israel haters / anti semites please listen up

reply to post by plejarenentity

i think your going off the point, many people seem to have just focused on one point ive mentioned, nobody is taking heed of the general message that israel have every right to defend themselves

I don't think anyone on this forum would say the Isralis shouldn't defend themselves. but you cant Ignore the fact that the heavy handed action by Israel against palestine has resulted in significant loss of civilian life.

Israel's actions are ultimately agrivating the situation in the middle east and while they have every right to protect their borders, they are making things worst for the area in the long run

in the end it all comes down to religion and I believe this gentleman has the right idea

Marcus Brigstocke on religion

I want to respond to the people or persons that say Isreal is doing to the Palestians & or Hamas what the germans (Hitler) did to them. Really?!? are you serious? History has shown this "battle" has been ongoing for thousands of years. Isreal and it's people have been attacked over and over. Why? I can't help but think maybe, just maybe it's because Islam is not "the religion" in isreal. It is surrounded by Islamic ountries. Could it also be true that Jesus said that this was his chosen people and chosen land? Could it be, maybe that Islam is the great faulse religion? Those reasons would be far greater proven than to say that Isreal is doing in the Gaza strip what was done to them by the Germans. I am in the awkward position of recently finding out that I am both German & Jewish. Having family hat has seen Hitler and Family that we believe was eliminated by his evil deeds. You cannot make such destructive statements without understanding history. Not that I wish to stop your freedom of speech this is America and you can say what you wish. But isn't that a responsibility? Shouldn't we all strive to repect the truth? Is that not what ATS stands for. That is why I am here. The truth. which must be defended.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Um... You wrote a lot without saying much. To assume that people don't know the history is ridiculous. I could write a 100 pages of the cause and effect of this crisis, and none of it justifies the oppression presently taking place.

And jewish persecution does not justify their persecution of others.

And by the way, Israel is doing exactly what Hitler's Gestapo was doing to the Jews in Germany. It is sick at best, and hypocritical at worst.

AAC

reply to post by Anonymous ATS
I dont hide behind cloak as you do (anonymous) i'm not a Jew, i'm a believer in Christ, one who looks forward to his return. That you speak without knowing what you are speaking of and that you cower in the dark only strengthens my point while diminishing yours. I dont know what i'm really complaining about though, because the more you do it the more PATHETIC you become. Keep up the GOOD work you are REALLY helping us a lot.

Ok since I was hiding behind a cloak. Just for you I will join. I am also a believer in Christ. I never said I was not. Never would I say i'm not. I also am looking for his return. The question I have for you is. What am I doing again? as it were? I think I was saying that there are reasons far beyond any of us that this conflict is happening. I think.. ("think") that no matter what happens over there on either side this conflit has been going on for so long that it really doesn't matter who does what it will continue. All we have to look forward to is the return of Christ and he will be the one that puts an end to it. WRONG? to address it further. No war is good. No innocent death is good. Revenge? not good. But we cannot judge what we do not know. Again I say this started so long ago to have an opinion against either side how could we? we were not there when it began. And to the other I could also write 100 page reponses to any of this. Anybody could. So let me pose a new question. WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD BE DONE? We can all sit here and argue and point fingers and blame back and forth and live out a microcosm of the disagreement that is going on over there. Is that not why this forum exists. I do not hate either of you for your responses. I hope you do not hate me for mine. And now that you can "SEE" me and I an not "HIDING" as it were. Do my thoughts now hold more justification? I enjoy having the discussion. But Pathetic? really? Hmmm. I will not judge you lest I judge myself first.

but the most important one is the second world war where SIX MILLION children adults etc etc were stufed in carts and GASSED TO DEATH...

reply to post by plejarenentity


I should say that I have no doubt that this actually happened, yet I question the validity of the numbers. You seem to be so sure that all these people reportedly killed in these camps were of Jewish background. What about the masses of disabled, homosexuals, mentally ill, political dissidents, ect.? The "undesirables" as Hitler called them?

I find it hard to believe that while the Nazi's destroyed records of the camps prisoners, the Allies burried the dead in mass graves, and not to mention the ones that were falsely labled to begin with, that the count is anywhere near accurate as to how many were actually Jewish. I have no doubt that the Jewish communities were at the top of the Nazi's list and made up a large portion of the victims yet I have no faith in the account of the dead as to who was who.

NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!

This is either a bold faced lie or you really have no knowledge of the truth. People risked and sometimes sacrificed the lives of them and their families to help those that the Nazi's wanted to "get rid of."

Israel finally has its own legal state, finally for the first time in jewish history they have somewhere to live....

I think that I was correct when I said you haven't any knowldge of the truth in history. The Jewish religion is undoubtedly what you meant to say. There is no "Jewish people" as a race.

Let me give you a little lesson this time around.

1. Hebrews- "GOD'S chosen" (if you believe that mess) a.k.a. Semites which includes the Arabs of which Palestinians are
   
2. 2. Jews- The followers of The Old Testament, which could be anyone. And is mostly peoples of European descent today and not Hebrew/Semite
   
3. 3. Zionist's- A "Political" movement that resulted in the State of Israel
   

Now try reading a bit in the Old Testament and you will see that The "Hebrews/Semites" have inhabited that land before. Begining with Abraham and continuing with his descendants. Of which the Arabs claim to be that of Ishmael Abraham's first born. See, "Hebrews" have always lived there not Jews. 

Look around the middle east almost every country there hates israel, and would rip it apart like angry wolves if they could, its only because america is on its side that israel has the `luck` of still surviving!

They do "hate" Israel and it's because the Israeli's pushed the original inhabitants off of their land. Granted, there are those that have religious reasons at heart and I will not defend that at all, but it's not only because they are Jews in "their" mind. And I'm sorry but is't that what Hitler did to the Jewish people of Europe? Pot calling the kettle black huh?

As to your comment about the U.S.A. helping Israel, I feel that The US should have never gotten involved with this mess. If Israel wants to be sovereign they should handle their own affairs. We bankroll their military, how easy it is to snub your nose at your neighbors whilst you are backed by the most powerful nation in the world!

I say they need to do it themselves, go cry to the UN, of apply for statehood and pay some damn taxes already. This is one of the main reasons why the Muslim radicals hate the us (backing Israel). And we get nothing in return, where was the intel from the Mossad about 9/11? They couldn't fight along side us in any conflict? The use of their troops abroad would make them too weak at home and they can't help our mission in Iraq of Afganistan for obvious reasons. They're dead weight!

Dont give me the `eye for the eye` garbage... somebody punches you in the face, you punch them back

Yeah and then you move your car into their garage, take over their lawn, swimming pool, BBQ, just leave them thier bathrooms in order to relieve themselves after they eat. Ooops, we took our neighbors fridge and kitchen too, they wont be needing the bathroom anymore. Tell you what I'll be a good neighbor and take his whole house, but I'll leave him the basement to sleep in! Sounds like "an eye for an eye" to me! Oh, be sure to kick him down the stairs when he comes up to scrounge some food from time to time, that'll teach him! Actually no, This sounds like Israel to me.

not what some guy working in a kebab shop says

How cosmopolitan!

I wanted to set one last thing straight. People have attributed so much death to the German people at the hands of Hitler and the Nazi's even so much as to list the total casualties of WW2 as German guilt. I've even heard some 70Mil. stated as fact. When in fact the civilian total is what we are talking about as example given by plejarenentity. But you will find that when you remove the tolls in the Pacific and ares that had no German armies or such and The Axis Countries the toll is more like 16,518,300 (aside from the claimed Holocaust #'s) accourding to the numbers that I have found and subtracted the affore mentioned deaths.

The practice of bolstering claims with large #'s and the "grand total" of civilian deaths smacks of Versailles and the end of WW1. Not to mention the many cities that were bombed during the war by the Allies and undoubtedly killed countless civilians (not that the Germans didn't do the same) that the world pawns off on Germany.

Or the fact that the Russians were slaughtering civilians as they pushed west, killed political dissidents, and Polish and German civilians. Yet this all is laid upon Germany, unquestioned. Or the post war deaths in The USSR-26.6 mil., Romania- 460,000, Poland-2,723,000. deaths at the hands of the Reds. So maybe, just maybe we don't know all that we think we do about the death totals and whom did what.

One more thing, I don't know why you repeatedly make referance to the Anti-semitic people? Am I to take it that you are of the mind frame that if a person questions the actions of Israel they are automaticly a "Jew Hater?"

Lets make this clear - Israel initiated this war...

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by audas

A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.

And I really love their justification. It's like they make up the definition of a cease-fire as they go.

"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."

People do love to ignore these facts.

AAC

Originally posted by plejarenentity

youll see israel have EVERY DAMN right to defend themselves, this land is ALL they have and they are going to fight to the last damn tooth to defend it

i welcome all replies but if your going to be imature please dont bother

All good arguments, biased arguments, but good ones in the OP.

Let's bring it down to basics now. The land opccupied by Israel is not their homeland, it is an Arab homeland... Palestine. So using the same logic, Palestinian's have every right to defend and fight for the land stolen from them and handed over to Israel after WW2.

Why do Palestinian's use suicide bombers? For the same reason they throw rocks at Isaeli tanks that mow down buildings and people in refugee camps.... they have no weapons of war... so they use what they have available to them.

Israel has more than just a handful of times fought back, in fact they are always fighting the Palestinians, just as they have for many thousands of years. What makes it different now is not that they believe GOD is on their side, but that they now have the weaponry (thanks USA) to annihilate the remaing Palestinians... with some starvation psychology thrown in for good measure.

When the Twin Towers were attacked in the US and the world was watching TV for four days, what was Israel doing? Well, no one was watching so they drove their US supplied Tanks into Gaza and mowed down a few thousand more homes and killed a few thousand more Palestinians. Check it out, that's a fact.

What I want to say is; the problem cannot be solved. Either Israel will succeed in killing off every Palestinian it can (Genocide slow or fast either way) or by some strange miracle, Israel would return Palestine to the Palestinians and go forth into the desert again to be led by their vengeful, vindictive, bloodthirsty GOD to wipe others from their homelands.

Long history. There is no solution. There are no humanitarian actions being taken on either side of that fence. The one with the biggest stick will win by wiping Palestine from the memory of our planet along with her peoples.

reply to post by plejarenentity


I am not taking sides as to who is right and who is wrong. In the end there are only innocent civilians who are the losers. However in the interest of restoring some balance just take a look at this list - en.wikipedia.org...

Take a look at what happened on 6th July 1938 and 27th February 1939.

The present conflict goes back to the 1920's and 1930's.

The Right of Conquest is the way this World works. A Promised Land which was only ever Heaven anyway, is no right.

Britain has in the past been invaded and taken over so many times, it doesn't seem to matter any more - the Long Skulls, the Round Skulls, the Q Celts, the P Celts the Belgae Britons, the Romans, the Jutes, the Angles, the Saxons, the Normans and then centuries of migrants fleeing from lands where they were persecuted, but taking over a part of Britain nevertheless.

America and Canada? Belonged to the Native Americans at one time.

Australia - the Aborigines won't forget,

Look at any country and there are few who haven't had to face up to incomers looking for a new home.

What makes Israel and Palestine so hard to understand is that Arab and Jews have a common ancestor and a common god - Yah or plural Yahweh - a moon god still worshipped by both sides (Al-Yah and Yahweh). She must be weeping her heart out at what all of her children are doing to each other.

At one time Israel was the whole of Lower Egypt and one of the greatest countries on earth. If only we could put the clock back.

6 million jews killed by hitler?

HOW MANY CHRISTIANS WERE KILLED BY COMMUNISM 60,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


the number of jews who suffered at the hands of hitler is nothing compared to the number of innocent christians slaughtered by zionist inspired communism.

why dont christian boys and girls and jewish boys and girls learn about the sixty million christians murdered under stalin throughout russia and eastern europe? do they have this pounded into their heads in israel? pffff israeli children have their own history hidden from them to promote the ongoing palestinian genocide

reply to post by FredT


I am assuming then we as Americans, who took lands belonging to the native tribal nations that were here when white Europeans arrived, should also be given their lands back also?

As I recall, Israel fought wars against Egypt, Syria, Jordan, all these countries attacked Israel during their holiest days. Israel won, pushing their enemies back and occupying territories that gave Israel an opportunity to protect itself through the strategic advantages afforded them by certain territorial annexations. Not unlike what most other countries have doe, including the US.

Does Israel have a right to defend itself? Absolutely. Are they being excessive? This would depend on whose judging it and from what position they are viewing.

Neither side is innocent, but it would seem that there are factions within the Israeli Knesset who are as fanatical as those of Hamas or Hezbollah. Jews, or even the Israeli state does not wish to annihilate the Palestinians. The factions that are instigating frictions on both sides do not have the best interests of the Palestinian people in the minds, only the profits of continuous sales of weapons and medical needs.

this whole offensive is in response to a home made spitwad rocket that killed one israeli.. now theyve killed like 600 palestinians.. (to destabalize the world powers so they cant work together for a better system -usa, india china, and russia)

bottom line is, israel has the power to bring peace. if they stopped the madness, and agreed to a 2 state deal, there would be peace. the side with the upper hand always decides whether war continues..

reply to post by plejarenentity


After reading this post and some of the replies, I find myself compelled to respond myself. First I feel I must say, plejarenentity you are either an idiot, a fool or someone who is deliberately trying to disseminate false information. I would have to suggest that if you are going to comment on something to anyone, know what you are talking about.
Why have Jews been universally hated and expelled from country after country?
Because they took advantage of the fact that usury was a sin for Christians and began creating conflicts between nations in order to loan money to both sides and make a profit off of the misery of others.
Because they murdered Christ in order to prevent him from promoting a new religion and way of life based on love and forgiveness rather than theirs based on hate, guilt and repression and which allowed the rebbis to become very wealthy by charging temple fees, etc. Because they are the ones who call Palestinians vermin, in fact all of us "Goyim" are, according to their Talmud, essentially animals to be used as they see fit. They are allowed to lie to us, steal from us or even kill us and it is not a sin. I don't know about you, but I get pissed off and resentful when someone calls me an animal.
Because they are the original masters of "spin" distorting history or creating false history in order to perpetuate the myth that they are just poor oppressed people who can't understand why they are so mistreated. Because they undertake such endeavours as removing all signs of Christmas, such as nativity scenes, from public areas while ensuring that those same places display menorahs.
Because they have created what is essentially a safe zone for any Jew who has committed a crime in another nation. Yes if you are a Jew, you can rape and or murder a young girl here in America and then go to Israel knowing you are safe from extradition and will never be punished for your crime.
Because they are practicing genocide against the Palestinian people, but that is o.k. because, according to the Israelis, they don't exist and if they did exist they would be subhuman and it doesn't matter anyway because they control the media so no one will ever know what they are really doing.

All of this is not just my opinion, and if you truly had a grasp of history, not just what is printed in Zionist text books or shown on a Jewish owned television station, you would know all of this. If you went to a series of parties and were kicked out of every one could you really continue to blame all the other guests, or would you begin to realize that maybe you should bathe or that maybe you were just an asshole.

So I beg you, all of you, go look up- the history of Palestine and its theft through the Balfour declaration (how do you give away something that doesn't even belong to you?), the archeological evidence regarding the Jews myth of the "Exodus", the true story of how Germany offered the European Jews a way out and their offer was turned down by the Zionist leadership because they wanted their "burnt offering", and read the old testament(even if you don't believe it all, this is what the Jews want to remember about themselves and how they wish others to see them) then ask yourself whether you want to share the Earth with a group of savage, genocidal psychopaths who believe that they are better than you and can use you like chattel because their God tells them so.

And just to ensure that you all know where I am coming from, I don't hate Jews or anyone else for being what they were born, I despise people for their professed beliefs and their actions.

reply to post by KMAN1
Sorry about that, there were two anonymous that were posting. I dont think my response was aimed at you but i'm glad you're are no longer posting as anonymous, it helps to avoid confussion. All we can do is plant seeds, we're not harvesters. We were told that this argument would rage until he returns, that doesn't make it easy but it also is still the truth.

reply to post by plejarenentity


"And everything i am saying here is historical facts, in fact ive probbaly put it nicely as there are far far far more examples of how theyve been treated like garabage, but the most important one is the second world war where SIX MILLION children adults etc etc were stufed in carts and GASSED TO DEATH... now 60 or so years ago or not theres no `oh move on`... sorry there is no excuse for six million people being killed!
Now the 2 or 3 years of the `final solution`.. which is basically what adolf hitlers gassing of the jews was called, NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!"

Sheesh, are you through yet with this nonsense? "NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT"? Gee, so those were FAKE photos of American G.I.s liberating the Jews from concentration (of labor) camps? Who knew?

Let me ask you, genius: who "stepped in" to save the Armenians, the ones that were mentioned in a 1938 Hitler speech: "and who remembers the Armenians" to be specific? No JEWS, that's FOR SURE!

By the way, how many PALESTINIANS killed your "Jews in carts with gas", genius? NOT ONE. How many Americans killed Jews??? NOT ONE.

How much does America suffer by supporting the murdering Zionists in control of Israel? A LOT.

The Jews living in Palestine did so IN PEACE. Then, Great Britain made a deal with the Zionist Rothschild to GIVE them PALESTINE in exchange for a war time loan. THAT'S FACT, jackass. Zionism is barely 120 years old, thought up by some genius like yourself in 1880s. Before THAT, Jews lived PEACEFULLY and UNHARMED throughout the Middle East (as they do today in places like Iran). Bringing up something that happened to Jews in EUROPE means NOTHING, has NOTHING to do with TODAY'S GENOCIDE of Palestinians by Israel: NOTHING.

So all of this is just a distraction from the ISRAELI GENOCIDE of PALESTINIANS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

For your information, the Armenians are the ones that had the word GENOCIDE coined for the horror (over 1.2 million murdered )brought upon them by JEWISH LEADERS of the YOUNG TURK movement in Turkey? Oh, you didn't know? I thought you were some kind of HISTORICAL FACT genius! So much for that notion.

And how about the THIRTY TWO MILLION Ukrainians MURDERED by the JEW Stalin, you BUMBLING, RAMBLING, can't spell for # IDIOT. Oh, you didn't know that either, did you, "Historical fact" fool.

Ever heard of Stalin? Jewish. Lenin, Trotsky and their commies? Jewish.

And the LAND of PALESTINE is still PALESTINE, no matter how many mental midgets like you are filled with Israeli and American msm propaganda(but I repeat myself)..... or was it some "Christian Zionist preacher" that filled your fool noggin with such nonsense?

Now, you have a nice, BLISSFUL day. I imagine you have a LOT of those.....

reply to post by munkey66


Dear munkey66,

They commit suicide because in their brain-washed minds they imagine they're "doing God's work" and will be rewarded in Paradise with 72 virgins, 28 boys, a permanent hard-on, rivers of wine and lush food of the very best. Wise up, matey. The Jews were there first- thousands of years ago. Let them be.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


"History has shown this "battle" has been ongoing for thousands of years. Isreal and it's people have been attacked over and over."

You could AT LEAST spell Israel correctly if you are going to MAKE UP "history" as you go along.

So, this "battle has been ongoing for thousands of years", eh? Odd, since it was 1947 when Israel was formed, and archaeology has PROVEN there was NO "Kingdom" of David or Solomon in ancient times, at best they were local chieftains of a population totaling no more than 5 or 6 thousand people. That's a fact, jack. No "Kingdom" no "First Temple", nothing, nada, zilch.

The "Ark of the Covenant" ? An EGYPTIAN relic found in King Tut's tomb.

"Abraham"? A BRAHMIN priest, something else the ancient sheepherders "borrowed" from existing, REAL kingdoms, like of Cyrus the Great, the king that FREED the Jews of his nation, and was labeled "Mesach" by the grateful former slaves. THAT IS "The Exodus" historically, by the way. There is NO EVIDENCE of ANY large migration from Egypt at the period (or any period) the Jews claim as the "Exodus." NO EVIDENCE, NONE.

There WAS a small contingent of Hyksos pushed out of Egypt at that time, and MAYBE this small number of people, numbering less than 100, MAY have been what we today would label as "Hebrew", but not "Jewish, not "Israelite."

"Abraham" was an Indian God, with his consort having, "oddly enough", the same name the "Israelites" Abraham's wife had!! Gee, what a coincidence, eh? Just like how his father was a maker of religious sculptures, like portrayals of RAMS CAUGHT IN THICKETS, and a well known motif employed in ancient UR, LONG BEFORE the Isaac myth the Jews cling to. LONG BEFORE.

Simply looking up "Ur" on google will lead you to photos of sculptures of the ram caught in a thicket. And even the bible tells you "Abraham's" father was a sculpture. Living in Ur, on the road from India.

Now, please give me ONE LINK to any "battle" in "Israel" between "Jews" and ANYONE ELSE one hundred years ago. 75 years ago. 200 years ago. 500 years ago.

You won't find, because it didn't happen. The "Jews" of today's Israel are WHITE SKINNED, many BLUE-EYED, CONVERTED Eastern European JEWS.

And they are committing GENOCIDE on the SEMITIC Palestinians population.

Now, go away and try to locate this "battle of thousands of years" you made up, then get back with us, got it?

reply to post by plejarenentity


Oh let me guess, another tub-thumping american bigot, uneducated, unable to read, unable to be humane. yanks, the "bully teenagers of the civilised world"

Uh, the crusades, and other atrocities were carried out against the Arabs, long before the WW2 stuff, and yes the entire area has been a RELIGIOUS HELLHOLE for ever. All sides have suffered....isnt it about time the suffering (especially the kids) ended?

The Isrealities are outdoing the nazis. Champion, and well done, welcome to the "civilised world".

Dead innocent kids, and generational hatred, is all you are earning.