Another lie in christianity exposed?

the bible isn't a book of lies. its a really good story that people began believing to be true because it sounded so real. i almost believed that some of Stephen King's stories were true i.e the Dark Tower series but once I remembered that reality isn't so exciting I stopped myself from just about worshipping those books

Originally posted by tgreen2103
reply to post by pureevil81

 

Your link doesnt work. Your theory is interested, but I would like to read the article.

I just got back and am catching up with the thread, I also have fixed the link in the OP. Sorry about that.

Originally posted by Choronzon
Not belonging to the christian faith or any religion for that matter, can see problems with all walks of life without anyone pointing it out to me.

That being said, why is it important to crash someone else's philosophy party, why not worry about you believe to be true...it would be much more rewarding.

I am crashing no parties, just pointing out my own observation.

I do concentrate on my own beliefs, but at the same time when I think I have exposed a lie, of course I am going to say something about it... I could cover my ears and eyes and sing " tra la la la la "...but I stopped doing that when I left christianity behind.

reply to post by Boogley


I am turning nothing around to " get a rise out of people " as you said... As I pointed out these are my observations, I do not claim truth, noone forced you to read this, you can always kick the dust off your heals and move on my friend.

Originally posted by spy66Yep!! thanks i am looking into it.

But can i ask why Moses made the stories so different from one another. Why would he make it so open for misunderstanding!

It is one of the reasons people argue the sin committed.

Moses did not write the Torah.. Scribes wrote it while in babylonian captivity.

This was the purpose of the Tanakh... Jewish people had gotten caught up with worshiping 'dark' gods... they became hellenistic which is both a mix of Egyptian and Babylonian magics.. tada! the Kabbalah... and christianity.

This is mentioned all over in the Tanakh as well. The Wisdom that inspired the scribes inspired them to put the Book together... it appears to be their history and it is based on their history.. but it also acts as a mirror.. a reflection.. the more I can look at it and face it for what is there (which is very much a revealing of your own heart) the more knowlege He will reveal to them.. very much the Holy Grail concept .. those who are meant to see, as they start facing themselves they become the vessel with which the Word can fill. It really is quite a beautiful and amazing thing and when it happens, even pinching yourself is not necessary because you are left KNOWING and no longer wondering.

Hello! A lot of you should know me as I have been here since May and quite active on this board. I did NOT believe any form of religion and was very cynical... you have to be.. because if you are left holding onto any type of security blanket, you will never trust Him to teach you... You can not be in a position to where you will trusts anyone over what He shows you.

Once you are there though, you know and that knowing is the most secure place you will have ever experienced. But it is not something that you can take at my word. Only He is able to show you.

Anyway... just amazed even now by Him as though it were that night when my eyes opened for the first time. People don't know what "opening of the eyes" really means... when it happens, you no longer queston who you are and Who you belong to.. and you do not fear.

reply to post by Clearskies


LOL, you blew nothing out of the water, but nice try with the christian rhetoric.

You gave some nice explanations, nothing original or that I havent thought of before, I have heard the same thing over and over but it means nothing.

Apparently you missed the entire point, its a shame.

spy66: That isn't what it says at all. And the evening and the morning means that a amount of time passed and it was the next day. My Bible clearly states that it was on the 6th day. As far as Adams creation story and the 7 days creation, I have a firm belief that there were other male and female people at the time that God created Adam so in my taking of it I could accred the story to only including Adams story. As far as the Tree of Knowledge goes, it was knowledge of what was good and what was evil. The tree itself wasn't evil, the act of eating from it was. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." And he did. When Adam and Eve ate of the tree they were cast out of Eaden and became mortal, their life clock started ticking to their death. The tree didn't do it to them, God did.

justamomma:

(I'm doing this bit by bit so bear with me here)

"The servant is clearly declared... Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. Israel also was declared the Son of G.d in Hosea 11:1"

Um, I'm confused as to where this ties into anything you quoted? Uh, yes, the children of Israel were Gods servants. I don't think anybody denies that but they are not his only begotten son. I'm trying to figure out your point of view as to why you brought this up at all. You are saying Jesus does not = Israel. That's correct but that doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't his son. That doesn't even make sense as far as arguments go. Edit to add - I think I see where you are coming from now looking back at this and the webpage from the OP.

Hosea 11:1 (KJV) "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."
First of all Hosea 11 is speaking on "God's ungrateful child" if you continue reading it you'll see the whole story but Hosea 11:1 is him referring to the freeing of the children of Israel. I'm confused as to what your point is.. alot of the versus you point out he is referring to the children of Israel, which are his children. Nobody said that was referring to Jesus so... that's just kind of random in your posts. Nobody denies that Jews are Gods children. However Jesus' coming is prophesied in the Old Testament many, many, many, many, times. And Isaiah 53 describes that exactly.. In fact one could say the entire 53rd chapter is a prophecy based around him and that was what the OP quoted from.

Here's a few other examples of Jesus prophecies in the OT.
Regarding Jesus’ birth: Isaiah 7:14, “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from everlasting."
Regarding Jesus' death... Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness his his firstborn." (remember this is a prophecy for the future of the house of David.) on to Zechariah 13:1 (another prophecy) "In that say there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleaness." If you need more affirmation that this is in fact Jesus then just keep reading. We can go straight to 13:6 "And one shall say unto him, What are those wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those which I was wounded in the house of my friends." Also a prophecy. Then we can go to Daniel and the seventy sevens prophecy. Psalms 2 is all prophecy about him uhhh lets see... Proverbs 30:4 (prophecy) "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Jeremiah 23:5-6 (NIV) "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.

And the list of prophecies about Jesus continues. I mean don't get me wrong, I am no expert but.. I mean.. I get a hint when I see one. Justamomma send me a u2u and we can chat back and forth, I'd like to learn more about your point of view and where it is derived from. =)

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]

Originally posted by heyo

Originally posted by pureevil81

Well the rest of your post is kind of self-congratulatory, deserved i think when one thinks critically, so all i will say to it is remember that your interpretations aren't necessarily the right ones, so treat them like they could be wrong. I live by this myself.

thoughts?

Thank you, You are right!!! I never believe I have the right " interpretation ". I do however question everything, so in doing that I realize I could be wrong.

There have been some explanations so far that have been beaten right into the ground, I just chuckle as I read them, I have the rhetoric so many times it is ridiculous.

Thank you for the fair explanation, and doing it in a kind manner.

reply to post by pureevil81



Edit.. again.. Ok I see where the link works now, lemme check this out and see what random person with a webpage nbr 4395873498573947593874857 has to say. (I'm not picking on you I'm just tired of reading haha.) I shouldn't say you intentionally took it out of context seeing where this post came from.. I'll comment again later. Better?

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]

reply to post by MatrixProphet


So good to see you in this thread MP, I know you " get it ".

justamomma as well, thank you very much!!

You made some really good points MP, It is alot to take in, I will look further into it as well.

reply to post by Boogley


I'm sorry, what fits?

I'm not sure you have a point to make, but if you do I would like to hear it.

My usename is so far off-topic its not even funny.

reply to post by Choronzon

That being said, why is it important to crash someone else's philosophy party, why not worry about you believe to be true...it would be much more rewarding.

I understand your point except we are here on ATS to deny and defy ignorance! We cannot do that by tip toeing our responses. It is indeed rewarding in doing so.


reply to post by spy66

There is a lot of inaccurate descriptions made by Moses on just the two first pages. Or contradictions.

Actually it is now believed that Moses (if he existed) did not do all the writing of the Torah or Pentateuch (first 5 books of the Bible). It seems there may have been many writers. If this is the case, we will have "issues" with accuracy within those writings. This is not to say that it was not intentional by the Gods.

Some scholars believe that Adam lived two lives in the sense that he may have had two different wives: Lilith and then Eve. The first story depicting life with Lilith while the second is with Eve. I certainly don't know what is true and neither does anyone else. It is a faith issue.

There is always the question as to where Cain got his wife. This is a huge problem with Moses' account. For there is the distinct possibility that there were other peoples that lived on the earth at the same time as Adam and Eve, but were not of their blood. Christians get around it by saying that he married one of his sisters, but of course, this cannot be proven, and really does not fit. He was thrown out of the vicinity of his home and looked for a wife elsewhere.


reply to post by Boogley

There are different versions of Bibles out there. Mine is King James Version or KJV for short. Here's what mine says.. (This is the beginning of the 5th day to the 6th.)

Unfortunately, it is considered one of the most inacurrate of Bibles! I stated earlier, why. The King James Version is filled with places in which the translators have translated the wrong text. But here is more information that may interest you:

"The King James Version is filled with places in which the translators rendered a Greek text derived ultimately from Erasmus's edition, which was based on a single twelfth-century manuscript that is one of the worst of the manuscripts that we now have available to us! It's no wonder that modern translations often differ from the King James, and no wonder that some Bible-believing Christians prefer to pretend there's never been a problem, since God inspired the King James Bible instead of the original Greek!...The King James was not given by God but was a translation by a group of scholars in the early seventeenth century who based their rendition on a faulty Greek text!"

reply to post by justamomma

I think the route that a lot of churches are going to these days has reached a VERY critical stage... and not a good one. Pastors are literally physically abusing their congregation, they are putting them into trances and then laughing at them, and they are getting rich by guilting people.

So, how do you set them free? The truth of course.

Ditto!!

Also, people are not buying the LIE as much as they used to. A religious explanation is often; just not enough, anymore!


reply to post by spy66

Believing in God is just as much a feeling as it is knowledge.

And there is probably a smart brain who will set this thing straight soon. One that can see something that i dont

It is all around you.

But can i ask why Moses made the stories so different from one another. Why would he make it so open for misunderstanding!

It is one of the reasons people argue the sin committed.

I think what I pointed out earlier is the possible answer. There may have been more than one writer of those books. Again, if we view the Bible as a mystery novel or book - we will see the reason why some of the clues are hidden and must be searched in order to find.

But i do believe in God. And i only understand the Bible in my own way. Because God is a inspiration given to us. And you have to feel this inspiration to understand.
I call it the knowledge of love. Only love will give you the right feeling to work with, to grasp who God is. With just knowledge you have to have proof that God exists. Because you cant feel him.
And i believe that this is what separate believers from non believers. It's that believers can feel something for God.

Our faith IMO must not be based on the Bible or any other book, but can add to our conviction. Our connection is with God, and not with verse! If it was, God would have made the Bible with no "issues."


reply to post by pureevil81

I do concentrate on my own beliefs, but at the same time when I think I have exposed a lie, of course I am going to say something about it... I could cover my ears and eyes and sing " tra la la la la "...but I stopped doing that when I left christianity behind.

It is hard leaving the security blanket behind! But many are doing so. Of course, those who wish to maintain their blinders can always go to the many websites that cater to them!


reply to post by justamomma

Once you are there though, you know and that knowing is the most secure place you will have ever experienced. But it is not something that you can take at my word. Only He is able to show you.

And of course the longer one does this, the more open a person's eyes become! It keeps growing, as it is a living thing. I studied the Bible for over 40 years (from birth on) through the confines of religion. Now I have been on a separate path and searching and exposing for about 12 years!

Every year adds new insight and clarity. What I thought and believed at the beginning of this journey is old news, while newer insights have come forward, since.

Anyway... just amazed even now by Him as though it were that night when my eyes opened for the first time. People don't know what "opening of the eyes" really means... when it happens, you no longer queston who you are and Who you belong to.. and you do not fear

So true!

LOL Hi ...so ok another one of these threads eh ...

Ok I will play ....but this will shock you ...I may actually agree somewhat about God and the Creation accounts ..(not saying they are not true just that maybe there is way more to it than meets the eye) ...

My mother and I believed it possible that two creations existed ..due to deep studying into the Created verses Formed accounts ....

I came across this after we studied it .......

CHeck it out ...it may not be true ..but I found it very interesting ...And a very real possibility of explaining it all ..really it is worth the read ..if you can get past that he thinks everyone is a racist ...etc ...Just stay with it because it gets indepth later down in the article .....and if correct could easily explain things that we may not have thought about .........
biblestudysite.com...


As far as the other stuff that was brought up in the thread ....well I think everyone pretty much covered what I would have said ..so I wont say anything ...


[edit on 30-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Good thing we have those Dead Sea Scrolls we can reference the OT with. (some of it anyway) I was giving him an example of a version and asking what his was as I wanted to cross reference if that's ok with you. I don't see any problems with my KJV Bible, and my Bible (after every verse) if there was a mistranslation it is italicized and its correct translation is out to the side so.. Not to mention I read and study the different versions as a whole and other texts from around that time, so I'm not glued to one version I just needed to know what his was that he was reading from! (I like to study...>_>) I don't think it's like a secret or anything, mistranslations were bound to happen if they are translating by hand ya know? But I don't only quote from KJV. It's just my preferred version as far as faith goes. Plus I grew up reading it and some of these new age Bibles I think are a little more influenced than mine may have been.. but that's for another day.

Pureevil, whatever dude. I tried reasoning with you but.. ya know. You asked a question regarding faith and prophecy and want a real answer. You may say that it doesn't fit Jesus' description, fine. That's what you believe but as far as I am concerned it was a prophecy of Jesus. Ya know? Even in that webpage you linked the person who created it is still saying it could mean this or may mean that so even that person is not 100% certain. We all take in personal views of the Bible. As far as your user name goes.. pure evil... questioning a religion. I see that link, don't you? It was more of a joke than anything else but... can't really express in words how I would actually say things in person. Either way good luck finding your answers.

reply to post by Boogley


I'm sorry I just don't see what a user name has to do with ANYTHING!! ok?

I have no way of knowing how you would actually say something in person... wires get crossed over the 'net, I know how it goes, anyway....

I am amazed that people claim Jesus is the Saviour, I don't see it in the prophecy.. How can people believe that a MAN that lived 2,000 years ago is going to come back riding on a cloud to save us, nothing strange about that?

Writings about Jesus started in the times of the roman empire right? In my mind Jesus was nothing more than a " control device " started by the romans, with the help of the false prophet Paul!!

Turn the other cheek right? Perfect!! No one will want to fight for the right reasons, instead they wait for Jesus to come back riding a cloud and save everyone...

It is a huge game of control started by certain people. I dont see how Jesus lines up in the prophecies about him. Why did someone have to die for my sins? This should bring up more questions.

Please feel free to add your thoughts... Dont mind the guy thats saying these things, refute what I say if need be, Or just kick the dust off your heals and move on.

Your choice, and thats what its all about right?

reply to post by hexagram23


You said, "Rabbi Singer is absolutely fluent in all versions of the Christian Bible"

Really? That is some feat, since there are over 700 different translations of the Bible, in English alone. That does not count Latin, Greek, Italian, German, etc.

I think that it is humanly impossible that Rabbi Singer has even read all of the English translations. This is no slight of Rabbi Singer. I am sure that he is a very capable scholar. It's just that I hate to see false claims made by someone who nit-picks the Bible to death.

reply to post by pureevil81


You said, "Writings about Jesus started in the times of the roman empire right? In my mind Jesus was nothing more than a " control device " started by the romans, with the help of the false prophet Paul!!"

You do realize of course that Jesus and Paul were not contempararies? I hope that you do know that. Paul comes on the scene about 15-30 years AFTER Jesus was crucified. Everything that Paul knew about Jesus and his ministry was second hand through talking with Peter, John, and the other surviving apostles.

So, that little fact shoots a hole in your Roman conspiracy theory.

reply to post by lunarminer


Post some links for me would ya?

I do know that paul came many years after jesus, but I am not sure how that makes me wrong about this..

The NT is copies of copies of copies etc... It is not even a positive on WHO wrote the books there of, So please explain further.

Evil promise me you will look at the link ...pretty please ? .....
If you really would like real possible explanations then at least leave your mind open to other possible explanations ok ? ....
You will find that link interesting and possible ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


I'm sorry did I miss a link?

I will go back and look at it, I always have my mind open and I question my very own beliefs, can you say the same? Honestly.

Thanks SN.

EDIT: I see the link provided is not even on the same topic?

Did you actually read anything I have said? Normally you would quote some scripture or something, so please do, but try to stay on the topic please.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by pureevil81]