MCCain is not a Natural born U.S. Citizen.

It seems to me that McCain is almost certainly a natural-born US citizen under US Code Title 8 Section 1401 (C). He may also be eligible under (A) if we interpret it to include any territory under US jurisdiction.

Natural Born US Citizens According To US Code

In the end, I think we ultimately have to ask ourselves a question: is it logical to believe that the founders of this nation would choose to exclude the children born overseas to members of the US military on active duty from the opportunity to serve as president of the United States? That seems rather ridiculous, IMO.

One thing I can tell you is that I would not want to be on the side that argues that thousands of children born overseas to members of the US military on active duty somehow aren't eligible to become US president. That's not going to go over too well in the public eye.




[edit on 11-7-2008 by vor78]

Originally posted by kleverone
I've never been one to let the majority do my thinking for me, so excuse me if I disagree.

You're American, and it's you right to disagree with me. Thousands of American soldiers fought and died on battlefields all over the World to assure you of that right. See how it works?

ot sure why you brought Obama into this, unless you see things in Black and White( No pun intended) And if by served you mean fighting a useless war that had nothing to do with the Security of the United States, then I count that up to a mindless sheep entering a war that should not have taken place to begin with. And since when is criticizing someone a crime?

He was the only politician I could think of that shares your views, and has the audacity to criticize an American war hero. Useless in your opinion, but not to those who fought and died so you could criticize their sacrifices. So "No", criticism isn't a crime.

Care to explain to me how any war McCain served in was in any way defending America? What Country attacked us that merited our defense?

His country called him to service, and he answered the call like any good American would. You call them sheep, I prefer to call them patriots and heroes.

Please explain to me how ANYTHING McCain did allowed me to disagree with him that something my forefathers did not do several hundred years earlier. If anything he realized he was a pawn in a bigger game and is now simply trying to milk what he thinks is owed to him based on his suffering. We all have opinions and that is all they are.

McCain don't tout his own horn about his military service. He has nothing to prove to anyone about his loyalty to his country or his fellow American. "Yes", your forefathers fought and earned you that right, but as Thomas Jefferson said:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"..

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
His fellow inmate, Bud Day, however did not.

Bud Day is a hero. Bud Day made a sacrifice for a good cause.

John McCain was just there.

BIG difference

If you know about Bud Day, then you should know he sang the praises of John McCain as well.

reply to post by vor78


The phrase "Natural-born citizen" is not in your source. The Constitution is clear that to be president, one must be a natural-born citizen.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Actually, it's about McCain's Presidential eligibility.

Maybe someone should start a thread about whether or not he's a "hero". But I think it's a pretty subjective argument.

The thread got derailed when I made the comment the Democrats will look ridiculous questioning the citizenship of an American war hero. You guys are ridiculous..

reply to post by LLoyd45


I apologize for my anti-hero tirade, llyod. I do not consider McCain a hero in the sense that you do, but i do not say that as a "bad thing"

I am 100% against the idea of this war monger in the white house, and im fully vested with my interests with this article given to us by kleverone.

It'll be interesting to see how this gets covered, if at all.

I think we should look to kleverone and Benevolent Heretic for very good descriptors ... they've pointed out misuses of terminology used by proponents of McCain.......

is he legal or not?

So far, the pendulum swings in the "no, he's not" direction...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I would think that the term 'Nationals and citizens of United States at birth' would cover it.

Even the guy in the OPs article is referencing this subchapter of US code, though he is refering to 1403, while ignoring 1401.

The Entire Subchapter

reply to post by LLoyd45


I could not possibly disagree with anymore of what you said. All McCain has going for him is his Military service and his POW status.

All I can say is we disagree 1000%

Originally posted by kleverone
reply to post by LLoyd45

 

I could not possibly disagree with anymore of what you said. All McCain has going for him is his Military service and his POW status.

All I can say is we disagree 1000%

I have no bone to pick with you Kleverone, I usually like your posts. We just simply disagree as you have said. My last word on McCain as a hero.

reply to post by LLoyd45


No doubt, we simply disagree. Not the end of the world. We disagree on one thing. It certainly doesn't reflect the entire spectrum of our beliefs. That is what I love about ATS, we can disagree in a civil manner and at the end of the day leave it at that. God bless ATS and the people who make it up.

The Naturalization Act of 1790 and 1795 would seem to cover this situation. It seems that the Framers did take up this issue.

Naturalization Act of 1709

Statutes at Large, 1st Congress, 2nd Session

The Act also establishes the United States citizenship of children of citizens, born abroad, without the need for naturalization, "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens".

Naturalization Act of 1795

Statutes at Large, 3rd Congress, 2nd Session


Obama is American by Birth on soilJus soli

McCain is American by Birth by Blood
Jus sanguinis

Never trust Lawyers they make something from nothing..

reply to post by kleverone


It doesn't really matter... he'll never be president anyway.

I guess the fact that he was born in place known for it's high concentration of malaria... speaks for his wimpishness and verbal short comings.

Why republicans placed their future on such a weak canidate beats me.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Level X]

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


and now the pendulum swings in the other direction

Thanks for that info, Dark Storm Crow

Ah yes, gotta love the political season.

Topics already discussed unto death arise once again to walk the earth.

"Natural born" means "NOT naturalized". Arnold Shwarzenegger can't run for president under current law. HE was born in another country of non-citizen parents.

John McCain is qualified to run for president. He was born in another country to U.S. citizens. Case (and hopefully threads) closed.

reply to post by eaglewingz


For reference, and since im the one who made the arnold comment

please tell me you could sense the sarcasm?

the guy was saying "if congress says so, he's a citizen"

and so i made the comment, in "ironic fashion" (for lack of a better statement) to show him the utter ignorance of such a thing.


"gota love the political season" is right.

But instead of complaining about it - why not remove it from your subscription list?

This is what we choose to talk about. Every four years.

So what?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Actually, I didn't see your post about Arnold. He just seemed a good comparison for non-natural born versus natural born citizen.

Didn't mean to sound like comlaining. Just pointing out a duplicate thread in my own, possibly sarcastic, way

As sad is this may sound it seems the rules don't apply to political figures. Look at what these "rules" did to stop the world biggest idiot, G-Dub. The American people have lost all touch with paying attention and researching their candidates. It seems most people will vote for a politician on what they heard, or some catchy line.

For instance, the last election for president I bet you 180 million Americans voted for Bush because Kerry was going to "take away the guns." Politicians don't even care about debates any more for christ sakes. They will just play "make the other guy look bad" and hope that gives them votes. I mean did you see G-dub's pathetic attempt at debating? That speaks for it's self.

I'm going to be voting for myself. I think that I could do a better job then those stupid idiots anyways. McCain will just be another G-Dub and Obama will do something equally as stupid anyways. The hope for America lies in these two idiots hands? Yeah, were fu**ed. The rules don't apply to these people because they'll just change them anyways.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by USMC-oorah]

[edit on 12-7-2008 by USMC-oorah]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
You're American, and it's you right to disagree with me. Thousands of American soldiers fought and died on battlefields all over the World to assure you of that right. See how it works?

Yes dont question McCain because his war hero! right? This man cant be accused of anything! I guess only Obama should be accused for this very thing! never mind him being born in Hawaii, US soil!, never mind him being raised for the vast majority of his life by americans! he should be the only one to be accused of such things, not war hero McCain right! Sounds like Neocon tactics ya know? Dont question the iraq war and bush! its unpatriotic!

A similar arguement made Lloyd, we have you bragging about how obama should be personally attacked whether black or not, whether he has a choice in the matter or not! oh the hypocrisy from you people! Let me tell ya that McCain lost his "vibe" back in 2000, he gave his soul to the neocons.

i will accuse him, war hero or not.

He was the only politician I could think of that shares your views, and has the audacity to criticize an American war hero. Useless in your opinion, but not to those who fought and died so you could criticize their sacrifices. So "No", criticism isn't a crime.

Again with the "we cant criticise McCain because his a war hero", what a load of BS Lloyd, seriously.... especially from a so-called Ron Paul supporter thats real hypocritical my friend, I think your either confused as to where you stand and who your defending or your just switchen sides. Hey by the way thanks for referencing those fine men and women who defended this nation, now go tell some of those fine men and women in Iraq why more lives need to be lost in this war for oil eh.

His country called him to service, and he answered the call like any good American would. You call them sheep, I prefer to call them patriots and heroes.

Oh yes ofcourse John McCain answered the call when needed! We all know that, if I had a nickel for every time a rightie used this to push forward an arguement .... this doesnt keep him out of accusations, criticisms or opinions over his qualifications for POTUS. He chose to run for POTUS and he will be questioned on that bases! just like you fellas have been flooding this forum full of rightie wing propaganda on Obama, It goes both ways buddy! Oh yes and this "sheep" term, I dont think its appropriate to refer to anybody of a different ideology "sheep" yet we have your buddies here you so agree with post these:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
how about here?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Yes you tell em Lloyde! Dont call him sheep! its not nice word!

McCain don't tout his own horn about his military service. He has nothing to prove to anyone about his loyalty to his country or his fellow American. "Yes", your forefathers fought and earned you that right

Oh yes he has, he seems to do it whenever his questioned about something:
www.youtube.com...
Why doesnt he just explain why he refused to support this bill huh? its always "oh no you have no right to question me on this bill, I served this country so this gives me the right to go against the will of other veterans and my former principals" right? Bush policies have done nothing but turn this country away from what the forefathers founded it on and here we have you wanting McCain to be excluded from such criticism because "his a war hero" , all this to continue these same policies that threaten the foundation of this nation. That is sad....

I am real confused about you Lloyd not to mention afew others. You first say you dont support either candidate, their supposedly the same, all pawns right? and that you will "write in Ron Paul"! yet at the same time your quick to defend McCain, your most happy to spread McCain propaganda with other Bushies and in addition, despite Ron Pauls policies and beliefs conflicting with McCains just as much as Obamas, you seem not to follow RP principals. Explain to us here where you and some of the others really stand?

[edit on 12-7-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Bloody technicalities eh. Is this the first time that people have noticed he might not be eligible to be president?

Because if everyone's considered him a true American and had no problem with him up until now... then maybe people are just hunting for excuses for him not to be president now that he's in arms length of it, when they haven't actually cared for the last few years.

there is alot of talk about his being born ona military base outside the U.S. but all this is nonsense as that is deemed U.S. "land" which is why I present this hypothetical: what if it were exactly as explained except that mccain werent actually born on base but rather somewhere outside of base? would that make it any different?