Israeli rabbis: Thou shalt kill civilians

Originally posted by Maxmars
I asked this question in another thread, but it went unanswered. I am hoping to get an answer here.

Is it possible for the people of the Palestine to call for there government to 'step down' and demand a referendum on it's (I hesitate to use the word) 'strategy' in it's conduct with regards to Israel?

Is ''surrender' not an option to these people? In no way intended as a 'facetious' sense.

I understand that throughout the sporadic times of 'peace' the Israeli's have undeniably engaged in a brutal repression of the Palestine - as a state. Just as the United States did with the Native Americans, and most 'civilized' of past ages have dealt with aboriginal peoples. Perhaps this is somehow representative of a cultural aberration.

However, to continue to provoke Israel is suicidal! Their phasers don't seem to have a 'stun' setting. And they are evidently, intent on utterly crushing the Palestinian presence in her 'midst' or 'proximity.'

If the Palestine were to completely capitulate to the will of the Israeli, what would the outcome be?

I don't think the Palestinians are likely to leave their shelters to demonstrate against their government. I read somewhere that at the height of nazi bombings in WW2 in England, people became more entrenched especially if they lost a relative or friend.

Palestinians are unlikely to do favours for the zionist enemy. Would you?

[edit on 073131p://pm3122 by masonwatcher]

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Palestinians are unlikely to do favours for the zionist enemy. Would you?

That is an unfair question. Insofar as the Zionists are concerned, their exploits do not go unnoticed by me. I do not approve. But that alone, does not make them my enemy. I was more concerned with stopping the body count, rather than preserving a 'righteous pride' in the face of oppression and abuse.

I can understand being willing to die for a cause but in this instance, I do not understand the cause for which both parties are willing to kill. Is it 'righteous pride?'

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Maxmars]

Someone in another thread mentioned getting 100 Soldiers on each side in a field armed with Swords and shields, Let them battle it out and then its settled for good!

reply to post by Maxmars

I can understand being willing to die for a cause but in this instance, I do not understand the cause for which both parties are willing to kill. Is it 'righteous pride?'

Anyone can imagine a Palestinian's motive. If you were booted out of your land where your forefathers are buried and your home taken over by strange people that arrived on steamers from Europe, you would be beside yourself.

The Israeli position is one of justification, mythology, esoteric Talmaic concepts of God's relationships with the ancients and so on.

There is righteousness in both sides but borne of conviction, however there is one unique element to the zionist side which is of racial supremacy.

reply to post by masonwatcher

Mason. Israel is incapable(?) of being peaceful because they are armed to the teeth? I think you just provided additional insight.

One Muslim in the ME sees another with an AK, and to prove his manhood as well, just has to have one. OH! Plus an RPG! On and on.

Sounds like the surrounding nations are very jealous of the Israeli weapons and Israeli industrial capabilities. Too bad. Backward-assed cultures who are lazy and contentious never, ever can concentrate long enough on productive items to get anything of value done.

So they look at those who have, and who can, and who do, and they just can't stand it. "I'm a retard, my job is to shave my goat's ass to keep it clean, and those damned Jews are getting all the Nobel Prizes. I know what I can do! I'll launch some rockets, kill a few women and children, and show those Zionist bastards just how tough I am!"

And with your loose usage of the term Zionist, I would assume you are including me with atheists without God.

Not the moon-god for sure. That's your god, not mine. The name of your god is Allah. That's his NAME: Allah.

The name of my God is Yahweh, I AM. This is the God of Judiasm and Christianity. We have nothing to do with Allah, the moon-god.

So you can't claim I'm God-less, just that you have a moon-god Allah, and my God is Yahyeh, I AM.

Originally posted by dangleb3rry
reply to post by Rren

 

I understand what you are saying but dont you understand that Rabbi's should never condone killing in any way? The same that Priests and Monks of whatever faith should not condone killing?

Is that not against God, Whatever your Religion?

The commandent is 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' the article's title 'Thou Shalt Kill Civilians' was its author's not the rabbis'. I believe what the rabbis are saying is that targeting the militants whom are firing from civilian positions is not a violation of the commandment even if civilians are killed or injured. Basically, they are saying it is justified, theologically speaking, to return fire on the position your enemy is firing from regardless of where they've chosen to position themselves; it's not murder.


In other words, the rabbis are saying no, it's not "against God" to do this. It's in keeping with the Milchemet Mitzvah or "compulsory war" the Jews believe they are involved in. Of course, whether or not these acts are truly against God is another question but, under Jewish law, they are not. That's what the ruling is about.

Like I said, it's a freakin' mess. Sad. No easy answers. What would you do in Israel's position? You have to hit them where they are or not fire at all.

I don't know man, it sucks either way... I'd hate to make that call. Whether or not it can be theologically justified.

As far as I'm concerned both sides can go to their equivalent of hell.

The Jews hands are JUST as bloody as the Palestinians, neither side is right, Palestinians and Arabs get a bad rap for strapping a bomb to their chests and taking out hoards of people, yet when Israel or the U.S drops a smart bombs and kill just as many its "ok"

What these Rabbis are doing is no different than the sanctioning of innocents being killed by Muslim leaders, but when Jews do it its just and noble I guess???

I find it by far the biggest dumb ass thing ever to actually create a Jewish state right smack dab in the middle of the Muslim world and expect things to be nice and peachy.. personally if I had a time machine I'd go back and time and put a bullet in the heads of each and ever one of those stupid peaces of # who came up with that bright idea and manged to drag half the world back into a skirmish that's been ongoing for thousands of years.

Why cant a Chernobyl incident happen in that god forsaken land?
Lets see how bad they'd want that piece of land then, I'm sure if they are gods chosen people then they would survive the radiation it it's meant to be right?

I'm sure "god" wherever he may be is so proud of his chosen people

I'm sorry for the outburst but this crap is getting old and it's sad that everyone is so caught up in taking sides in a war with THAT HAS NO GOOD GUYS, that they still allow this crap to continue.



[edit on 31-12-2008 by C0le]

dooper

Germany began bombing British cities, Britain began bombing German cities.

The US didn't dick around. As soon as they could they began bringing hell on earth to Japanese cities as well as German cities.

Tit for tat. And all of that.

When did Japan bomb American cities,and when did it become so continuous that your country had to 'bring hell on earth' to theirs?

Not the moon-god for sure. That's your god, not mine. The name of your god is Allah. That's his NAME: Allah.

Allah is derived from 2 Arabic words and it means god,it is not his name.The Islam faith actually has 99 names for their god.

dangleb3rry, ronald you sure post a bunch. I don't understand what your position is on the subject matter I just see you pop two-three times withlittle to sdd.
Oh, re Israel shalt kill civilians? know, I'm not convinced of that eithrther

reply to post by dbates


The US bombed the chinese embassy in an attempt to destroy the F-117a which had been removed there- nothign accidental about that.

edit:

If an islam cleric issues a fatwah saying its ok to slaughter innocents - the zionists (and everyone else as well) are all over it claiming ` thats the reason the destroy islam! they disregard all live!`

but now that Israel zionist jews say its `ok to slaughter civilians` then the pro-zionists all march in an declare ` about time` -

sounds awfully alot like the pro-nazi`s supporting the death of the 10 million slavs in WW2


oh wait - thats the holocaust which isn`t rammed down our throats every 10 minutes - MORE slavs died that jews in the gas chambers in WW2.

[edit on 2/1/09 by Harlequin]

What's new? Religious leaders using God and religious doctrine as an excuse for war and the killing of innocents. Well if God said to ignore those crazy power hungry death peddlers and walk away everyone in peace, I'm sure they would advocate killing God instead. Same goes for pretty much all religious leaders. They speak so highly of God, but what they advocate in God's name is evil as Hell.

I'm not a believer in a traditional sense of God in any way at all, and I would prefer not to call it God at all... but does anybody even study their chosen religions at all? Aren't religions about finding peace within life? What is different between a person who can use any doctrine and believe that killing is justified, and one who either flat out refuses or feels traumatically guilty for having done so?

What does that say about "our troops protecting us" in other countries who are proud of their killing? is patriotism and the use of that as an excuse for being proud of taking another human's life more honorable than a terrorist's ideals or Israelis using their virtual moral invincibility in the West's eyes to bomb and kill and starve muslims to death? Or is it all the same bull#?

Is it EVER okay to take another human being's life? I wouldn't be able to handle the guilt. I'd almost rather someone threatening my life take it than live knowing I took someone's life... even if it was in a moment of fear and adrenaline intoxication. I know I would in certain circumstances if I had to defend my family or something... but it's something I couldn't just do because someone said it was lawful or righteous.

Are Jewish leaders sewing the seeds of another holocaust here? Because this does not sound like very enlightened speech coming from supposed sages.... more like #ing Demons.

Err, this is why they are calling the houses:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What's the use of this site if nobody actually uses the info on it

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Not only do zionist sanction murder, they are often the most bigoted and slanderous in any public space. No religion, no culture or race are exempt ...

Not only do muslims sanction murder, they are often the most bigoted and slanderous in any public space. No religion, no culture or race are exempt ....

List of Muslim terrorist attacks

See? I can do the same thing.

:shk: Your continual shilling for the Hamas terrorists is

Israel has a right to defend itself.

HAMAS sets itself up using HUMAN SHIELDS and it works out of
civilian structures.

Palestinian homes are being destroyed and civilians are being killed?
It's HAMAS' fault. No one else's.



[edit on 1/2/2009 by FlyersFan]

Yeah some of the more handline Rabbis are very serious about the whole eye for an eye thing. If I were German or had any German blood in me I would be concerned about Israel having nuclear weapon or advanced bio weapons incase one of these guys ever got to power there.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
What's new? Religious leaders using God and religious doctrine as an excuse for war and the killing of innocents. Well if God said to ignore those crazy power hungry death peddlers and walk away everyone in peace, I'm sure they would advocate killing God instead.

It's not even many of them that do this and it's still enough to cause major suffering, as history has shown. Most Rabbis are good people and contribute a lot to our world but all it takes is a couple of people to stir up mass hatred and violence. The emotion comes way too easily for humans.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Jacob08]

Originally posted by masonwatcher

Israeli rabbis: Thou shalt kill civilians

www.presstv.ir

Four leading Israeli rabbis have sanctioned the murder of civilian population in the Gaza Strip amid the Israeli onslaught on the region.

"When a population living near a Jewish town sends bombs at the Jewish town with the purpose of killing and destroying Jewish lives there, it is permitted, according to Jewish Law, to fire shells and bombs at the firing sites, even if they are populated by civilians," read a ruling issued by Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe and Rabbi Meir Mazuz.

The four added that a warning should be issued prior to any attacks; however, they reiterated that the army's response to rocket or mortar fires may be immediate "even if there is no time for a warning."

The rabbis argued that the army should announce that it would bomb any civilian community from which a rocket is fired to force the local residents into confronting those who fire rockets or mortars at Israeli targets.

Rabbi Mazuz is a member of the Shas Council of Torah Sages.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
uk.youtube.com
uk.youtube.com
uk.youtube.com

Another lie from mason, how surprising.

What was said is that when Hamas terrorists fire rockets/mortars into Israel, it is ok to "COUNTER" attack.

If the Hamas terrorist hide behind cicillians, as they do, it is sad, but not a crime if civillians are harmed in the removing of terrorists and their weapons of death.

So, now besides TAC vilations of name called, trying to organize using ATS boards, we now add purposefull lieing.

So what we have is Hamas targeting civillians, and Israel targeting Hamas, who hides behind civillians.

those rabbis are lost in haterd when does it stop????

using this logic it would be ok to drop a nuke on a country.

when a county posses a vastly superior military they have more responsaiblity than this.

i am no fan of either side but i feel strongly the US should offer full assitance and stop before milatary and money assets

reply to post by FlyersFan


did you miss the phot`s of Israeli troops using human shields on there vehicles posted acrross the various threads?

both side s do it.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by dbates

 

The US bombed the chinese embassy in an attempt to destroy the F-117a which had been removed there- nothign accidental about that.

edit:

If an islam cleric issues a fatwah saying its ok to slaughter innocents - the zionists (and everyone else as well) are all over it claiming ` thats the reason the destroy islam! they disregard all live!`

but now that Israel zionist jews say its `ok to slaughter civilians` then the pro-zionists all march in an declare ` about time` -

sounds awfully alot like the pro-nazi`s supporting the death of the 10 million slavs in WW2


oh wait - thats the holocaust which isn`t rammed down our throats every 10 minutes - MORE slavs died that jews in the gas chambers in WW2.

[edit on 2/1/09 by Harlequin]

Har,

you should also not knowly or ignorantly be posting lies, as you are.

If you read the article, it says that Israel may return fire to Hamas terrorists attacks.

If goes on to say, that since Hamas hides behind civillians, they may be injured or killed in removing the terrorists and their weapons of death.

That is VERY different from intentionly targeting civillians, as the Hamas does and says proudly.

The only one directly targeting civillians are the terrorist's, HAmas.

Clearly they must have been who you were refering to.

reply to post by Maxmars


They will be nothing more than slaves, but that is how the Israel God of the first testament promote, conquer, decimate and kill every male child and adult and let only the virgings to survive.

Have to love relgion to see how old believes actually never dies.