Free Tibet? Hell, free America!

reply to post by Witness2008


Suddenly I'm very happy that Norway don't have that much oil...

But, if the war was started with an intent to keep the control over oil, there have to be some sort of plan to keep contol even "after" the war. MiniUS?

US can bully middle east just So far before things will start blowing up big time.. and I have a feeling that some of the bigger nations wouldn't appreciate US having too much control over oil for a too long time since US more or less allready have more than half of the world in a chokecollar.

Might be so that the US will have to back down 100%, let the UN in and support the UN as peacekeepers while rebuilding/redoing what the war tore to pieces (with, ofcourse as the nice, warm and loving souls we are, a lil extra changes when it comes to "fitting into the box")

Religion is a very scary tool when it comes to both votefishing and blowing people up.. (I dont know about our eh.. "leader".. he could be muslim for all that i know) Which is the main reason why religion and goverment politics Never should cross the same road.

This complaint about America engaging in torture has always amused me. Does anyone remember when we tried to get information out of prisoners by putting womens' panties on their heads to embarrass them into coughing up what they knew? Remember the resulting ballyhoo that ensued? For a large group in America it was deemed something akin to physical torture. How that is, I don't know.
Remember guys, these prisoners had been shooting us with real bullets and killing us and hacking our heads off and dismembering us with real glee! And we considered panties on the head as invasive? Wow. Where does the insanity end?

I just love the "I hate my own country" tuypes.

They display such a completel ignorance of the world as it really is. They obviously have never studied any other governments in any significant fdetail, merely seeing what they want to believe.

How woud you like to have to report to the local police every time you move? That's what you must do in most of western Europe.

How would you like to pay well over 60% of your total income in taxes. That's what happens in most of Europe, after figuring income tax, medical tax, religious taxes, VAT taxes, and so on and so forth.

Otr how about our liberal neighbor to the north, Canada. Are you aware that it is still official government policy in Canada to eliminate all Indian tribes and bands? That there is horrible discrimination against Indians all over that country? And that unlike the USA, Canada refuses to apply the articles of the Jay Treaty and the Treaty of Ghent to their Indians?

Yep, the US is just horrible. That is, until you really learn what other governments are like. Not the "tourist viewopoit", but how they function in the "nitty gritty".

reply to post by OldMedic


I do not think America is horrible..I think that we as a nation have been derailed by the Bush administration. Our potential is like none other on earth. I think being patriotic demands we be critical..how are we to progress if we can not dissent?

reply to post by OldMedic


May I ask which European countries you are refering to?

I, obvioulsy, do not live in western europe, but up north which at times are accounted for as western. But the taxes I pay are 33-35% of my income, we still - even tho it's going the wrong way - have one of the worlds best educationprograms and very good healthcare. Due to our taxes I pay about 150 swedish crowns/doctorvisit. (150/6.7 and you'll get the amount in dollars) we have a "roof" for how much medication can cost, above that theres a part of the gov. that pays.. I don't have to rapport one diddelysquat to the police if I move/relocate.

And as far as what you mention about the injuns in Canada I'll check that with Landis when he comes online for that was news to me

reply to post by I-330


The main problem is that many of these "prisoners" are innocent people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They get locked up with no legal recourse, are tortured and abused - and then in many cases, released to go on and pick up the pieces of their lives.

And then people wonder why there are insurgents...

Originally posted by OldMedic
I just love the "I hate my own country" tuypes.

Being critical does not equate to hating your own country. If I am critical of my friends and relatives does that mean I hate them or does it mean we exchange ideas and viewpoints? Don't mix apples with oranges because that is a dangerous game.

Originally posted by OldMedic
They display such a completel ignorance of the world as it really is. They obviously have never studied any other governments in any significant fdetail, merely seeing what they want to believe.

You don't need a Ph.D in political science and you certainly don't have to circle the globe to have an opinion.

Originally posted by OldMedic
How woud you like to have to report to the local police every time you move? That's what you must do in most of western Europe.

Sounds like BS to me.

Originally posted by OldMedic
How would you like to pay well over 60% of your total income in taxes. That's what happens in most of Europe, after figuring income tax, medical tax, religious taxes, VAT taxes, and so on and so forth.

Gross exaggerations.

Originally posted by OldMedic
Otr how about our liberal neighbor to the north, Canada. Are you aware that it is still official government policy in Canada to eliminate all Indian tribes and bands? That there is horrible discrimination against Indians all over that country? And that unlike the USA, Canada refuses to apply the articles of the Jay Treaty and the Treaty of Ghent to their Indians?

Perhaps what you say is correct. I will not take a position since I do not know.

Originally posted by OldMedic
Yep, the US is just horrible. That is, until you really learn what other governments are like. Not the "tourist viewopoit", but how they function in the "nitty gritty".

Yes the world has problems but not as many in europe and north america.

reply to post by emeessa


Sounds like a good idea but unfortunately I don't have much confidence in UN forces. They are a bit soft and always seem less-than-capable in handling major disputes otherwise they can and should play an important role in bringing a lasting peace.

In the meantime, the US, Britain, Spain, Portugal and whoever else agreed to the invasion should participate in stabilizing the middle east. Everyone signed on to get a piece of the pie but now that they are finding the going tough have decided to pull out and let the US swim alone. BS!

The world always blames the USA for everything but at the same time behind the scenes they always seem to agree. Sounds like double-talk to me. Either put up or shut up!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


It's a faul game inside the global politics..

And of course it is "everyones" responsability to end what they started - in one way or another.. The UK and "whoever" do have a part in the mess and should - there for - side by side with US "make amens" in some way. Us is not alone in either Iraq nor Afghanistan, it's a shared responsability.. I think the reason why "most of us" put the blame on the US is A) becourse it's a wealthy, strong and somewhat bully nation. B) it's painted out to be the country with "the whip" in these situations - the one giving the orders.. The top dog so to speak.. and there for it's, from "our" point of view, up to the US to find a sollution that will work..

At times it's the "Blame someone else" game going on from both sides of the ocean..

reply to post by emeessa


That's an interesting view - and one I have some empathy with.

Sweden is neutral isn't it?

But with fish instead of banks

A neutral point of view is a good thing

reply to post by budski


Eh, neutral and neutral.. That's depending a lot on how one choose to look upon it.. I know there are swedish troops "down there", not acting as "swedes" but as.. eh.. mercanary soldiers? (hired guns, whatever..) Some are down there with UNforces, we sell weapons to all sides of everything more or less. But officially as a country we haven't said anything about nothing... Pretty much the same way we handled the ww2, treat both sides equally, keep our heads down, shut up about what we Realy think and see if we somehow can do some sort of damadgecontrol meanwhile we try to make some sort of money from it..

..oh.. I forgot.. Don't speak about it out loud. We all know what "we" are doing, but we - as the diplomats we are - shut the f**k up about it..

reply to post by emeessa


I agree that the U.S comes off as the bullies thanks to Bush. I put this whole thing on the Bush administration as does a great deal of the U.S citizens..Fear not..we will push and push over here until the problem is resolved..after all we tax payers are being handed the bill.

I think I will put some blame on Blair, but bullies the Brits are not, not anymore anyway.

I think we need to start a serious dialouge with other middle-eastern countries and solicit their help, and then apologize to the Iraqi people.

reply to post by Witness2008


It's allways hard for both sides when there are warcocks ruling.. The american people are, in some ways, victims as well. (I can't belive I'm writing that) As far as I've understood it, the americans got fed a big bunch of BS and that it's not untill recently that things have started to surface?

I'm not sure wether Blair had any real choice to start with.. risking to end up on the wrong side of US can be a painfull experience, but I agree, he's not innocent in this either.

"You can only hold down a people That long - before they strick back twice as strong" - Looptroop. It's very true.. if a leader fools, mislead or misinform his people, sooner or later he'll have to face the results of his actions.. And I wouldn't want to be in Bush's shoes when the american people finally rise to kick his ass so to speak

reply to post by emeessa


I agree its tough to be neutral.

I am an american living in europe and believe me when I say it...it can be a living hell playing judge. Both sides are right and wrong but normally we only want to hear one side of the story which is dangerous to say the least.

reply to post by emeessa


Bush is getting slammed over here pretty good. The senate and congress investigates many aspects of this administration and Obama has stated that he will have his A.G if president investigate any possible war crimes and crimes against the constitution.

The Bush family already have their new home chosen in Paraguay, that particular country does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.. Since halliburton has located there offices in Dubai I'm sure Cheny will reside there. We Americans will recover, but my children and their children will pay for the mistakes of others.

As far as Blair goes I do not think there was any arm twisting, the U.K managed to come up with their own intelligence to back up the weapons of mass distruction distraction..he knew very well what was happening.

I'm a little worried about Brown. If Bush pushed us into Iran would Brown be his sidekick?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


May I ask where in Europe you live? I'd guess it's harder being an american in some countries over here than in others... I'm a curious lil thing with a too dang big nose for my own good.

Originally posted by emeessa
..oh.. I forgot.. Don't speak about it out loud. We all know what "we" are doing, but we - as the diplomats we are - shut the f**k up about it..

Isn't that why we should shout about it?

There's a reason why they don't want us to know, and it's not going to go away just because we bury our heads in the sand.

I say speak as many volumes about it as you can...

reply to post by Witness2008


I'm a mean person crossing my fingers in hope that Obama will be the next president over there..

Coming to Blair I think of friend here from UK had a good point when he said that UK don't seem to know which of the "groups" they belong too.. us "diplomats" that are finished with the fighting.. or the ones that still struggle.

As for Brown.. I have absolutly no idea.. But I sure hope no-one will push US into Iran... to try to take over control over Iran means messing with China and Russia... Iran is a tough country with more money and a lot better armed than both Afghanistan and Iraq together, and putting it's allies into the math.. That would end with a war that noone can hide from.. not even us up here. UN and EU can't look through it's fingers if there would be a war between Iran/Russia/China/the rest of the allies which i can't remember at the moment and US/UK/France and possibly Germany. "We" will suddenly have to take action and openly and strongly choose a side.. Worst case scenario I know, but it just might as well end with ww3.

reply to post by emeessa


I am a 35 year old american living in greece. I used to live in nyc but my parents retired, got their pension, we sold some property and I started a business on one of the islands. Long story made short......

Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by emeessa
..oh.. I forgot.. Don't speak about it out loud. We all know what "we" are doing, but we - as the diplomats we are - shut the f**k up about it..

Isn't that why we should shout about it?

There's a reason why they don't want us to know, and it's not going to go away just because we bury our heads in the sand.

I say speak as many volumes about it as you can...

They don't realy hide it from us, if we want to know we can find the information.. it's just not in the newspapers I learned a lot from one of my former bf's that was trying out to become an officer in the NBG (He made it, but HappyHappyJoyJoy! He had another job he couldn't turn down.. so he'll stay home safe and sound for atleast one mroe year) just as the interesting discussions going on here a bit now and then about our military force is getting smaller and smaller which in Some ways are very true.. but what we're not informed of openly is that we have a s**tload of specialforces and hysshyssforces running around.

..the only reason I know that is cuz I live very close to two of our biggest military eh.. camps (wrong word, but I can't remember the correct one) as I live in an area that's very important for to military tactics. And have been dumb enough to date my fair share of overintelligent soldiers.