Breaking the last great taboo: how irrational religious belief is hurting mankind as a whole

I personally believe that organized religion does mankind more harm than good.
I don't believe that we need a hypocritical book to tell us how to be moral, while that same book tells you that you should do immoral things to people based on theological beliefs.
I agree with most of what this man says. I think he brings up alot of good points and desribes the ridiculous nature of irrational religious belief much better than I could ever dream of doing.

Please watch this, I think it will change the way you think, and force you to question things that most people just accept without question because they have been told they are a "bad person" if they do so.
It is my belief that Sam Harris is attempting to break the very last taboo left, and when he succeeds mankind will be better off.

Skip to 1 minute to get past the commercials.

Google Video Link

How do you feel about the information in this video?
Please keep it civil and intelligent, and please don't bother to comment if you don't watch the video.

For anyone who thinks that we need the bible to be compassionate or moral or to love one another or to do the right thing look at this.
This was originally posted in this thread.
Consciousness of Animals

Great find.

This guy is obviously very well educated in many areas and makes excellent points.

Some of the beliefs in these religions are so ridiculous that you actually NEED a group of people that believe the same baloney otherwise reason would set in.

Harmful to humanity as to prevent you from doing something positive or creative rather than WAITING for some THING to do it for you.

Oh, and your statement or question was probably answered in the video so there is no need to post it below until you've watched the video.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
For anyone who thinks that we need the bible to be compassionate or moral or to love one another or to do the right thing look at this.
This was originally posted in this thread.

You dont need the bible to be compassionate or moral or to love people. The bible is simply a guide for life, a manual for our lives before we leave earth. It has a little history (old testiment) and then it has the person we should try to be like (the gospels) and then after that it shows us more history and ideas on how we should be setting up the church (the rest of the new testiment).

As I stated above:
Please don't bother to comment if you don't watch the video.

I'm not going to debate the semantics of religion with people.
The Bible, the Qur'an, and organized religion as a whole are irrational, dangerous, and cause delusional beliefs and behavior in humans.
Therefore, they are no longer needed.
Watch the video and you will understand why I say these things.

Edit: the video of the dog is an example "for anyone who thinks that we need the bible to be compassionate or moral or to love one another or to do the right thing" and yes there are people who believe this.

If you do not that is a good thing.


[edit on 12-12-2008 by ashamedamerican]

" you don't need the bible to love people "


Oh for real. Before I knew about Christ I was dead hearted like hell.

I used to call communion a wavey lays potatoe chip, but now am firm believer since I know what Iv'e felt from it, and scientists have tested eucharistic miracles in italy.


I used to step on bugs for no reason and laugh, now I can't do it anymore.


when riding by homeless people I now look with compassion. S*** didn't happen before I knew God, I was selfish as hell.


I used to HATE sharing my food with others. Now I love too


I used to beat my animals, now I can't


I used to be lazy, couch potatoe, not compassion, throw things at my mom when I was mad, I used to be dead hearted,


Now since I leanred, key word, learned about Christ he's taught me not only real love, but to love my enemies. meaning all you goofs who call me a lunitic. I love you guys to death, whereas before I would of hated you.


and so this love comes from him. He infuses into the soul graces which are love. It goes way deeper then this which communion made me realize and so without humility people will never realize this.

if all of you are born with love then how come evil people are everywhere? Bullies in school, heartless people?

Because somewhere you leanred what you leanred and you weren't born with love or else the entire planet would not be evil.

God places in mans heart by either prayer or dilligence or whatever.

and then there is pride. Which means someone who runs on their self ability, always wanting to be loved the most, always built up how much good they do.

So a soul can run on either pride or grace.


this is why in this age people talk about how real they are. This is an effect of that pride I just mentioned in a soul and how bad it can get.

which would confirm st paul talkin bout the end times saying people will be puffed up like never before.


Now as for the video. God cannot be ridded of. He will allow antichrist to have his time before WW3 shortly.


You guys will have your wish because he will put CXhristians to death, you will get your little 3 year reign before Christ comes back and brings peace to the world again.

everything we see since 9/11 and so forth are the building up of the one world order.

and antichrists arrivle. One world government. Joining of all religions, ridding of Christ.

peace.

" Bible Koran, religion makes people delusional "


Bulls****

How about the tons of saints who gave their lives to build homseless shelters and help people?

Listen, hypocrites in religion cause delusion. There have been many sane people in religion who want to live a simple life loving God and helping 0thers.

You call them nuts? You judging them for no reason? You don't know them like that bro.


As for harm. Talk about communitic athiest. You rid the world of religion and communism, nuclear warheads will destroy the earth because there is no moral code or coimmands.


Communism has done or will do just as much damage as religion has. Mind you only hypocritical religion or hypocrites in religion cause problems, not the saints.

and so communism will create more nukes and your planet wil be destroyed even if religion isn't here.

True peace is not gonna happen unless God comes back to settle it strait. If religious people like me are gone, then nation will still buold nukes, fight against each other and have just as much war without it.


peace.

sorry for my tone guys. I'm Italian. Just how I post, please forgive me.

Because somewhere you leanred what you leanred and you weren't born with love or else the entire planet would not be evil.

God places in mans heart by either prayer or dilligence or whatever.

and then there is pride. Which means someone who runs on their self ability, always wanting to be loved the most, always built up how much good they do.

So a soul can run on either pride or grace.

So what about all the lovely and selfless people who don't have God? They are all fakers or automatically doing it for selfish reasons? I do not have God and I do my good and I do it selflessly.

I sed to do probably all the things you mentioned and more to incldue animal abuse. God didn't snap me out of all that someone else did. I suppose many will think I am full of crap for saying that but I hate to say it, they can deal with it.

How about the tons of saints who gave their lives to build homseless shelters and help people?

And how about all the athiests and non-Christians who do all their good work? They aren't good enough?

See here's what I figure...

If you and I got together one day, a full-fledged Pagan and a full-fledged Christian and we each took $1,000 dollars US and walked up to a homeless man, handed it off and walked away without but a smile, you wouldn't find a difference just because you are one and I am another.

That's my opinion anyway.

and so communism will create more nukes and your planet wil be destroyed even if religion isn't here.

You know that Capitalism started the nuclear program AND were the only ones to use them thus far. We used them without knowing it's true capability and wiped over tens of thousands innocent people. The 'communists' meanwhile haven't done so. The one nation, UNDER GOD, has dropped two on Japan.

Now here's the thing, and please pay close attention. I am not saying in anyway that God or Christians caused this so let's no go that one sepcific route. What I am saying is all the 'communists' have yet to do what you fear here and the Capitalists have twice.

-Kyo

To put this simply one could be smart enough to build a nuclear device, yet still irrational and delusional enough to believe that he will get those 72 virgins when he detonates it.

This thread isn't for people to spew their religious dogma and rhetoric, it's a discussion of how irrational religious belief is hurting mankind as a whole.

As I have already had to restate: please don't bother to comment if you don't watch the video.

Originally posted by KyoZero
The one nation, UNDER GOD, has dropped two on Japan.

I love that quote, star for you my friend.

With that being said, I really wish people would think about their beliefs logically rather than just regurgitating what they have been told, this world would be a much better place if people would learn to think for themselves.

Unless someone was to watch the video with the mindset of:
"I'm going to debunk this bastard, you wait til I get some quotes from this video to rip apart."
Than I honestly don't understand how anyone could watch this, and not admit that there are some very valid points made.

These religions are causing guilt, fear, and hate. We need people to be able to accept themselves for who they are but it's difficult to do that when you have a religion telling them they're a bad person for just being themselves. Or rather "who god made them.". too much denial and suppression going down, time for us to get honest with each otehr and ourselves. Where is God? if he cared as much about this world that he would base our fate for eternity on what we do here, you'd think he'd show up more than once every few millennia.

While I agree with what you say, I would like to point out the fact (from a neutral standpoint) that just because religions do cause the things you and I have pointed out, this does not mean that there isn't, or couldn't be a god out there.
I happen to believe that there is some higher power out there. Maybe this being created us directly, maybe he/she/they created the being(s) that created us. Either way it does not change the fact that this/these being(s) could still exist.

This does not mean I believe that the being(s)* responsible for the creation of the whole universe and earth itself did it in six days, or as some believe 6,000 years ago.
And yes, some people actually do believe that the world is 6,000 years old. Approximately 130 million Young Earth Creationists believe Earth is about 6,000 years old.
*I put the (s) in there because we do not know that there is only one god, that also came from religion.

So the one thing I will mention about this video at this point is that I believe he is an Atheist where as I am not. The mathematics inherant in nature will itself represent an arguement for the existence of one or many gods. The point I try to make is that I don't believe that the real god(s) would be so contradictory of him/her/them self. For example if my wife isn't a virgin on our wedding night I am told to stone her death, but murder is a sin. One example that could be made, out of many.

Just because the bible is not the literal word of god, does not mean that god(s) doesn't/don't exist. It just means that the Bible and Qur'an can not tell you who god(s) is/are. That would just mean that god(s) is/are more mysterious than even the bible says he/she/they are.

This man is so repulsive in his condemnation of faith while extolling Buddhism.
From his book,
The End of Faith, page 52-53;

The link between belief and behavior raises the stakes considerably. Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them. This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world in which we live.

Stalin would be proud of him, sort-of. (He's too noodley and weak, though, for dictators).
A good summation here;
One Cosmos
Also, he's PRO-Water-boarding!
Sam Harris

Nevertheless, there are extreme circumstances in which I believe that practices like “water-boarding” may not only be ethically justifiable, but ethically necessary. This is not the same as saying that they should be legal...........I am not alone in thinking that there are potential circumstances in which the use of torture would be ethically justifiable.

My argument for the limited use of coercive interrogation ("torture" by another name) is essentially this: if you think it is ever justifiable to drop bombs in an attempt to kill a man like Osama bin Laden (and thereby risk killing and maiming innocent men, women, and children), you should think it may sometimes be justifiable to “water-board” a man like Osama bin Laden (and risk abusing someone who just happens to look like Osama bin Laden). It seems to me that however one compares the practices of “water-boarding” high-level terrorists and dropping bombs, dropping bombs always comes out looking worse in ethical terms. And yet, many of us tacitly accept the practice of modern warfare, while considering it taboo to even speak about the possibility of practicing torture.

Wow! This guy is supposed to be smart! :shk:

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Clearskies]

The link between belief and behavior raises the stakes considerably. Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them. This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world in which we live.

Actually, you just proved my point for me without realising it.
This is a perfect example of the jihad/martyr mindset.
If some nutbag straps a bomb on himself, and commits suicide in a crowded place, he believes he's going to get those 72 virgins for his righteous attack on (insert name here.)

I stated above:
Unless someone was to watch the video with the mindset of:
"I'm going to debunk this bastard, you wait til I get some quotes from this video to rip apart."
Than I honestly don't understand how anyone could watch this, and not admit that there are some very valid points made.

I can only assume you didn't even watch the video.
So you did a google search for any slanderous remark you could find on him, and made your mind up without hearing a single word of his arguement.
That sounds like completely rational behavior for someone who was confronted with a video of a man speaking.

I believe you have just made another point for me, thank you very much for your assistance.

Also let me point out that I'm not Sam Harris's chearleader, I'm not here to prop the man up on a pedestal and bow to him. Like any other human he very well may have ideas and beliefs that I don't agree with, But I don't run around referring to anyone who I don't agree with as "noodley and weak" Ok well maybe O'Rielly and Bush.

Nevertheless, there are extreme circumstances in which I believe that practices like “water-boarding” may not only be ethically justifiable, but ethically necessary. This is not the same as saying that they should be legal...........I am not alone in thinking that there are potential circumstances in which the use of torture would be ethically justifiable.

So if nuclear bombs were strategically placed in 13 cities worldwide and hundreds of millions, if not billions of lives were at risk, and the government had a man in custody who knew the exact location of all of them, you wouldn't want to use any method they could to get this information?
I'm not saying they should be able to waterboard people in mass numbers like they probably are now, or that it should be legal. However I do agree with that statement.

I believe you have just made another point for me, thank you very much for your assistance.

Oh wait just a second.

My argument for the limited use of coercive interrogation ("torture" by another name) is essentially this: if you think it is ever justifiable to drop bombs in an attempt to kill a man like Osama bin Laden (and thereby risk killing and maiming innocent men, women, and children), you should think it may sometimes be justifiable to “water-board” a man like Osama bin Laden (and risk abusing someone who just happens to look like Osama bin Laden). It seems to me that however one compares the practices of “water-boarding” high-level terrorists and dropping bombs, dropping bombs always comes out looking worse in ethical terms. And yet, many of us tacitly accept the practice of modern warfare, while considering it taboo to even speak about the possibility of practicing torture.

That is actually another good point. We'll drop bombs and kill civilians and that's just "collateral damage" who cares if 15 women and children died right that's an "acceptable loss." However if you have Osama himself in custody, and those 13 nukes are about to go off, don't you dare waterboard him because that would be unethical.

I believe you have just made another point for me, thank you very much for your assistance.


[edit on 13-12-2008 by ashamedamerican]

reply to post by JesusisTruth


[True peace is not gonna happen unless God comes back to settle it strait. If religious people like me are gone, then nation will still buold nukes, fight against each other and have just as much war without it.]

Exactly ...when they do not have us to turn on when raging ...they will turn on eachother then ....

You know I sit here and read from the Athiests how they wish Christians would all go away etc ....even some wish death on us (which someday they will get that ) .....and yet just about every single Christian on here never says anything even close to they wish Athiests would just go away or die ..in fact they sit here and take all the ridicule and anger etc that comes from the Athiests etc that someone else years ago may have caused ...and take it out on everyone who is a Christian at this site .The Christians (most of them) give them complete respect during the RANTS AND RAVES against believers and still get on their knees at night and PRAY for them they pray that they will forgive and repent and JOIN US in being a part of the KINGDOM that is to come ...WE DONT PRAY FOR YOU TO GO TO HELL ..BUT TO GET OUT OF GOING TO HELL >.......that is really really ungrateful of you all ..And you say you have love and know what love is .....what kind of LOVE is it that yall think you have ...if that love is only for other Athiests ..(your being very prejudice) ...and have no love for your fellow man (WHICH WE ALL ARE)
Plus all your speeches online are all about TOLERANCE ..where the heck is your tolerance you Athiests ?

You athiests talk about how cold and dangerous and hateful some SUPPOSED christians were (like Bush etc )(you Athiests are just as bad as he is ) ....and yet you Athiests are just as guilty of being that same way towards Christians ..

So who is being the hypocrites around here ?


Yeah I know now your gonna rant and rave at me now too ...ok go ahead I have my ears plugged ...lol

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by ashamedamerican


Wow that video about that dog saving another dog is really neat.
I dont think it says they have a concience though ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by ashamedamerican

 

Wow that video about that dog saving another dog is really neat.
I dont think it says they have a concience though ...

Well I'm sure glad you watched the video of the dog. (sarcasm)

Since people are coming into the thread defend their side of the arguement without reading the page,(which makes another good point for me, thank you for your assistance,)
I will post this again for you.
"This thread isn't for people to spew their religious dogma and rhetoric, it's a discussion of how irrational religious belief is hurting mankind as a whole."
It not about Sam Harris either.

Hey at least I watched it ....I also got through about 21 minutes of the first one.
Still listening to it .....even though I agree with alot of what he says about EXTREMISTS ...the rest is just lumping everyone into one lump ...really fair of him isnt it ..NOT >.


The gist of it is faith in anything except Science etc ...is the last taboo that needs to be gotten rid of ...and the Athiests and non faithists can live happily ever after ..with no more crime...no more evil ...no more killings ...just a happy world ...yeah ok ...NOT

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by ashamedamerican


I have to admit... that video of the dog was pretty cool.
But the thing is that you have you started a thread on religion, started going on about how a lot of reigious beliefs are delusional and then you go and tell all the religios people to not defend what they believe. Ya kinda cant go and expect everyone to sit there and agree with you buddy.

On topic tho: Religious beliefs arent hurting mankind..... people are. Its like saying that guns kill people or video games kill people. Religion doesnt hurt mankind, people hurt mankind.
And its pretty obvious that in EVERY aspect of society there are going to be hypocritical people and people who arent doing mankind any good. So dont go and act like athiests are the only good people in this world just because of a few "christians" or "religious" people screwed you over or whatever.

mmmm, how about a bit of 1 John 2 - 3 anyone?