atheists stick their head in the sand/ignore probability!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH, Thank you for that...any thoughts on the other info presented???

OT

Faith

Definition: “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Heb. 11:1) True faith is not credulity, that is, a readiness to believe something without sound evidence or just because a person wants it to be so. Genuine faith requires basic or fundamental knowledge, acquaintance with evidence, as well as heartfelt appreciation of what that evidence indicates. Thus, although it is impossible to have real faith without accurate knowledge, the Bible says that it is “with the heart” that one exercises faith.—Rom. 10:10.

Why do many people not have faith?

Faith is a fruit of God’s spirit, and God gladly gives his spirit to those who seek it. (Gal. 5:22; Luke 11:13) So persons without faith are not seeking that spirit, or they are doing so for a wrong purpose or are resisting its operation in their lives. Many things influence this:

Lack of accurate Bible knowledge: The Bible is a product of God’s spirit, being inspired by God. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17; 2 Sam. 23:2) Failure to study it hinders any development of true faith. Although church members may have Bibles, if they have been taught the ideas of men instead of the Word of God, they will lack real faith in God and his purpose. To solve life’s problems, they will be inclined to rely on their own ideas and those of other humans.—Compare Matthew 15:3-9.

Disillusionment with religion: Many have been disillusioned by the hypocrisy of the churches of Christendom, which claim to teach God’s Word but fail to live in harmony with what it says. Others were adherents to a non-Christian religion, but they saw bad fruitage from its practices or found that their beliefs did not really help them to cope with the problems of life. Lacking accurate knowledge of the true God, such persons draw away from everything related to religion.—Compare Romans 3:3, 4; Matthew 7:21-23.

Do not understand God’s permission of wickedness: Most people do not understand why God permits wickedness and so blame him for all the bad things that take place. They do not realize that man’s inclination toward badness is not because of God’s will but because of the sin of Adam. (Rom. 5:12) They may be unaware of the existence of Satan the Devil and of his influence on world affairs, so they ascribe to God the vile things perpetrated by Satan. (1 John 5:19; Rev. 12:12) If they are to some extent aware of these things, they may feel that God is slow about taking action, because they do not see clearly the issue of universal sovereignty and do not grasp the fact that God’s patience down till this time affords them an undeserved opportunity for salvation. (Rom. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9) Also, they do not fully realize that God has a set time when he will destroy forever all who practice wickedness.—Rev. 22:10-12; 11:18; Hab. 2:3.

Lives dominated by fleshly desires and viewpoints: Generally, persons who lack faith that has real substance have devoted themselves to the pursuit of other interests. Some may say that they believe the Bible but they may never have thoroughly studied it or may have failed to meditate appreciatively on what they read, on the reasons for it, and how it applies to everyday life. (Compare 1 Chronicles 28:9.) In some cases, they failed to nourish the faith they had but, instead, allowed a desire for unrighteous things to dominate the inclination of their heart so that they drew away from God and his ways.—Heb. 3:12.

How can a person acquire faith?

Rom. 10:17: “Faith follows the thing heard.” (Compare Acts 17:11, 12; John 4:39-42; 2 Chronicles 9:5-8. A person must first find out what the Bible says, and he will strengthen his conviction if he examines it carefully so as to be convinced of its reliability.)

Rom. 10:10: “With the heart one exercises faith.” (By meditating on godly things to build up appreciation for them, a person impresses them on his figurative heart.)

Faith is strengthened when a person acts on God’s pr

reply to post by GMoney1


GMoney1,

There's a lot of meat in your post...OT needs some time to "marinate" on all of this...much content here...please give me some time, ok??

OT Challenged!!!!

reply to post by shihulud


I'm intrigueg by the meaning of your screen name "Shihulud". Please enlighten me.

I must say that Old Thinker is an evangelist in every sense of the word. His frequent posts seem to carry one thread or theme. To carry the message of Jesus Christ to the world oof mankind. Even if like in the times of Christ, that message is unwelcome. For my part I would have long since become exasperated by the lack of faith being displayed here. To deny the existence of an intelligent organizerof universal orderliness, would be as ludicrous as BELIEVING THAT THE VERY EXISTENCE OF CYBER SPACE CAME ABOUT BY CHANCE.!! No one with an ounce of intelligence could ascribe to such a belief. Yet you hold on to such views with great pride and reverence. Is this really an example of higher thinking? If it is then I humbly and very greatfully take my place among the unintellectual, the dummies of the True Christian world. I use the word True because sadly there are many who wear the name of Christ, prove false to it's power. I suspect that your views have been shaped by contact with such ones. As I wrote before accurate knowledge, and displays of true faith is what is essential. Not words but deeds befitting true belief, BASED ON FACT NOT MERE CREDULITY!!!

reply to post by shihulud


Hey what's up Shihulud!

Hope all is well...

BTW, I love your signature/good question you ask...

"what's so special about Jesus?"...I found your answer my brother, it's even got the same question on their web, pls see...individual.utoronto.ca...

PS: I too agree the BANTER is great!

reply to post by OldThinker


No problem OT, just thought that I would provide you with some provisions as you wage intellectual war fare with those lacking faith!!!

Faith is not a pocession of all as you well know. Nor does God seek a relationship with those who are not rightly disposed to his message of hope and peace. Though he is Almighty, he does not force or compel any to serve him, love him or even acknowlege his existence. The lack of faith on the part of earthling man does not make the Sovereign of the Universe any less real. I'm sure you would agree wouldn't you?

For those REALLY interested...really...here's another website answering the question posed by shihulud, who I greatly respect....

"If we are all God's son, What's so special about Jesus????"

Atheists, you gonna have to study on this one...OT prayin' for your search...

Please see...if you are ready...here...www.goodwordusa.org...

Originally posted by GMoney1
reply to post by OldThinker

 

No problem OT, just thought that I would provide you with some provisions as you wage intellectual war fare with those lacking faith!!!

Faith is not a pocession of all as you well know. Nor does God seek a relationship with those who are not rightly disposed to his message of hope and peace. Though he is Almighty, he does not force or compel any to serve him, love him or even acknowlege his existence. The lack of faith on the part of earthling man does not make the Sovereign of the Universe any less real. I'm sure you would agree wouldn't you?

Gmoney1,

Thanks so much for that....

Again, please give me some time to contemplate all the content here...OK?

OT is priviledged to be apart of this conversation...

Thanks to the ATS leaders for providing the opportunity here...

OT Honored!!!

While we are learning together....skeptics and followers alike...please take some time to review Saul of tarsus' comments on creation many many yrs ago...He said in Romans 1:20...For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

For those who want to go DEEP, please research the Greek...

OT out!
:

Originally posted by shihulud
Fire away friend, as many as you like....

G

OK, here's some more from OT...


Prediction: Jesus would come the first time after sixty-two "sevens" and the second time after seven "sevens"
OT: Daniel 9:24-26 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
NT: Matthew 2:1 “After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem
NT: Matthew 2:16 “When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.

Prediction: Jesus would die sixty two "sevens" after the order to rebuild Jerusalem
OT: Daniel 9:24-26 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
NT: Romans 5:16 “Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
NT: 1 Peter 3:18 “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

Prediction: Jesus would be the "seed of the woman" that would crush the serpent’s head
OT: Genesis 3:15 “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
NT: Galatians 4:4 “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,
1 John 3:8 “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

Prediction: Jesus would be the "seed of Abraham"
OT: Genesis 12:3 “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
NT: Matthew 1:1 “A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
NT: Acts 3:25 “And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'
NT: Galatians 3:16 “The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
Enjoy…….

OT out! I've got more....I hope I am not wasting my time here...and some who question Christianity are ...'looking'....

?????????????


:bnghd:

[edit on 14-9-2008 by OldThinker]

reply to post by GMoney1


Great post! OT needs encouragement, the sons of the enemy are out in force in this thread, that means brother OT has hit a spiritual grand slam for sure!

I do have issue with one aspect of your post:

"or even acknowlege his existence."

That's not true, there will be a day when EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue will confess. Hopefully for the sake of those that read this it happens while they are still alive.

May God Bless you OT, you tell it brother!!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by GMoney1

 

Great post! OT needs encouragement, the sons of the enemy are out in force in this thread, that means brother OT has hit a spiritual grand slam for sure!

I do have issue with one aspect of your post:

"or even acknowlege his existence."

That's not true, there will be a day when EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue will confess. Hopefully for the sake of those that read this it happens while they are still alive.

May God Bless you OT, you tell it brother!!

o_0 umm what? awesome i AM the sons of the enemy and out in force pretty much on my own ^_^

thanks glad to know you worry about me showing up

OT you skipped totally my poiint that using a mix of the OT and NT you can easily prove all modern chruches are against god

i only gave 3 examples but more is easier, when did you last sacrifice you bull and 2 sheep? god said do it forever jesus ddidnt say stop doing it

we all know what god looks like and jesus we have pictures and statues and are told explicitly not to in any way shape or form

so your predictions show jesus was the chosen one, mine show the church that followed jesus is an abomination unto the lord

ill admit jesus is real if you admit all christianity is against the will of jesus and god

my proofs as good as yours so what makes you right and me wrong except wishful thinking and stubborn belief

im not trying to offend OT, sitting here quoting lords of the rings or the lion the with and wardrobe as truth and ignoring anything anyone points out as wrong doesnt make me right. it just makes me appear ignorant and stubborn

and you dont seem that kinda guy to me





[edit on 15/9/08 by noobfun]

noobfun...thanks for your thoughts ... I'm using the Treo here, so l can just post quickly ...

What specific questions do you have for me?

I'll respond tonight, ok

OT @ work!!

reply to post by noobfun


Anyone who A: denies the relationship between the Father and the Son, and B: Denies Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God has the spirit of the antichrist.

Secondly, I'm NOT "scared" of you, your spiritual father was defeated 2,000 years ago at Calvary!!! You're an enemy for sure, but I still have love for you!

I think I cam in a little lat put I put forth what I think.

God is one God. Jesus is God's son. The bible is the word of God. I dont think all of christianity is going against God. But for share some are and alot are. I also think that there are major christian religions going in the wrong direction. But their are also alot of christian religons that are doing alot out there in the world. More than I am to which I am ashamed of.

I think that direction of christanity is mostly good and has bad traits. The bible says it evil the devil goes to church. Well lets not forget that so do the good to. Remember their is a battle on earth for souls and the defeat of God and his children so you will see the battle on earth and in the church. Satan will come in our own holy light and change our beliefs which he has already done with the belief of trinity and others. God bless and God with his spirit.

What specific questions do you have for me?

I'll respond tonight, ok

OT @ work!!

= = = = =

Got to go to dinner noobfun, please get back with me on the questions you have for me, ok?

OT

PS: Here's others opinions, throughout history, concerning Jesus...thoughts?

Blaise Pascal—Jesus Christ is the centre of
everything and the object of everything, and he
who does not know Him knows nothing of the
order of nature and nothing of himself.

Joseph Ernest Renan—Jesus is the cornerstone
of humanity. If He were taken away, it would
shake the world to its foundations.

Ralph Waldo Emerson—The unique impression
of Jesus upon mankind—whose name is not so
much written as ploughed into the history of the
world—is proof of the subtle virtue of this infusion.
Augustine—Christ is not valued at all unless He
be valued above all.

Napoleon Bonaparte—I know men; and I tell
you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between
Him and every other person in the world, there is
no possible term of comparison. Alexander,
Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires.
But on what did we rest the creations of our
genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His
empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men
would die for Him.

Pope John Paul II— Christ is absolutely original
and absolutely unique.17

Robert Louis Stevenson—When Christ came
into my life, I came about like a well-handled ship.

Alfred Lord Tennyson—The Lord from Heaven
born of a village girl, carpenter’s son, Wonderful,
Prince of Peace, the mighty God.

Lew Wallace—After six years given to the
impartial investigation of Christianity, as to its
truth or falsity, I have come to the deliberate
conclusion that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of
the Jews, the Savior of the world, and my personal
Savior.

H. G. Wells—The Galilean has been too great
for our small hearts.

Napoleon Bonaparte—There is not a God in
heaven, if a mere man was able to conceive and
execute successfully the gigantic design of
making Himself the object of supreme worship, by
usurping the name of God. Jesus alone dared to
do this.

Malcolm Muggeridge—The coming of Jesus
into the world is the most stupendous event in
human history…. [and] ... What is unique about
Jesus is that, on the testimony and in the experience
of innumerable people, of all sorts and
conditions, of all races and nationalities from the
simplest and most primitive to the most sophisticated
and cultivated, he remains alive…. That the
Resurrection happened… seems to be indubitably
true…. Either Jesus never was or he still is…. 18

Albert Einstein—I am enthralled by the luminous
figure of the Nazarene.

Sir Lionell Luckhoo—I have spent more than
forty-two years as a defense trial lawyer appearing
in many parts of the world.... I say unequivocally
the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is
so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by
proof which leaves absolutely no doubt.19

George Barlow—The example of Christ is
supreme in its authority.

Vance Havner— Jesus was the most disturbing
person in history.

J. M. Mason—He who thinks he hath no need
of Christ hath too high thoughts of himself. He
who thinks Christ cannot help him hath too low
thoughts of Christ.

G. Campbell Morgan—Everything that is really
worthwhile in the morality of today has come to
the world through Christ.

Sholam Asch—Jesus Christ is the outstanding
personality of all time.... no other teacher—
Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Muhammadan—is
still a teacher whose teaching is such a guidepost
for the world we live in.... He became the Light of
the World. Why shouldn’t I, a Jew, be proud of
that?

William E. Biederwolf—A man who can read
the New Testament and not see that Christ claims
to be more than a man, can look all over the sky
at high noon on a cloudless day and not see the
sun.

William Ellery Channing—I know of no sincere
enduring good but the moral excellency which
shines forth in Jesus Christ.

P. Carnegie Simpson—The face of Christ does
not indeed show us everything, but it shows the
one thing we need to know—the character of God.
God is the God who sent Jesus.

Joseph Ernest Renan—Whatever may be the
surprises of the future, Jesus will never be surpassed....
all ages will proclaim that among the
sons of men there is none born greater than
Jesus.

Phillips Brooks—That Christ should be and
should be Christ appears the one reasonable,
natural, certain thing in all the universe. In Him all
broken lines unite; in Him all scattered sounds
are gathered into harmony.

Jean Baptiste Lacordaire—Whatever motives
Jesus Christ might have had against calling
Himself God, He did call Himself God; such is the
fact.

William Quayle—This calm assumption of
Jesus that He is not a sinner will take hold of the
wrists of any thoughtful mind and twist them till it
must come to its knees.

Leonce De Grandmaison—Either Jesus was
and knew what He was, what He proclaimed
Himself to be, or else He was a pitiable visionary.

W. A. Visser’t Hooft—The Christian Church
stands or falls with this simple proposition: that
Jesus is nothing less than God’s self-communication
to men, and the only certain source of our
knowledge of God.

Fulton J. Sheen—If we are to find the secret of
His Timelessness—the simplicity of His Wisdom,
the transforming power of His Doctrine, we must
go out beyond time to the Timelessness, beyond
the complex to the Perfect, beyond Change to the
Changeless, out beyond the margins of the world
to the Perfect God.

Dorothy Day—Christ is God or He is the
world’s greatest liar and imposter.

Herbert E. Cory—The witnesses for the historical
authentication and for the proofs of the Divinity
of Jesus, from the earliest days, are far more
comprehensive than the testimonies for the
existence of many famous historical characters
we accept without question.

P. T. Forsyth—An undogmatic Christ is the
advertisement of a dying faith.

Charles Lamb—If Shakespeare should come
into this room, we would all rise; but if Jesus
Christ should come in, we would all kneel.