Lost control of the youth

has britain lost control of the youth in this country?

video

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.time.com...

The boys and girls who casually pick fights, have sex and keep the emergency services fully occupied are often fueled by cheap booze. British youngsters drink their Continental European counterparts under the table: in 2003, according to the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), 27% of British 15-year-olds had been drunk 20 times or more, compared to 12% of young Germans, 6% of Netherlands youth and only 3% of young French. British kids were also involved more frequently in fights (44% in the U.K. to 28% in Germany). They are more likely to try drugs or start smoking young. English girls are the most sexually active in Europe. More of them are having sex aged 15 or younger, and more than 15% fail to use contraception when they do — which means that Britain has high rates of both teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. Small wonder, then, that a 2007 UNICEF study of child wellbeing in 21 industrialized countries placed Britain firmly at the bottom of the table.

so out of the 4 major countries in the EU britain tops all 4 when it comes to youth
getting Drunk, having sex at 15 and getting pregnent and being the most out of control.

what does this say about this country and the way Kids are raised?

[edit on 29-3-2008 by bodrul]

I think the answer overall is no (every new generation is thought to be beyond civilisation).....

.......but I would suggest that it says we have been doing something very wrong (a look back at the football riots of the 70's & 80s and the 60's bank holiday mods and rockers riots and the 50's teddy boys riots illustrates the historic aspect) and the numbers continue to show we are still doing something wrong.

My own preference would be to take a lot more from the 'book' of our continental European neighbours & partners (where crime and anti-social behaviour numbers are lower) and a lot less from the on-going failure that is the 'ever more harsh & punitive' Anglo-Saxon (= UK & US) 'book' (where crime & anti-social behaviour numbers are high).

We ought to be aiming for a much smaller & lower costing Euro type situation instead of just continuing the reflex following the US example of building ever more prisons to lock up ever more numbers of our people.


[edit on 29-3-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

reply to post by sminkeypinkey


Which elements in particular are you thinking of, Sminkey?

I think we ought to begin with the most obvious, ste2652.

A much less unequal society with the spread in wealth between those at the top compared to those in the middle & at the bottom being much smaller & closer in European countries compared to the vast gulfs between top, middle and bottom in UK & US societies.

As I pointed out earlier we of course had crime before too but the big accelerations in the crime rates came with the creation of our current far more unequal society.

Of course that's a long-term objective but we used to be more like that and could be again, if we want & choose to be.


[edit on 29-3-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

I don't think class or wealth has much to do with it. Young people are having wild drunken drug fuelled orgies because they've got a few bob in their pockets and they can ... it's pretty simple really.

And I wish I was 25 years younger too.

I've been out for much of this Saturday night, just back in it's nearly 4am ... saw no trouble of any kind whatever ... well, apart from one lad who had to get poured into a taxi to take him home.

Must've met about a dozen youngsters on my tipsy way home, the hoody types, the ones vilified in the newspapers, hanging around on corners and whatever. I just said hello to every group and asked them if they'd had a good night and they all said yes, laughing and joking away they were.

I truelly don't see what the problem is with them. Just because they like to play "dressing up", hiding their faces, and being all teenage & misunderstood doesn't mean they're bad kids ... they're not. We'd be performing a more valuable public service by standing back and looking at ourselves just to see how twisted and embittered some of us have become ...

Perhaps some of us are just plain jealous of the youngsters ... I am ... to be a 14 y/o in 1980 ... mass unemployment, woeful economics, world war three beckoning over the horizon ... no computers or internet then, 3 tv channels in the UK, all of which like their radio colleagues ceased broadcasting at midnight if not earlier (HAHA) ... or 14 y/o in 2008 ... not a difficult choice really, is it ?

Don't be too hard on them. They're just kids.

I'm a 16 year old living in London and I know plently of kids around me who are getting into fights, having underage sex, getting boozed up, taking drugs and all the rest of it. They're not bad kids they just do it because that's what kids my age do for fun.
Niall197 is absolutely correct. Just give us a chance and maybe we'll suprise you. The more people of my generation are alienated the worse it is going to get.

reply to post by PeaceUk


wow taking drugs and drinking is fun?
thats the problem with the youth these days.

so getting boozed up taking drugs and acting like rotten thugs in the streets is a good thing?
every friday/sat i see 16/17 year olds going past drunk to the top acting like morons.

now i dont recall thinking taking drugs was cool

kids these days need more disapline and those that supply underage drinkers should face the harshess of fines and lose any licene to supply that suppliment. i was told of one place that just kept changing the store name each time it lost a licence just so it could still sell.


the only ones that alienate them selves are the ones that dont know how to get on in society,


one question Peaceuk who the hell ever told u drugs was cool?

Originally posted by PeaceUk
I'm a 16 year old living in London and I know plently of kids around me who are getting into fights, having underage sex, getting boozed up, taking drugs and all the rest of it. They're not bad kids they just do it because that's what kids my age do for fun.
Niall197 is absolutely correct. Just give us a chance and maybe we'll suprise you. The more people of my generation are alienated the worse it is going to get.

So in one part you say that getting into fights is fun and then you ask everyone to give you a chance? Are you kidding me?!?!?!

Let me tell you something i have no issue with kids taking drugs, you want to put poison in your body then go for it. I don't mind if you drink as long as you don't decide to have a fight with me. It sounds to me like you're just a common thug if you enjoy getting into a fight, i've spent a good portion of my life practising martial arts, i love it, i love the sparring full contact. The difference is i don't go and find some random person on the street and start hitting them, or just becuase someone annoys me smacking them one.

Fights should be avoided at all costs, drugs and alcohol, well i drank alcohol when i was younger, but i didn't get out of my skull in order to have a good time. As for drugs, well i never saw the point but if you want to do them then thats your choice.

As for underage sex, well to be honest i don't care, as long as you use protection and don't get someone pregnant then all power to you. Underage sex has been common for years i don't get why people are so shocked about it, we should educate kids more about safe sex as they're going to do it anyway.

Why do kids think they need to get drunk, take drugs and get into a fight to have a good time i wonder?

I have to ask, are you one of the ones that when getting into a fight needs 4 of your mates behind you as backup? I always found it extremely funny that these 14 year olds need 3 or 4 of them to take on one person. They always think they're "hard" and yet they're the most pathetic wimps out there.

[edit on 30-3-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Really, it's all caused by the breakdown of family and community values. I know that's not a very exciting or sensationalist answer, but I believe it to be true. Gone are the days when a father would follow in the footsteps of his father's business, instilling a sense of purpose in that young person. Now, with industry all but gone in the UK (and what honest work left going to the 'harder working' immigrants), what ambitions can an average teenager have? He/she knows that they're not smart enough to succeed in the office but a lifetime of retail or warehouse work (where pay will never provide them a home or a comfortable existence) is just plain daunting and uninspiring.

I suppose my point is that everything is connected - the economy, community, National identity, taxes, education, religion... the state of all these things right now in the UK culminates in disillusioned youth who don't know how to better their own lives, let alone the state of the country - so resort to frustrated nihilism. It's the classic sign of hopelessness.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Ah if only you guys really knew me. I apologise for giving you the guys wrong idea by what I posted, I didn't mean to come across like that.
I also train in martial arts, enjoy it, and have never, ever been in a street fight. The only time I would ever use force is if my health and wellbeing was being threatened and I had to use it as a path to get away.
Personally, I do not drink or take drugs either. If people want to do that then fine, but for my training and health's sake I stay away from things like that.
What I was trying to get across, is that your right, there are many kids out there doing this #, and have being doing so for years and years. You guys have probably only noticed it now thanks to the media reporting it.
Now getting drunk, having sex and taking drugs for fun is one thing. I know many decent people who do this sort of stuff. You can't blame these things on the 'decline of society'.
You adults always complain generalise that all teenagers must be violent and murderers because you see it in the papers. Don't you realise that it's also hard for average guys like me who just want to get on in life. To be fair, most of the time it is kids my age being shot and stabbed and who are most at risk. I'm always looking over my shoulder on the street because you can never be too careful out there.
I'm sorry about the misunderstanding of my last post but I hope this one offers you a look at the situation from a teenagers point of view.

Well, I was a 14 year old punk who showed no-one any respect at all, then drifted into skins and mods etc before becoming a casual, (and apart from being vehemently anti-racist I fully participated in all of the acivities associated with each of these sub-groups).

Here we are nearly 30 years down the line and whilst I could hardly call myself a paragon of virtue or a model citizen, I would also not describe me as a threat to society, indeed I contribute fully to society.
I would also describe myself as quite a respectful peson who both expects and demands respect in return,

The "youth of today" do seem particularly disrespectful and quite feral at times.
I suspect it is just the natural teenage angst which is being exaserpated by the effects of PC dogma and general molly coddling that is prevalent in today's society.

We reap what we sow!

[edit on 31/3/08 by Freeborn]

Well said freeborn.
Were all these people on here absolutely perfect in their youth or something?

Originally posted by PeaceUk
Well said freeborn.
Were all these people on here absolutely perfect in their youth or something?

Sorry the way you put he post made it sound you were geting into fights for fun. Easy to see how we'd think it.

Did you miss what i put earlier? I don't care if kids have sex with each other, everyone i knew was doing that when i was 15. I don't mind the drinking, i drank but it seems that kids today drink far me than we ever did. We drank a few cans, now they drink entire bottles of white lightning. Drugs, well i knew people taking them and they never did much harm, but again it seems that teenagers now are quite glutonous with them, there is no moderation or control. There is also no self respect apparent in many kids and self respect does stem from parenting in my view.

I believe that this current generation is worse yes, don't get me wrong i misbehaved as a kid, but kids killing people was kind of rare, kids beating people to a bloody pulp did happen but was the exception not the rule. I understand that even know it's not the majority that are doing this, but it is more common.

I'm 22 so not exactly old here but i can tel you this, when i was 14 i could see a very stark difference between my year and the year below and everyone i know says the same. IT's quite strange how it was likea massive divide, the kids in my year dranka bit, smoked a bit, had fun hanging around. The kids in the year below us took it all to extremes and seemed to enjoy actually being a menace so anyone who walked past them on the street. I'm not sure what changed in one generation, but it seems a lot.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I did what I did.
I'm not going to detail or attempt to justify anything.
I will not glorify or apologise for anything.
It's all part of making me who and what I am today.

My point is that there has always been an element of youth society who have been deemed wild and particulary feral.
The original Teddy Boys of the 50's were feared.
I am sure that their antics would be described as relatively tame when compared to the behaviour of some today.

My point was that teenage alienation is nothing new, it's just that due to a dramatic change in society's approach to discipline and social responsibility it is currently being manifested in a particularly violent and disrespectful manner.

There is a lack of discipline in schools and at home.
Our benefit system has bred a generation of people who expect hand outs for contributing absolutely nothing to society.
These people now have children who know no better.
What chance have the children got when they have watched their parent(s) do nothing but drink Lambrini and White Star all day, (not a slur on the many single parents who do a good job of raising children on their own, we all know the type it is aimed at!), for years?

The PC brigade are reaping what they sowed!



[edit on 31/3/08 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by Freeborn
I did what I did.
I'm not going to detail or attempt to justify anything.
I will not glorify or apologise for anything.
It's all part of making me who and what I am today.

I never commented on what you did i don't think, indeed it's a part of making you who you are and if you've become a useful part of society then i'll treat you with the respect you deserve like everyone else. That's a key issue though today, these kids want respect but don't act respectfully, they dn't treat others they don't even know with any measure of decency.

Originally posted by Freeborn

My point is that there has always been an element of youth society who have been deemed wild and particulary feral.
The original Teddy Boys of the 50's were feared.
I am sure that their antics would be described as relatively tame when compared to the behaviour of some today.

That's my point yes, the new modern youth are far worse. The odd thing though that i tried to point out is that i honestly saw the difference when at school, and i'm not alone most of the people i know all say the same thing. Roughly seven years ago there was a very sudden change, it was slowly changing at the time but then there was this abrupt shift to a more violent culture.

Originally posted by Freeborn
My point was that teenage alienation is nothing new, it's just that due to a dramatic change in society's approach to discipline and social responsibility it is currently being manifested in a particularly violent and disrespectful manner.

Absolutely agree, becuase of the current PC extremes it seems no one is responsible for their children, everyone shifts the blaim to someone else. Worst of all when one of these little scrotes goes and actually several hurts or even kills someone, the parents are there in the court room to defend them. The thugs that kicked that goth girl to death recently had their parents in the court room shouting at the judge for the sentence! They had killed an innocent woman and their parents stuck up for them, i know if i'd done something like that my parents would have forgotten i existed and rightfully so.

Originally posted by Freeborn
There is a lack of discipline in schools and at home.
Our benefit system has bred a generation of people who expect hand outs for contributing absolutely nothing to society.
These people now have children who know no better.
What chance have the children got when they have watched their parent(s) do nothing but drink Lambrini and White Star all day, (not a slur on the many single parents who do a good job of raising children on their own, we all know the type it is aimed at!), for years?

The PC brigade are reaping what they sowed!

Oh the benefit system i fully agree is playing a major part. Dont' get me wrong here, the UK benefit system is something to be held up high as a great idea, if used correctly it can help people who are truly in need, cannot work through serious illness etc.

It truly sickens me that parents who are healthy and could work sit at home not even trying. I've recently become quite ill, i can't work and i absolutely hate being on benefits, honestly i find it degrading but i have no choice. These people though don't seem to have this sense of shame, they enjoy being on benefit, not having to work and their children learn this exact behavior.

Let's not forget the middle classes though, the middle classes are churning out a good deal of troublesome idiots, rebelling against their parents for not giving them more money or respect. Then when they mouth off at their parents or don't come home on time at night, their parents let them get away with it as they're to scared of their kids or they think it's wrong to punish them as they're expressing themselves etc.

Then there are the rich people, well with spoilt brats like Paris Hilton being held up as great examples of how to be, it's no wonder kids are confused today. With the coming financial issues in the entire world i wonder if kids will change. Afterall their parents will no longer be able to buy them all the latest gadgets and fashions, credit is being tightened, lenders are being careful.

This kind of social disorder is something that I have no answer for in my political views.

I dont know what we can do to tackle it.

You see, Im all for freedom. But at the same time, if we were to chuck these kids into national service wouldnt that straighten them out?

Could we tout national service as an option to :

1. Tackle disrespect towards elders. I come from an Indian background, and I find it hard to believe how disrespectful these kids are towards even their own parents.

2. Obesity problems. National service would shape the youngsters of this country physically. I know it would really help me, I need to lose some weighto

3. Stop binge drinking. The armed forces have a culture of work hard play hard. When they drink, they really drink. But the next day they will be back to normal. The problem atm is that teenagers are drinking perpetually. They are always wasted at nighttimes. There is very little else to do. Introducing National service may help because there could be segments where hobbies are introduced to the youngsters such as rifle shooting, wall climbing or whatever else.

4.Sort out our armed forces shortages. With a massively well trained population (such as Switzerland), we wouldnt need to have a big standing army. If anyone invaded, they would face 10 million military trained "civilians".

5. Give youngsters career aspirations by letting them see what a good country this is to work in. National service will instil pride of country into the youngsters and make them more inclined to protect public property instead of vandalising it.

6.And finally, though this point may be controversial, I think it must be said that there is a lot of pent up agression and violence in youth culture. There always has been, because human society is fairly violent amongst some groups. Thus putting them in national service would show them how to control anger, and give them an outlet for the anger.

I myself am one of these kids. I know the problems from a first hand viewpoint, and I can see how National Service would help reign in this out of control youth culture.

National Service?

Obviously it's something I never had to do myself so I am reluctant to comment on it yet you certainly make a decent arguement for it.
I am sure it would be controversial but it is worth serious consideration.

I would also bring back corporal punishment in schools, (just highly regulated and policed, it's use can easily be abused), and re-assess the benefit and judicial systems.

Unfortunately solutions are handicapped by politicians playing party politics.

The reason I made the case for National Service is because I was in the RAF corps for 5 years.

Ive seen the snotty, arrogant little brats come in at the start and ive seen them leave as obediant, disciplined leaders!

May have something to do with the fact that the senior non comissioned officers were only a couple of years older than them, and we were allowed to use physical force on them, which teachers werent allowed to do of course.

Theres nothing like being forced to do pressups into a puddle to sort out any arrogance within them haha.

Yes teenagers (including me) have always been that way, surly, anti-social and a bit wild. And there's always been the tutting over the excesses and behaviour of our youth, it's part and parcel of society. Difference between then and now is, at one point crosiing a line meant either a physical or metaphorical kick up the arse was administered, again all part and parcel of society. Young people test the boundaries and the boundaries stay put. Nowadays those boundaries don't exist rather a raft of social and ideological dogmas have been put in place to empower children, excuse them from accountability and in short allow a generation of sociopaths to be created who then go on to blight their communities. Often they're the offspring of the previous generation who's actions were defended and excused rather than challenged, the rot goes on. Ironic that these things were put in place to protect youth when in fact young people are now more at risk than ever.

And as for a European model yep they have lower levels of anti social behaviour because their societies, from the govt, police and residents on down don't tolerate it. In fact the police forces in many of these places would be hung drawn and quartered if they went about policing in such a manner over here.

I'm very much against the idea of national service, in particular the aspect of people having to serve within the military.

Our armed forces are regarded as some of the best in the world, filling it with people who don't want to be there and to be honest are only ever going to be second rate soldiers isn't going to fix anything, we're going to end up with a bloated military with surplus soldiers and a massive bill for the privilege.

Possibly a "civil service of some kind" might help but there is still the huge factor of cost and whether those who don't want to be there will actually attend, there is no quick fix to the issue, what we need to do is sit down and look at our society and see where it went and is going wrong.