McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

Originally posted by budski


This does raise a few questions, regardless of political affiliation.

Who are we to believe - a man who has shown he is quite prepared to get into the gutter to further his ambitions?

Or an ex prison guard with little or nothing to gain or lose by saying this.

I have no doubt that the conditions were tough for POW's, but does this amount to torture?
Especially in light of gitmo, where waterboarding is seen as "vigorous questioning"

McCain knows the real answer to this - maybe in his mind it WAS torture, but according to the ex guard, it wasn't.

A matter of perception then?

Or another lie.........

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I pretty much despise McCain, but how about we listen to his fellow soldiers instead of his enemy? I have no doubt that he was tortured, this guard coming to say this is 100% political. What would he have accomplished to make up that he was tortured to begin with? I mean in the very beginning...nothing.

Someone smashed a rifle butt into my shoulder, breaking it. Someone else stuck a bayonet in my ankle and groin.

the punishment sessions began. I was hauled into an empty room and kept there for four days. At intervals, the guards returned to administer beatings. One guard held me while the others pounded away. They cracked several of my ribs and broke a couple of teeth.

John McCain's account of Viet Cong torture

If by "not tortured" you mean that they didn't rip his thumbs off or put him in the Iron Maiden, then sure. But I think it would be a stretch of the imagination to say that he was treated kindly.

Of course McCain wasn't tortured. Remember that in Gitmo, the conditions were tough but not inhuman like the POW guard said.

Originally posted by budski

McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

www.guardian.co.uk

The Republican US presidential candidate John McCain was not tortured during his captivity in North Vietnam, the chief prison guard of the jail in which he was held has claimed.

In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Nguyen Tien Tran acknowledged that conditions in the prison were "tough, though not inhuman". But, he added: "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Of course he is going to say that!

I'll believe the words of his fellow prisoners any day over the prison guards. All of them bear the scars of their time spent in hell.

Just look at the difference in John McCain's appearance before and after his time spent in hell.

reply to post by dbates


I don't think that anyonje could say he was treated kindly - but the point seems to have passed many by, that what he has said about gitmo NOT being torture, is pretty much what happened to him.

Except when it happened to him, it WAS torture.

It was always something I intended to introduce - I just introduced it sooner than I wanted to.

Also, I posted a link to a piece written by another POW, who calls McCain a good friend, and yet his account of what happened to McCain differs quite a bit.....

reply to post by budski

No, at GITMO they don't break your ribs and knock out your teeth. And to think that McCain actually received special treatment since he was an Admiral's son. Other prisoners were hung from their arms till their shoulders broke and had their thumbs removed.

Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by budski

 

No, at GITMO they don't break your ribs and knock out your teeth. And to think that McCain actually received special treatment since he was an Admiral's son. Other prisoners were hung from their arms till their shoulders broke and had their thumbs removed.

There is evidence to suggest they DO do that at gitmo, abu ghraib and ALL the other prisons - and we're not talking about other prisoners, we're talking about McCain

McCain was never tortured. He was the son of a respectable admiral and the vietcongs knew who he was. He was well treated and made several propaganda videos for the vietcongs.

The only thing he have from his ``torture`` is his broken arm, and it's because he's an incompetent twat. He got shot down, 3 times. And when he was captured, when he ejected from his plane, he did not keep his arm near his chest and it got hit.

And let's not forget all his other crimes, corruption and BS supporting Bush, founding PNAC, voting for torture... ect... Sorry, McCain is a lying scumbag and he's a shame for his father.

reply to post by on_yur_6

Senator McCain's before and after photos aren't any more remarkable than those of Marines after a 13 month tour of duty. He actually looks better than the guys getting off of commercial flights as they arrived home after departing from a period of intense combat.

So a prison guard can remember EXACTLY who John Mccain was, remember EXACTLY what they did/did not do to this ONE man, by name from over 40 years ago and with only a few weeks or so to go in the elections happens to remember and speak out about just this ONE man...lol...thats laughable!

As for LOKE and other members wanting proof to dismiss the guards story...ummm how about proof this guy is/was even a guard at all???? Why don't I see you screaming for proof of that?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The only thing he have from his ``torture`` is his broken arm, and it's because he's an incompetent twat. He got shot down, 3 times. And when he was captured, when he ejected from his plane, he did not keep his arm near his chest and it got hit.

And I take it you were flying next to him when he ejected...watched him eject improperly and KNOW FIRST HAND THROUGH YOUR OWN EYES that this is EXATLY what happened...hahah...damn people are truly full of it on this site sometimes!

I am no fan of either candidate...they both suck, and they will both ruin the US further in their own ways...just like Bush, Clinton, etc...did...so no need to be all excited about an election that means NOTHING anymore.

I saw a military channel documentary on McCain's ship a week or 2 ago that had some footage from a french reporter while he was a pow, he seemed happy, he was laying in bed snuggled up smoking a joint. He claims its a cig, so I can only assume he thinks we're stupid but that's beside the point.

I don't imagine anyone enjoys captivity but he didn't appear abused in the footage. On the other hand if your a POW, your gonna get pumped for info, and torture is a very loose term. He very well might have been tortured in any number of ways but he seems no worse for the wear, no harm no foul. Its the military after all, your using the most advanced technology of your day to blow people to bits, if captured IMO, your a good as dead. If I were a pilot and I got shot down, honestly, I'd be surprised at any level of compassion.

reply to post by deltaboy


Hey Delta I have to agree with you 100% x 5..lol.....how is it people can dount Mccains story of torture, etc....and have the fortitude to question it and wonder etc....but the minute one of these scumbags at GITMO cries foul all of a sudden its: The US tortures people, or Oh these poor men at gitmo, and when a guard speaks out and says.."the detainees/POW's at gitmor are not tortured" these idiots cry out...oh he's being payed off, or he's a liar, etc.....gotta love it....

Unbelievable to me that it is acceptable to call Bush and Co. "war criminals" because of the "brutallity" (their words, not mine) of waterboarding... a practice not even universally considered torture... yet we are supposed to accept the flatly insulting concept that the Hanoi Hilton didn't practice torturing their captives? They only saved his life 2 days after his capture when they discovered he was an admiral's son and, therefore, a very valuable barganing chip to be used. The man's surgical and medical procedures were performed without any anesthesia and he was beaten daily. Furthermore, it was the Vietnamese who were responsible for his crushed shoulder, having destroyed it with a smash from a rifle after the crash.

Anyone who claims that isn't torture, makes a complete ass of themselves criticizing anything that happens or happened in Guantanimo Bay or in Abu Girhab.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by loam

 

If you don't like the article, write to the guardian.

I simply asked questions - I drew no conclusions, and frankly, I'm a little concerned by your attitude, which seems partisan to say the least.

we deny ignorance by asking these questions - not by attempting to ridicule those who ask them.

Exactly. Kinda funny if you question McCain and his stay in the Hanoi Hilton you get ridiculed. Im sure it wasnt pleasant there at all in fact Im sure some people got slapped around but the fact is that crash put him in serious condition and to say that there was no help from anyone to help him survive is not denying ignorance thats being ignorant. I totally believe the Vietnamese guy. Like you said what does he have to gain by these statements?

[edit on 14-10-2008 by mybigunit]

I didnt have to read the original post to realize this is a lie.

Its not like he was a POW and they were having a tea party.
Or some 20 year long conspiracy

Just more Obama-Nation slander

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Who said anything about "captives", plural?

TBH I'd probably believe an awfull lot of people before I believed McCain.

I'd also wonder why he is so VERY opposed to releasing documents and information about American prisoners of war in Vietnam and the missing in action who have still not been accounted for.

If it's such hell, why has he oppsed everything relating to this?

Something to hide perhaps?

Budski,
One of the drivers I work with was a POW for 7 countem' 7 years. Three of those at the infamous Hanoi Hilton, He was not an officer but just a Sgt. when captured. He ended up in a jail three blocks from the 'Hilton'. His recollection is that you could hear the screams of our men being tortured at that facility nearly every night. To say that the son of an Admiral would not be tortured for any and all information McCain might have on his father and what he knew is to ignore the entire situation during that conflict. This report is utter nonsense. The records of what hapened to our men there is copius and exact in its nature. What BS!!!!!

Zindo

Usually a good rule of thumb is to take both sides of the story, and realize the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I'm not saying it did or didn't happen. I thought the idea of this site was to keep an open mind to all news sources, balance that against the MSM, and figure out the truth.

Not beating people down who don't agree with your worldview.

I really cannot believe we are having this discussion.

The man can not even lift his arms above his shoulders. First, the NVA tie your hands behind your back, then your elbows get tied together. At this point you get yanked clear off the ground with all your weight on your shoulder blades until they pop out of joint. Yeah, I bet thats alot of fun. I forgot to mention that they let you just "hang out" like that for a few hours. I guess it helps pass the time.

Now I do not condone torture in anyway, form, or reason, but what I just described really comes close to having to stand with your legs bent at a 45 degree angle for a few hours.

This man was also given the choice of leaving Vietnam early because of who he was and he said NO. That is enough to have earned my respect.

And just to make it clear, I will NOT vote for this man as president.

When people start to say: its the vietnam people fault he got a broken shouldet etc etc. i can only point you towards 2 kinds of people who bears the responsebility.

1.The government who drafted and put these young people into a war in a foreign country where their government had nothing to do.

2.The poor drafted soldiers parents who did not defend their childrens right not to go to war for TPTB.

Best regards.

Loke.