Detained at Wal-Mart When Innocent. Cops called for cursing.

Originally posted by garayn

Originally posted by scotty18

Originally posted by garayn

Originally posted by scotty18
You said she does not carry ID because it "creeps her out" sorry but that is someone who has something to hide.

What could she have to hide at 17 years old? Really? I don't carry ID with me every time I leave my home either, and I don't feel that I'm wrong in doing that.

You know, you are right, what would a 17 year old have to hide. Silly me, I'm sorry.

Oh my. This isn't the issue being discussed, anyway. :-/

Actually it is, but you go ahead and file that in your brain right next to the idea that 17 year olds never have anything to hide.

reply to post by scotty18


I might have been too quick to say she has nothing to hide because she's 17. I'm sure many 17 year olds hide things, maybe she does as well. Hopefully this little tangent will die off now.

I would suspect that the Head of security is already know to police for being over zealous and a time waster.

Buts it good to see the police comming down on the side of the young people, there's a lot of "police brutality" on you tube showing inappropriate police behaviour conducted by a few rottens apples and to which the rest of the normal decent police officers have no way to reply and gives all the police officers an unfair reputation.

I know where i live before a store employee can stop someone for shop lifting but the person has to be outside of the building, unless the store is in a mall, then they can stop them once they are outside of the store. that way they have committed the theft.

Now in wal mart's case here where i live all their stores are super centers. and they have that area just inside the doors where they keep the carts and scooters and stuff. They have to wait to stop shoplifters until they have passed the registers and the anti theft sensors in the doorway leading to the cart area before the outside doors.

Once a shoplifter or suspected shoplifter is in that area they can be stopped, by the store employees and then they are taken to an office in the back of the store and wait for the local police to get there. then the local cops handcuff you and parade you through the store in your shiny new matching bracelets and take you to jail. If you refuse to walk back to the office the employees can't make you go but they can try to keep you from leaving the store until the cops get there.

when detained by security or store employees here you are under citizens arrest. you can't forcefully make them go to the office or stay in the store but you can block the doors and refuse to move. and if they shove you can shove back. if they hit you can hit back in self defense but there had better be a camera catching the suspect hitting you first!

I have to say some wal mart store managers think they are god. i got banned from a wal mart here for cussing out a woman who ran into me on purpose with her cart because she was in a hurry and wanted down a crowded isle to get a bag of sugar! Its not like i could move because there were people ahead of me blocking the isle.

reply to post by Jomina


Indiana doesn't allow for citizen arrest?

_______________________________________________________________________

I don't know how many times i have picked something up at wal mart carried it around the store with the intentions of Buying it. then while walking around decide i didn't want to buy it and just put it on a shelf.

I don't know how many times i have been followed around in wal mart in the winter time when i wear my trench coat after picking a small item up and walking around the store with it then just put it on a shelf and leave the store.

every time i do it i get followed by a wal mart employee until they realize i notice them following me around, then the plain clothes security guys start following me. And yes security in wal mart wear plain clothes, they do not wear uniforms! And every time i pick up a small item and walk around then put it down and walk around some more then leave the store i get stopped after crossing the anti theft device and before leaving the building.

3 times the store security has grabbed me by the arm and all 3 time they wind up in an arm bar and slammed against a vending machine. 3 times they have tried to press assault charges against me and 3 times the crooked cops have came and laughed at them when i say it was self defense because they grabbed me and they weren't in uniform.

now the security guards know not to grab me and i will stop if they ask me to stop. i will even be nice and empty my pockets to prove i didn't take anything and then they let me go on my way.

reply to post by Raustin

I have to ask when you done LP were you in some sort of uniform or were you in plain clothes? If you were in plain clothes and you grab someone you leave yourself open for wrongful imprisonment, assault and attempted kidnapping charges. At least here in missouri you would anyway.



[edit on 12/8/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Resinveins


I do this all the time and have been calling Wal-Mart and Sams out on this for years.

I never show my receipt when asked to even if they demand it. I politely and calmly tell them in a loud enough voice to make a bit of a scene that if they feel I have stolen something they can call the police and have me arrested, charged with a crime and forced to show my receipt. My receipt and pat down will show that I have not stolen anything and I will file false imprisonment charges on them as well as public humiliation, harassment and anything else my lawyer can think of. I've never shown my receipt and I've not been banned.

People scream about having their rights taken away but we are giving our rights away little by little over things that are seemingly unimportant.

When the WM employee tells me it is company policy to show my receipt, I tell them that company policy does not supercede my constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure and being secure in my papers, etc.

I did once have a lady at the door who demanded to see my receipt and I waved her away, smiling, saying, "I don't think so". She grabbed my wrist to detain me. I stopped and calmly told her that I was fairly sure that Wal-Mart did not pay her enough to wrestle customers to the ground but that if she persisted in her assault and battery of me that I would feel threatened and be forced to defend myself in the most extreme manner.

She let go and said, "I'm calling security!" I said, "so you're not even security?!" She picked up the phone and called security, I whipped out my cell phone and called my attorney. Security decided that I didn't need to be detained.

My friends won't go shopping with me at Wal-Mart because they know that I will refuse showing my receipt each and every time they ask and my friends feel it is no big deal. It isn't a big deal and it's a pain to have to defend my rights every time I want to go grocery shopping but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Did anyone bother to DEMAND to see the video proof?
I hope they fry Wally over this.
And to be *never allowed into a Wal-Mart again* - probably the best thing that could happen to the girl and her friends... Though in all truth Wal-Mart should be FORCED to apologize to each and every girl detained.

Happy Holidays...

Originally posted by garayn
reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

 

It's doubtful. I suppose they could have carried it around and set it on a shelf somewhere, but this girl has never stolen anything and I can't imagine her starting now.

Whether they had or not, the Police need to be shown evidence of the theft. If the employees cannot show the footage of the crime, they can then be charged with false imprisonment.

If you are going to detain anyone for a crime, you have to be damn sure you have evidence to back it up.

To me it sounds like a bunch of Wal-mart lackies, with little intelligence and even less training went over the top and thought they somehow had some authority over other citizens.

Your friend should contact the company and demand an apology for wasting her time, causing embarrassment, making false accusations and for their employees over stepping their roles.

Good thing the cop sided with her instead of Wal-Mart.

If the cops had sided with Wal-Mart that poor girl would've been in for one hellish experience. Something you never want to experience .. or anything even like it.

Good Girl!

The Wal-Mart guy asked for her ID, but she refuses to carry ID, she says it creeps her out. He asked for her cellphone and she said "Hell no." And cursed him out. (Hahah, teenagers. She is very smart, but she's still a teenager.) Then he called the cops. My friend and the rest of the girls had to sit in the cold for 45 minutes waiting for the cops.

This is exactly how I instructed my girls if any 40 year old creep approaches them pretending to have some form of authority. Take charge right from the get go and NEVER allow them to touch you or your purse or knapsack or give them a verbal chance to try to pretend to have authority over you.

What the hell is he doing following gaggles of girls around Wal Mart with a camera in a tiny room by himself for anyway???? That sort of stinks right their!

unlawful detention... tell your friend to hire a good lawyer.. that head of security will be fired right away lol

[edit on 8-12-2008 by thefreepatriot]

I had the guy at the corner store ask me what was in my pockets b4.He THOUGHT he saw me put something in my pocket which I did.I counted what money I needed and put the rest in my pocket.
With a store full of people and knowing i did nothing wrong I put him on the spot.I said i will do more then that and I took all my clothes off while heckling him.He begged me to put my clothes on as costumers got their entertainment for the day.
I still go there and he doesn't work there anymore.We laughed about it later.I just told him I wanted him to make sure I didn't steal anything....I hope he thinks next time.

i live in pa and according to our commonwealths laws you do not have to carry id on you unless you have to prove your age such as buying alcohol cigs etc or driving. i do construction in many private developments so i know how over zealous rent a cops can be. for your friend maybe someone did try and steal something and put it back before leaving the store. in pa you MUST LEAVE the store before being detained for shoplifting. i loathe walmart- one time i came out with a cart of groceries and saw a friend i haven't seen in years and we were chatting and laughing on the side of my truck and this guy with a little green light on a golf cart gets out and tells us to break it up and get out of here. i tell him go f yourself i just spent $150 in your store and we are catching up on oldtimes screw you. then my coat opens (i didn't intentionally show it just moving around and the wind) and he sees i have my 45 so he calls the police. i have a ccw so i just waited and 4 cops show up(all of who i know and know i never go anywhere without my baby) and they were pissed at him. they could have been out preventing a real crime. needless to say he got fired and i now boycott walmart. if he had touched me would have been one more statistic. only my gf is allowed to touch me

reply to post by whitewave


Ahh thanks for sharing that Whitewave.. I was beginning to think I was the only one who found their intrusiveness objectionable, ntm illegal. I see way too many people just comply with their requests. People who probably don't know that they have the right to refuse the request... and are so non-confrontational that they'll just give in rather than go through the hassle of calling Wal-Mart on their BS.

Trust me, I know what you mean about having people refuse to go there with you Not that I refuse their demands every time... sometimes it's more time efficient for me just to flash them the receipt and go... but yeah more often than not I'll take the time to set them straight.

What bugs me the most is that it seems that it is usually an elderly person they send over to initially accost you. Someone who, if they are stupid enough to lay hands on me, I probably won't defend myself vigorously against. Sort of like an old person shield of sorts... which I personally find despicable.

I think any more though, that I will take the time, and make the effort to fight their tactics at every opportunity. Sort of looking forward to it now actually as recounting my own first experience with them has kind of got my blood boiling all over again

I see a few people here believe in the guilty until proven innocent theory. Good belief in todays world.

It's a 17 year old so there must be something to hide? Must be guilty of something. Could be. May be she is just human. But I bet she isn't a head of a corporation stealing from investors, scamming the government or falsifying accounting records. Probably not a serial killer, child molester or multiple counts of driving intoxicated but still driving.

What crap. Hope Wal-mart get sued and the security man get canned. He can find a new power trip.

Whats the big deal in showing a receipt when asked for it? Why cause a public scene over something that would take 3 seconds?

Seems there are some who would rather cuase a problem than try to avoid one for the sake of claiming wrongful arrest or harrasment.

To me, you are causing the harrasment and are part of the problem.

If your concerned about privacy, then do your shopping online and dont go to a public place like a wal mart.

Public places are not private. When you understand that concept, which is so simple a pre grade schooler can understand, then perhaps you will see how stupid and rediculous it is to cause a scene over a slip of paper called a receipt.

Im sure the judge will ask when you go to court.."why didnt you just show the woker your receipt and tie up my court room over this nonsense when there are other more critical cases to deal with?"

Im sure your lawyer would love to develop a reputaiton in representing clients who like to tie up the court system over such childish behavior in refusing to show a receipt.



Cheers!!!!

when detained by security or store employees here you are under citizens arrest. you can't forcefully make them go to the office or stay in the store but you can block the doors and refuse to move. and if they shove you can shove back. if they hit you can hit back in self defense but there had better be a camera catching the suspect hitting you first!

in calif you are not under "citizens arrest". they can only ask you to stay.

they are trained to "block the doors and refuse to move".
this is a trick if they think you are shoplifting and force your way out they have you even if you don't have anything on you when the cops get there.
at the least they have you for assault and battery.

if they shove you can shove back. if they hit you can hit back in self defense but there had better be a camera catching the suspect hitting you first!

in Calif any one that is assaulted can use justifiable force to protect them self.
that means if you assault a security guard blocking the door they can beat the **** out of you.


the best thing to do if they stop you for shoplifting and you did not is to stand there and refuse to move.
and tell then if a loud voice that you are not going to move till the cops get there. this is to make sure that other customers are aware that something is going on. there are people that will stick around just to see what happens.

DO NOT go anywhere with the security people. they know where the cameras work and don't, what happens outside of camera view did not happen.

DO NOT let them take any bags from you. They could drop something in them just to incriminate you. if you payed for it it is YOUR property security people do not have the rights to search them once they have made it known that they believe you are a shoplifter.

DO NOT empty your pockets for the security people. They have no legal rights to ask you to. only the cops do.

When i was a federal security guard i had to go for retraining for my guard certificate every two years, And many times i would be in training with stores security people that would brag about setting up undesirables that they did not want in there stores,
There targets were street people, bag lady's, Gypsy groups, groups of teens, or anyone else they did not like the looks of.
They would set them up with a pack of gum or other cheap idem not to get them arrested but to get the cops to give them a trespass warning and ban them from the store in the future.

www.dawilde.com...

Wrongfully Detained for Shoplifting?
Peachtree City, Georgia False Arrest Attorney
A store owner has the right to briefly detain a customer suspected of stealing. However, they do not have the right to lock you in a room, manhandle you or interrogate you for hours.

If security staff mistreated you or held you against your will without summoning police, you may have a claim for false arrest or false imprisonment. Contact attorney Doug Wilde to discuss the merits of your case in a free consultation. We represent residents of Fayette County and surrounding counties in the Atlanta area and northern Georgia.
g?

If all the facts are correct, you should make an example of the store with getting legal advice. This is no way to treat another humanbeing and is totally unexceptable.

Well each state and county and city have their own laws regarding store owners/employees detaining someone who is suspected of shoplifting.

The puzzling thing to me is that every store out there has security cameras that can get very clean detailed video these days, not the grainy fuzzy looking stuff of 10 years ago. Its very easy to see someone trying to shove something in their pants or purse. And those security guys are trained to spot activity that 99 precent of the time suggest some kind of shoplifting activity going on.

For this case, it would be interesting to see what exactly got caught on those security videos vs what the defense is stating.

It will no doubt be presented in the court.




Cheers!!!!

Most everywhere that was civilized by the 1900's had profanity laws.
Victorian ladies were said to faint at such blustery use of language.
Society has just stopped enforcing if they ever where enforced.

reply to post by RFBurns


What's the big deal with showing the receipt? I'll explain it to you, in words that yes, even a preschooler should be able to comprehend... you might even be able to see the logic in them yourself

The big deal is... I had done nothing wrong, and was sure of it, and refused to be treated as if I had.

The big deal is... Wal-Mart does not get to make up their own rules or laws concerning detaining people, searching people or assaulting people.

The big deal is... they have no right to stop me, try to detain me, assault me, harass me, or make any kind of demands of me whatsoever, UNLESS they have some kind of evidence that I have stolen something from their store. Which I knew they did not have, as all I did was stand in line, pay for my purchase and attempt to leave.

The big deal is... I don't have to stay home and shop online or someplace else, as long as my conduct is that of a law abiding citizen... which it was.

The big deal is... I don't give up my rights to not be detained, or harassed, or assaulted without cause... not without a fight anyway.

And yes, I have no problem with the public scene they provoke by attempting to detain me, or physically restrain me without cause. Just because you would rather give up your rights rather than have that confrontation, don't expect me to. The fact that you would rather give in to their unlawful demands rather than cause a scene, speaks volumes as to the quality of your character... or lack thereof. Sometimes sir, a little disturbance is necessary to wake up the sheep standing all about, and to let the wolf know that some people don't fear to stand up for themselves.

As for what a judge might say or a lawyer might think?? I'll worry about that when I break a law if that's ok with you?