards reconciliation, and clearly outlined the principles that have governed the Church’s approach to Christian-Jewish relations ever since. The Church is profoundly and irrevocably committed to reject all anti-Semitism and to continue to build good and lasting relations between our two communities. If there is one particular image which encapsulates this commitment, it is the moment when my beloved predecessor Pope John Paul II stood at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, pleading for God’s forgiveness after all the injustice that the Jewish people have had to suffer. I now make his prayer my own: “God of our fathers, you chose Abraham and his descendants to bring your Name to the Nations: we are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood with the people of the Covenant” (26 March 2000).
The hatred and contempt for men, women and children that was manifested in the Shoah was a crime against God and against humanity. This should be clear to everyone, especially to those standing in the tradition of the Holy Scriptures, according to which every human being is created in the image and likeness of God (Gen 1:26-27). It is beyond question that any denial or minimization of this terrible crime is intolerable and altogether unacceptable. Recently, in a public audience, I reaffirmed that the Shoah must be "a warning for all against forgetfulness, denial or reductionism, because violence committed against one single human being is violence against all" (January 28, 2009).
This terrible chapter in our history must never be forgotten. Remembrance — it is rightly said — is memoria futuri, a warning to us for the future, and a summons to strive for reconciliation. To remember is to do everything in our power to prevent any recurrence of such a catastrophe within the human family by building bridges of lasting friendship. It is my fervent prayer that the memory of this appalling crime will strengthen our determination to heal the wounds that for too long have sullied relations between Christians and Jews. It is my heartfelt desire that the friendship we now enjoy will grow ever stronger, so that the Church’s irrevocable commitment to respectful and harmonious relations with the people of the Covenant will bear fruit in abundance.

Vatican Radio





[edit on 12/2/2009 by Beelzebubba]

The unquestionable orthodoxy must not be challenged in any way...ever!

Any other event in history can be pulled apart and theorised over by historians and the skeptical, except this one, which carries jail sentences.

The six million Jews issue is one which is known to be incorrect. Even the scholars and custodians of the Auschwitz museum know it (I believe the plaque laid there now refers to 1.5 Million people that allegedly died there, down from around 4 Million), yet to speak of it can get you into serious trouble.
I came across this article a few days ago about another six Million Jews - this time after the first world war ended. Six Million seems to be a number bandied about rather a lot, without any actual evidence, yet we are ordered to accept it or face severe consequences.

www.scribd.com...

Perhaps I'll dig a little bit on this one over the weekend.

So it seems that we are living in a world where people are being accused of "Thought Crime"

It is fine to question history, it is done all the time, but if you ever question Jewish propaganda, you are called a criminal?????

The Bishop does not deny that many people were killed by the Nazis. He simply questions the numbers and the method. He bases his opinion on scientific research. Why is it that the man who did the research is not being accused of thought crimes as well? Because his evidence and research are indeed credible. The numbers the jews claimed initially, have been proven to be exaggerations. The stories of Soap and lampshades made from human flesh have been proven to be lies. The only reason the Pope is behind this, is due to his personal guilt for joining the Hitler Youth. If someone wishes to ask questions it is not a crime. It is jews trying to control their propaganda that is a crime. The search for truth will set you free.

Galileo was imprisoned simply because he stated that the earth went around the sun. Research proved him correct. If this Bishop wishes to look at the research before he changes his mind, then that is perfectly OK. Thought is never a crime. Opinions are not a crime.

[edit on 13/2/09 by Terapin]