Porn...

apaulo, you want an opinion?

Here's mine:
I think that the very assertion that porn is harmful and should be illegal is insanity. It's just one more thing for people to blame their own bad behaviors on, like video games and television. It drives me crazy that people are trying to get every little thing taken away, and if they get one thing they just keep pushing on to the next.

Watching porn is not immoral, and I say this because no one can really explain what makes it immoral. There's nothing wrong with it. You're not causing any harm to anyone in watching it. So logically: It's not causing anyone any harm, it's not immoral.

I don't understand what is so bad about it? It's not the flame that started the fire.

It also makes no sense that prostitution is illegal. It shouldn't be, there's no harm in that either.

The problem lies in those members of society that think sex is some horrible awful thing that should be kept behind closed doors and never spoken of. They say that children shouldn't know about sex, when that makes no sense. It's not a bad thing, it's just a fact.

It's not wrong. Stop trying to make things illegal that shouldn't be. You're just making criminals out of people who really have done nothing wrong.

First of all...

Everyone has a different definition of what is, and what is not porn.
To outlaw something, you need specifics. You just may find classic novels being outlawed as porn. Heck, even the Bible has references to rape, sodomy, etc. Going to outlaw that too?

Second...

Porn likely prevents many sex crimes, by providing an outlet that is harmless to others

Third...

Outlawing it would increase crime, just as outlawing other vices does (i.e. look at Prohibition)...

Fourth...

The anonymity of the Internet would make outlawing porn impossible anyhow, so it's an exercise in futility....

reply to post by Gazrok


Gazrok, you make some good points… points that I agree with to an extent. Another earlier poster made the same assertions and I agreed with him too.

I’m not interested in convincing people that my rant should be theirs.
If you love your porn, fine.

Love it.

That’s your prerogative.

However, anyone who is really concerned about what is or isn’t moral would never endorse porn. You don’t have to be religious to be “spiritual” by the general definition.

Generally speaking, spiritual means to be more concerned about others than yourself. It is to be more selfless and less selfish.

Are religious people the ONLY ones who are altruistic? NO! But don’t tell me you are looking to evolve, advance, or become more selfless and still think that porn is moral.

This thread has some great content, too.

Why would someone who endorses porn be considered selfish? Or not altruistic? I don't understand your argument here. Personally, I do whatever I can to help someone whenever I can. I also don't think that porn is a bad thing.

Have to agree with the above.

Also, think of the many people employed by the porn industry. This is a large industry. If it were somehow eradicated, think of all of those now out of a job. I'm not talking about just actresses or models, but also secretaries, janitors, technicians, etc. How is thousands losing their job altruistic?

Ahh...see? It isn't near as black and white as originally perceived from the lofty heights of that high horse you're on...

If you want to feel you're the only "moral" person because you eschew porn, go right ahead...but meanwhile, you won't keep me from doing a good deed now and then, while my wife and I enjoy some occassional porn....

reply to post by Gazrok




Am I guilty of judging an individual, Gazrok?

To pass personal judgment on someone would be hypocritical and self-righteous.

If you can find where I am guilty of this, please let me know. ( I would be happy to apologize.) I really, REALLY despise arrogance. My mission in life is to become more conscientious of the fact that I am an absolute zero… nothing.

I have judged a THING. I have judged it honestly, without ego involved. Without a selfish motive…

Glad to see that you are concerned about the peoples well being who are employed by the porn industry. So am I. I would love to do my part to help these people get an education and a respectable job. I’d help fund one of them through college. More if I could by starting a charity. Sound good to you? In fact, I bet there is a church that would gladly support it by hiring people to handle the details.

reply to post by apaulo


Why is a job in the porn industry not a "respectable" one? It's just a job like any other job. You go to work, do your bit and make yourself some money. Honestly, I don't see what it is about the porn industry that you have a problem with. If these people don't like their jobs, they are welcome to find new ones just like everyone else.

Here is a good list I found from another ex-porn addict, like myself.

What's so bad about pornography?

1)  Pornography feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied. 
2)  Pornography sexualizes the viewer's mindset.  
3)  Pornography promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction. 
4)  Pornography intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others. 
5)  Pornography addiction can lead to debt. 
6)  By viewing and/or purchasing porn, viewers are supporting the porn industry and facilitating its growth.  By viewing porn, the viewer is also contributing to the sexual exploitation of whoever or whatever is in the images he or she is viewing.
7)  Looking at porn can damage the viewer's family relationships, not to mention increasing the chance of his or her spouse and children finding the material. 
8) Looking at porn at work could damage the viewer's reputation, decrease his or her  productivity and lead to job loss9)  Looking at porn can damage the viewer's current or future marriage sex life. 
10)  Looking at porn will increase the viewer's tendency to lie, because he or she will have a natural desire to keep it secret to avoid criticism, embarrassment, shame and/or having to surrender their habit.
11)  Looking at porn can lead a person into masturbation addiction.
12)  Looking at porn brings serious spiritual consequences  For example, it opens the doorway to spiritual oppression and confusion in the viewer's life. 

[edit on 15-1-2009 by apaulo]

So am I. I would love to do my part to help these people get an education and a respectable job.

I'm sure there are plenty of porn magazine editors and staffers with Bachelor's and Master's Degrees making an excellent living....

You're only thinking about the models/actors... This is an entire industry, and you'd be surprised, but for example, a lot of the decision makers in Playboy are women, and educated women at that.

While you were attacking a thing...porn, you were also asserting your own personal beliefs that anyone who indulges in porn is ipso facto immoral. Of course, you are entitled to such beliefs, but when stating them, don't expect not to hear some dissenting opinions....

Another good link...
Troubled with addiction

Five stages of addiction

Early exposure.

Most guys who get addicted to porn start early. They see the stuff when they are very young, and it gets its foot in the door.
Addiction. Later comes addiction. You keep coming back to porn. It becomes a regular part of your life. You're hooked. You can't quit.

Escalation.
After a while, escalation begins. You start to look for more and more graphic porn. You start using porn that would have disgusted you when you started. Now it excites you.

Desensitization.
Eventually, you start to become numb. Even the most graphic, degrading porn doesn't excite you anymore. You become desperate to feel the same thrill again but can't find it.

Acting out sexually.
At this point, many men make a dangerous jump and start acting out sexually. They move from the paper and plastic images of porn to the real world.

When I personally got to the "acting out phase," I started fantasizing about what it would be like to actually rape a woman.

I finally tried it one night when I saw a woman who "fit" the scenario that porn had taught me to look for. I was lucky. Very lucky. I didn't go through with it. After being reported, arrested and spending some time in jail, I finally was able to begin the process of weeding out the lies in my life that porn had put there.

Other men aren't so lucky. I realize now that with just a little push, I could have gone over the edge. I could have raped that woman and then killed her to cover my tracks. That's how Ted Bundy got started. When the porn he was addicted to wasn't enough anymore, he tried the real thing — rape, and then murder. When he succeeded, he did it again. And again. Pornography addiction is very serious.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by apaulo]

reply to post by Gazrok


I’m not contending the expected confrontation… only hypocrisy.

You made a personal attack, but I did not.

I guess you take the subject matter personal so you posted an emotional response by saying that I was on my “high horse.”

1)  Pornography feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied. 
Never satisfied? I beg to differ. It serves TO satisfy and I know a good majority of guys that use it specifically FOR that.

2)  Pornography sexualizes the viewer's mindset.
Would you mind explaining just what the problem IS here?
  
3)  Pornography promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction. 
Destructive practices like what?

4)  Pornography intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others. 
How do you figure? People can be altruistic AND watch porn...moot point.

5)  Pornography addiction can lead to debt. 
Only if you're dumb enough to pay for it.

6)  By viewing and/or purchasing porn, viewers are supporting the porn industry and facilitating its growth.  By viewing porn, the viewer is also contributing to the sexual exploitation of whoever or whatever is in the images he or she is viewing.
These people are not being exploited. They choose to work in the industry.

7)  Looking at porn can damage the viewer's family relationships, not to mention increasing the chance of his or her spouse and children finding the material. 
This is only true if people continue to demonize something that is unnecessarily demonized. This is an outdated taboo and not so many people find porn to be so bad that it would damage family relationships.

8) Looking at porn at work could damage the viewer's reputation, decrease his or her  productivity and lead to job loss
You shouldn't be looking at porn at work anyway...you're supposed to be working.

9)  Looking at porn can damage the viewer's current or future marriage sex life. 
Mind explaining why?

10)  Looking at porn will increase the viewer's tendency to lie, because he or she will have a natural desire to keep it secret to avoid criticism, embarrassment, shame and/or having to surrender their habit.
See my response for number 7

11)  Looking at porn can lead a person into masturbation addiction.
[sarcasm]Oh yes, because masturbation harms SO many people.[/sarcasm]

12)  Looking at porn brings serious spiritual consequences  For example, it opens the doorway to spiritual oppression and confusion in the viewer's life. 
Spiritual oppression? How exactly? People only feel guilt due to the reasons outlined in answer 7.

Porn Illegal?!!? HELL NO don't take my porn away from me. SHESH oh pete what else would I do? Actually DATE someone! OH GOOD GOD NO!

1) Pornography feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied.

If you aren't satisfied, you aren't doing it right.

2) Pornography sexualizes the viewer's mindset.

As with any other animal in nature, we have a primal, sexual urge. Don't see the problem here.

3) Pornography promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction.

Please, there are many other factors for destructive practices, such as drugs, etc. involved in almost any such practice you'd mention.

4) Pornography intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others.

Wrong again, I'm considered very generous by most who know me, and I certainly get a "high" from helping others. And, as a lover, I satisfy my gal first, thanks...

5) Pornography addiction can lead to debt.

With all of the free porn out there, who would pay for it....never could get that.

6) By viewing and/or purchasing porn, viewers are supporting the porn industry and facilitating its growth. By viewing porn, the viewer is also contributing to the sexual exploitation of whoever or whatever is in the images he or she is viewing.

Those in professional porn are doing so by choice, so it can't really be called exploitation. Besides, that's like claiming fast food restaurants "exploit" teens.

7) Looking at porn can damage the viewer's family relationships, not to mention increasing the chance of his or her spouse and children finding the material.

Excessive porn could indicate an actual problem, but some now and then? Besides, many couples occassionally view porn together... As for children, any responsible parent is certainly capable of secreting this away from young eyes. They have this remarkable invention called a lock, that is perfect for such a purpose. Works for guns too!

8) Looking at porn at work could damage the viewer's reputation, decrease his or her productivity and lead to job loss

Looking at porn at work is just plain stupid.

9) Looking at porn can damage the viewer's current or future marriage sex life.

No way, porn addiction? Sure. Just looking at it? No....

10) Looking at porn will increase the viewer's tendency to lie, because he or she will have a natural desire to keep it secret to avoid criticism, embarrassment, shame and/or having to surrender their habit.

Not if one is honest about their porn...such as those opposing you are, here in this thread.

11) Looking at porn can lead a person into masturbation addiction.

[sarcasm]Oh yes, because masturbation harms SO many people.[/sarcasm] Exactly...just who is this hurting?

12) Looking at porn brings serious spiritual consequences For example, it opens the doorway to spiritual oppression and confusion in the viewer's life.

There are many older religions that actually use sex to reach a higher spiritual state. And, it's a valid argument, after all, it's part of procreation, a miraculous practice one might argue...

ok from a females stand point i think porn should not be illegal. Does it make peoples impulses more frequent or hurt people I cant say. it is possible but as some previous posts have stated to make it illegal will make it more desireable. thats just the way of life-people want what they cant have.


and there are so many people employed in this industry making loads of money for their scenes, they are not forced there, they CHOSE to show up to work each day and have the job they have. There are laws in place to protect youngsters such as no "actresses" under the age of 18. are these laws enforced i dont know, but they are there and that is a step in the right direction for me. and as someone else pointed out that you dont want the pervert next door out rampaging the streets, exactly, i dont know my neighbors and i surely dont want to find out they are creepy sex addicts who lost there only way of release and now need to take it out on me. NO THANK YOU! KEEP IT LEGAL!

I am trying to find the book that addresses our country's addiction to addiction. He was upset everyone wanted to be a victim and blame something else for their problems. They did not want to be responsible for anything in their lives.
I find it amusing there are porn addicts and sex addicts. They also like to call alcoholism and gambling a disease, but yet there is no virus to cause those problems.

No one is forcing anyone to go to an adult book store or download any pornography.

Just don't watch it yourself. Don't decide what we want to watch or don't want to watch for us. :shk:

i think taking cigarettes off the market or even alcohol has a better chance than stopping porn altogether.

Being that I run a Porn shop... I would have to firmly disagree with you from start to finish.




Firstly MOST of the customers that my wife and I help are, in fact, older married couples.

Secondly, Why is it that people ALWAYS want the govt to do their own jobs?
Why is it that people are SOOOOOOOOO weak that they are unable to GOVERN themselves? Why is that so tough?


Why? Why? WHY?

If you dont like Porn then fine...... But for the love of God take some self responsibility and STOP trying to control what OTHERS do with their lives.


Spirituality and SEX go hand in hand... just look at most pagan religions from which many of todays religions stole from and warped. Removing sex from spirituality is about as smart as removing toilet paper from a stall.


And as far as lowering sex crimes with the eradication of porn.... My god you could not be farther from the truth...... Without an outlet people WILL still find a way to "get their rocks off" and usually that would be in a much more harful way to others.


Lastly: 'Prohibition fails in that it attempts to legislate a mans appetite and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes' paraphrase Abraham Lincoln.


Ie.... Stop getting the govt to try to do your job.....Govern yourself.... let others live free and stop trying to control and manipulate people to your own warped version of morality.



I wont come into your house and tell you how to live... so do me a favor and give the same respect to others...

Tone


EDIT:

Sorry, not to sound like a jerk and all, I am simply adamant about personal liberties in the 'Land of the Free'. Freedom means free, not the govts freedom to remove my freedoms. What consenting Adults choose to do with their time is between themselves and NO govt. nor institution should hold sway over such activities.

[edit on 1/20/2009 by TONE23]