Bush: Yeah, we signed off on Torture. So What?

reply to post by resistor


WOW,anyone who wants to live free of terror is evil?Well I guess Im evil...but I KNOW Ill be going to Heaven when I die.Sure some innocent people get arrested(sp?)and "tortured",thats unfortunate,but it happens..I guess maybe they shouldnt be associating with people or groups of ill repute.I dont see how you can say that by a country torturing TERRORIST it is a tyrannical country--------you live in Texas,that state puts more people to deathand more quickly than any other-what about the innocent people who died that way,what about the "tyranny"of killing another human(as some peole are against the death penalty,Im not,but you get the point I hope)I truly think that you and other people(to many unfortunatly)do not truly have a "grasp"on reality and world affairs.IMO

This is to whoever posted this:

If you have no evidence then your assertion is without foundation, and you may even be guilty of a terminological inexactitude.

Ok are you going to judge me?Can I judge you then?Do you even know what that word means,cause your using it inappropriatly(sp?)Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment my friend,you assertion also is without foundation-give me PROOF of your statement.I for one want to live without fear of terrorism-if that means torturing the suspects, SO BE IT.Im glad you dont control the world cause I got a feeling it would be a MUCH WORSE PLACE.Do you even live in the U.S?Or are you another French or UK American basher?

Well, I'm american, and I'm not only ashamed of our govt, and what they do in our name, I'm equally ashamed of the americans who defend these actions. This is not what we're about. Bush just admitted to a war crime...he'll never see the inside of a courtroom for it here, but, he better stay in the USA, because the rest of the world will have his ass in chains, given the opportunity, and rightfully so.

I really do not enjoy commenting in a negative way on the US Government when I live in the UK - so please forgive me:

My first reaction was to think - How could he be so dumb as to admit it.

My second thought was - If he is admitting to this, what on Earth is he not admitting to, that pales the approval of torture to be so insignificant as to casually comment 'So what?'

reply to post by Sheeper


How is waterboarding CRIMINALS OR SUSPECTED CRIMINALS the same as torturing someone based on their religious beliefs(which is wrong)?We torture suspected or known terrorsit so we can have those religious beliefs and not have to worry about getting killed by a suicide bomber infront of our place of worship if we are not worshiping "Allah".Maybe you want to be forced to worship Allah,I dont,but if it were up to you we prolly would be worshiping Allah from what you say.So would you rather us NOT torture KNOWN TERROIST?Yea lets just "ask them nicely and abide by the laws-but they can do whatever they want,like send a brainwashed 9 year old CHILD strapped with c4 on their chest to a market or church.Come on dude!

reply to post by dragonseeker


Good,let any other nation try an **** with us.We will level their country and make it a territory of the USA.Not like any other country would though-they know what would happen,so come on,please let anothe counrty mess with us,we will win that one in like 12 hours.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by resistor

 

WOW

WOW, guess that's about all we need to hear to know where you're coming from huh?

Just believe whatever the gov tells you, do whatever the gov tells you to do, and see where that gets you. Please note my sig. Does the phrase, 'depart from me.... I never knew you' ring a bell?

reply to post by Myrdyn


Very perceptive thoughts. The Bush crime family is a lot like a duck. On the surface all seems calm and serine, but underneath they're going like hell.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by Sheeper

 

How is waterboarding CRIMINALS OR SUSPECTED CRIMINALS the same as torturing someone based on their religious beliefs(which is wrong)?We torture suspected or known terrorsit so we can have those religious beliefs and not have to worry about getting killed by a suicide bomber infront of our place of worship if we are not worshiping "Allah".Maybe you want to be forced to worship Allah,I dont,but if it were up to you we prolly would be worshiping Allah from what you say.So would you rather us NOT torture KNOWN TERROIST?Yea lets just "ask them nicely and abide by the laws-but they can do whatever they want,like send a brainwashed 9 year old CHILD strapped with c4 on their chest to a market or church.Come on dude!

Please provide us proof that the people we are torturing are criminals, or have taken any action against us...and, no, "because bush and cheney say so" isn't evidence...anyone? Beuler? right, you're taking the word of psychopaths that the "bad guys" really are bad guys..doesn't sound like you're using critical thinking here..

reply to post by jkrog08


Actually, "Allah" is the same god as the christian god.

Allah is the most frequently used name of God in Islam when speaking Arabic. It refers to the God without any other beside him. It originally simply meant "the God" in Arabic, and was used in pre-Islamic times to refer to a divinity worshiped in Mecca. It is properly translated as "God" in English, and seen by Muslims as the same God as of Christianity and Judaism (referred to as "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"). The Arabic word Allah is a linguistic cognate of the Hebrew word Eloah and a translation of the English word "god", although there are some Christian sects which claim that there is a distinction between their deity and the deity or deities worshiped in either Judaism or Islam. Nevertheless, Allah is the same word in Arabic used by Arab Jews, Druze and Christians when speaking of God.

wiki - yes, I know.

some more from the koran:

In one Islamic tradition, the Islamic prophet Muhammad used to call God by all His names: :"اللهم اني ادعوك باسمائك الحسنى كلها"

"O God, I invoke You with all of Your beautiful names."

(Narrated by Ibn Majah, book of Du`a; and by Imam Malik in his Muwatta', Kitab al-Shi`r)

Muhammad is also reported to have said in a famous Hadith:

"Verily, there are ninety-nine names of God, one hundred minus one. He who enumerates [and believes in them and the one God behind] them would get into Paradise."

(Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, no. 1410)

again with the wiki

Here
are some truly lovely artistic representations of the arabic writing of his names.

So, as you can see, they worship the same god we do and they are very clear on this, so in effect you are actually worshipping allah of you are a christian.


[edit on 12/4/2008 by budski]

reply to post by jkrog08


Maybe you should learn how to read, I was the one asking those questions to another person, I don't think it's the same. I don't think it's worth it to torture because of how people end up viewing us, but if the world wern't full of a bunch of *snip* then I wouldn't care, torture the bastards, they deserve it. Maybe I miss understood you.



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[edit on 12-4-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

Just for the record, Bush never said "So what?", did he? I just wanted to get that fact out there, even though facts don't matter too much here. Sensationalism sells.

Can anybody give a universally agreed upon definition of torture?

reply to post by jkrog08


"Yeah, cause waterboarding among other rough interrigation techniques is the same as chopping off peoples heads for sometimes no other reason than they are a different religion/race."

That is what you are diggin at me for, you never heard of sarcasm before buddy?

reply to post by budski


Opinion rather than fact?

We could go around all day posting all sorts of links and debate the issue, or rather the opinion, but the fact remains that we have not been attacked since 9-11.

Maybe we should ask John McCain if torture works, I'm sure he'll say "hell yes!"

How many terror plots have already been foiled since the topic of waterboarding first surfaced?

Please tell me where we were attacked?

I understand where you are coming from because I know not everything affects everyone in the same way, but to generalize and say this does not work, period, is a bit absurd. I know waterboarding will not work on everyone but it's obvious it does work more often than not.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by Alxandro]

Originally posted by jsobeckyCan anybody give a universally agreed upon definition of torture?

My definition: The infliction of harm upon another individual for the purpose of getting information or for funsies.

Or the dictionary.com definition: "The act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."

The people who think that torture is ok because it protects there family are simply cowards. Cowards always think hurting others is ok because it makes up for there inner cowardice in being hurt themselves, its a classical self rationalization. For those that think America is like Germany, your right in that the two groups stole there way to power by making fake "disasters" one burning down the Reichstag, and one doing 9/11 and fixing the election. However the similarities end there. Killing even 100,000 "innocents" which may or may not be true, is not comparable to 15+ million. However I fully agree bush, cheney, and all his cronies should be tried for treason and killed. Torture isn't ok, and only cowards resort to that, be it woman hating muslim terrorists scum or baby killing pregnant women raping "soldiers".

reply to post by Alxandro


Again,
do you have evidence to support this.

People have provided good evidence to support their view that torture doesn't work.

Can you please provide something other than your opinion?

reply to post by budski


and again I ask you:

How many terror plots have already been foiled since the topic of waterboarding first surfaced?

Please tell me where we were attacked?

This is proof enough!

Anyone else get this mental image when Bush speaks?

Yosemite Sam!

Just picture this gun-slinging Warner Bro's character shooting into the air with both hands, at the end of each sentence Bush says.

"Yeah, we signed off on torture, so what?" *Gun sounds, and erratic jumping*

Classic!

Anyway, I don't see how this surprises anyone.

Back in the hole I go.........

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by budski

 

and again I ask you:

How many terror plots have already been foiled since the topic of waterboarding first surfaced?

Please tell me where we were attacked?

This is proof enough!

How is the fact there have been no terror attacks on the US "proof" that torture works?

If it's "proof" that torture does work, then I guess it's also "proof" that 9/11 was an inside job. I mean, if there hasn't been an attack since 9/11, torture must be stopping it. Or there haven't been any terror attacks since 9/11, because the government hasn't wanted to attack us yet.

It goes both ways you see.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by Double Eights]

reply to post by Myrdyn

Originally posted by Myrdyn
I really do not enjoy commenting in a negative way on the US Government when I live in the UK - so please forgive me:

As an American citizen, I appreciate that. Sometimes we do deserve criticism, true, but often we're attacked by folks who have no knowledge of our country.

Originally posted by Myrdyn

My first reaction was to think - How could he be so dumb as to admit it.

Well, what was he admitting to? He said he was aware that the NSCPC met on the issue, and he approved of the meeting. Take note of what else the AP said:

The AP reported yesterday that the administration officials involved in the meetings "took care to insulate President Bush" from the decisions made during them.

Originally posted by Myrdyn

My second thought was - If he is admitting to this, what on Earth is he not admitting to, that pales the approval of torture to be so insignificant as to casually comment 'So what?'

He didn't say "So what?". That was added for sensationalism by the yellow press..

reply to post by Alxandro


Of course it is.

It's proof that nothing is happening and everything is safe.

No innocents have been tortured.

Torture absolutely works.

There have been no terror plots for years because shrub made us safe by torturing people.

And your links and posts have been factually right on the button.