Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

reply to post by WraothAscendant


VERY true, Wroath, very true.

There are instances of blood spilled, and it is sad that MAN cannot learn to live, without resorting to silly conflicts over territory....well, I said 'silly', but in real terms, it isn't silly, it is usually devastating.

You see, at his base, MAN is still just a barely evolved ape. YES, we have the religions to try to impose some sort of rules and morality...and some say that WITHOUT these religions we would have no morality, and to that I say 'bollocks!!' (I hope that stays within the T&Cs, since it's a British term?).

Thing is, as MAN fights over territory, his weapons get better and better. You can see this evolve over our short Human history....I used the word 'evolve' on purpose. Because we tend to view our history in terms that we can understand, and that involves just a few generations...but when faced with a larger view of time, we blanch. Well, some of us blanch, others have a fuller view of the larger scheme of things.....

Best, WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


I agree that morality is not purely the realm of religion. But neither is its lack as so many like to say...

but when faced with a larger view of time, we blanch. Well, some of us blanch, others have a fuller view of the larger scheme of things.....

Yes but it kind of hard to truly know the larger scheme of things.
I have known many that I would call fools for other reasons claim they can view the bigger scheme of things.

Not one person alive can claim to know "ultimate" truth.
So instead of dealing in facts they deal in twisting and verbal acrobatics in a attempt to make their view SOUND right.
When the simple fact of the matter is.....
No one knows and all we have is guess.

Time for everyone to simply admit that we are human and largely clueless as to the universe. It's much larger than us after all.
Otherwords TOLERANCE is sorely needed.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


Truer words have never been spoken....

Wraoth, you continue to amaze me, and I think I'm changing my opinion....which is an honor, for both of us!

WW

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Conspiriology
we know Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

No matter who has it.

thank you for proving once and for all that any existent god would be pure, absolute evil (unless it wasn't absolutely powerful)

oh, no, you can't take it back, you've dug yourself in already.

I won't take it back and as much as all of your lil pals are giving you the big high five, only an atheist would miss the point about absolute power.

I thought you read the Bible Madd? What does it say about making money your God? Why did Solomon get the blessings he had not even asked for? What did Jesus say when ther Herrod said he had the power to set him free? What is it that corrupts?


Sin

Nice try madd but wow were you ever off on that.

I have given this link before as I have yet to see anyone come even close to a more complete argument for it but it does explain in such detail and the pure logic you so desire plato.stanford.edu...

When you can wrap that around your mind then you can go back to celebrating that you finally out witted Con.

Until then,

Johnson

- Con

reply to post by weedwhacker

Wraoth, you continue to amaze me, and I think I'm changing my opinion....which is an honor, for both of us!

I don't know how to respond except to say thank you for your kind and positive words.

reply to post by Conspiriology


Conspirology....

You seem to be on a 'tag-team' of your own, thank you very much.

Sorry you feel the way that you do.....but it is YOUR RIGHT.

See how simple that is? It is your right to think, or even, dare I say it? BELIEVE as you do.

Wow....but guess what? While you have every right to believe what you want, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to impose your beliefs on anyone else.

That is a point of this thread....No one, who is an atheist, is influencing history. Well, maybe a few books RECENTLY! But please, show us, with sound evidence, historical facts that show a huge influence of atheists.....as compared to the well-documented....for thousands of years...influence of theists, and the damage they have done.

AND, please....don't bring up again Communist China, or Communist Russia....because you know full well that, within those Governments, the people practice religion....problem is, it's not the religion you find acceptable....and that is the problem.

WHO has the 'correct' religion....???? Hmmm????

Hey wraoth,, you have a good time while you were away? Good to see you back old friend. I see you are up to your usual standard miles above par. Damn I bet Atheists hate you lol


I love it when people tell me can't we all get along when I have such good friends that are wiccan pagan etc.


I got to go settle ashley down, I just read her rant and we all start comparing notes about all these u2u's. While Theist get called "scumbags" and not one of us got offended. We just figured we were in the upper ten percential that are not. hehhe you know you are getting your point accross when the opposition gives you a pet name lol


Mines Cosmetology = )

I kinda like it

- Con

Originally posted by weedwhacker


Conspirology....

You seem to be on a 'tag-team' of your own, thank you very much.

Sorry you feel the way that you do.....but it is YOUR RIGHT.

See how simple that is? It is your right to think, or even, dare I say it? BELIEVE as you do.


Wow....but guess what? While you have every right to believe what you want, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to impose your beliefs on anyone else.

To be in a tag team? just what the hell does that mean?

I have enough problems loading web pages on my 32k connection much less being in some round robin voice chat about who is going to be the one to say "Tag" you're it.

That is a point of this thread....No one, who is an atheist, is influencing history. Well, maybe a few books RECENTLY! But please, show us, with sound evidence, historical facts that show a huge influence of atheists.....as compared to the well-documented....for thousands of years...influence of theists, and the damage they have done.

These have all been answered already.

AND, please....don't bring up again Communist China, or Communist Russia....because you know full well that, within those Governments, the people practice religion....problem is, it's not the religion you find acceptable....and that is the problem.

Is their any other parameters I am allowed to not answer in ? As far as you knowing what I think,, I never argue with mind readers.

WHO has the 'correct' religion....???? Hmmm????

I have often answered this regarding fine wine where I have always said "The best wine, is the wine YOU like"

So I guess Ill let your conscience be your guide.

Good luck with that.

- Con









[edit on 3-4-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by WraothAscendant


is "oh, no, you can't take it back, you've dug yourself in already." the type of statement i'd say and be serious about at the same time?

it's totally out of character for me.

I would say spin doctoring.
And calling someone's spiritual beliefs "Imaginary Friends" is not malicious?

...compare that to the things they say about atheists and it's like comparing a pinch to a broken jaw. i never said we weren't a bit malicious sometimes, but it's a bit different when they say that we're crazed, amoral sex perverts that get off on gang rape and child killing

And double standards?
But of course I expect you to say that on the simple fact your a patriot for your religion.

and i'd expect you to repeat the troll that i have one
i've already given you the argument that you refuse to accept
i am an agnostic atheist
i do not know, i do not believe
that is not a religion.

the inquisition: done in the name of a religion (not saying it follows that standard of the religion or that the religion was the explicit cause, but it was the explicit rallying cry and that cannot be denied)
(insert communist atrocity here): done in the name of the state

see, it would be a double standard if i said that...hmm...any atrocities of britain are a result of religion because the head of state is also the head of the church and then said disagreed with the argument that states that communist atrocities were caused by atheism.

Neither does believing in a god.

depends on which one...

but a religion is far more than just that statement. believing in yahweh says a whole lot (of contradictory things) about killing people
some parts say "no"
some say "yes"
some parts might even say "maybe" (depends on how you interpret there)

believing in allah has the same deal. some parts say yes, some say no, some say maybe.

believing in the norse gods....well, let's not even get into how violent that is.

Funny that both sides now feel ganged up on.

sadly, i can't even go into a proper description of why we are actually discriminated against on here without risking a ban myself

let's just say it involves someone initialed "MM" and that poster doing nothing that violated the T&C and then getting banned for being an outspoken atheist.

And yes I will "thrash" your patented illogic til I get removed.

says the person who somehow equates explicitly religiously motivated crimes with those committed explicitly in the name of the state.

As I did against Major as before her spiteful childish self got banned.

you
did
not
just
go
there

MM was twice the poster that you and i would be if we put the best of us together.

...oddly enough, calling her spiteful and childish is actually a T&C

MajorMalfunction was banned because of this post, nothing more.

i don't care if i get warned in private or banned for posting it. there was no reason for her to get banned and the mods are the ones air brushing history here if they say otherwise (yes, i did just make this completely on topic). if you say that the atheists on this site are anything but discriminated against, you're the one air brushing. we have to live in fear of stepping a bit out of line, you get to parade around using faulty logic while calling me illogical, christians get to preach willy nilly while we get private warns about "preaching", and you get to downright violate the T&C without so much as a warning.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


No, she didn't. She was banned for numerous violations of the T&C and would not desist when asked NUMEROUS times.

BTW, I gave you that one. Next personal post gets warned.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

...compare that to the things they say about atheists and it's like comparing a pinch to a broken jaw. i never said we weren't a bit malicious sometimes, but it's a bit different when they say that we're crazed, amoral sex perverts that get off on gang rape and child killing

So says the guy that pushes til they start pulling out that BS.
Stop trying to pretend your the victim.
You probly were to begin with I know how big of an idiot a lot of Christians can be I had to deal with the same crap. But your going on the offensive and then bitching (atheist bashing service? rrrriiiiggghhhhttttt) when you get your own medicine.

If you want to want to be criticized DON'T CRITICISE OTHERS!!!!

Or do you think you have some sort of magic right to attack others who have not attacked you because others of their belief system attacked you?

and i'd expect you to repeat the troll that i have one
i've already given you the argument that you refuse to accept
i am an agnostic atheist
i do not know, i do not believe
that is not a religion.

Yet you preach atheism and refuse to be swayed even when offered proof that your wrong on certain things.
Your a zealot of your religion, get over it.

And it's especially telling that you keep falling back on the troll name calling.
Especially considering I am just refuting you and you consider that trollery.
Sort of like when you jump in over your head with insulting everyone else and get beaten you whine about bias.

And for someone who claims to not know or believe you sure do ALOT of preaching.
I could claim to be a duck and quack like man but I'd still be human.

the inquisition: done in the name of a religion (not saying it follows that standard of the religion or that the religion was the explicit cause, but it was the explicit rallying cry and that cannot be denied)
(insert communist atrocity here): done in the name of the state

Yes blame and remove the excuse. Don't deal with the true problem.
Do you have ANY inkling how stupid that is?

depends on which one...

but a religion is far more than just that statement. believing in yahweh says a whole lot (of contradictory things) about killing people
some parts say "no"
some say "yes"
some parts might even say "maybe" (depends on how you interpret there)

believing in allah has the same deal. some parts say yes, some say no, some say maybe.

believing in the norse gods....well, let's not even get into how violent that is.

Considering the fact that in the case of the Norse gods.
Alot of Norse farmers that NEVER went to war and still worshipped their gods.
You know nothing of that belief system that much is obvious.
Amongst many other things.



As for the rest.....
Not even bothering with that considering the fact you start to contradict yourself.
And the part about MM is answered for me. BY A MOD.


Long story short.
You put your beliefs on a pedestal and knock all others. And then scream persecution when called on it.
Textbook intolerance.
Which is what needs to go.
You can't fix a problem that is at it's VERY BASIS intolerance with more intolerance.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
So says the guy that pushes til they start pulling out that BS.
Stop trying to pretend your the victim.

...um
i was just told i'd be warned if i brought up another personal post
the staff didn't give so much as an edit to a post that questioned my sexuality

i think i can i rest my case on that.

You probly were to begin with I know how big of an idiot a lot of Christians can be I had to deal with the same crap. But your going on the offensive and then bitching (atheist bashing service? rrrriiiiggghhhhttttt) when you get your own medicine.

get the quote right thrashing not bashing
...and my own medicine?
i've been told that i'm courteous and quite rational and fair minded on issues. something that you've yet to acknowledge of me there.

If you want to want to be criticized DON'T CRITICISE OTHERS!!!!

...i think you might have mistyped this one
however, i get what you probably meant
the problem isn't the criticism, it's what's being criticized. i criticize a belief, so someone starts a thread criticizing atheists. people and beliefs are two different things.

Or do you think you have some sort of magic right to attack others who have not attacked you because others of their belief system attacked you?

please, demonstrate where i have attacked someone because someone who shared a belief system with them attacked me.

Yet you preach atheism and refuse to be swayed even when offered proof that your wrong on certain things.

i don't preach atheism, i'm letting people know about it.
i don't throw random atheism stuff into threads where it doesn't belong, i even play along with theology on here when i find the topic interesting....hell, one of my more recent topics was simply a theological question as to why there aren't more books in the bible

...and where have i been offered proof that i'm wrong and denied it?

Your a zealot of your religion, get over it.

no, i'm not. again, you've yet to prove these claims about me. i have no religion and would gladly accept that i'm wrong when presented with the evidence.

And it's especially telling that you keep falling back on the troll name calling.

ahem

Your a zealot of your religion, get over it.

pot
kettle
black

and i'm not calling you a troll, i'm calling the post a troll

Especially considering I am just refuting you and you consider that trollery.

how full of yourself that sounds

you haven't refuted anything, you're just throwing out accusations that most on here would actually disagree with, even many theists

Sort of like when you jump in over your head with insulting everyone else and get beaten you whine about bias.

i've yet to be beaten on here

...am i going to have to challenge someone else to a debate? because it's kind of funny that you keep saying that i'm being "beaten" and "refuted" when you're not really doing it and i keep dismantling your arguments piece by piece and then you complain that i call it trolling when you bring up the same arguments in a thread where they aren't even the topic.

And for someone who claims to not know or believe you sure do ALOT of preaching.

um...where's my thread on the virtues of disbelief?
in fact, where are any threads that exalt atheism?

the inquisition: done in the name of a religion (not saying it follows that standard of the religion or that the religion was the explicit cause, but it was the explicit rallying cry and that cannot be denied)
(insert communist atrocity here): done in the name of the state

Yes blame and remove the excuse. Don't deal with the true problem.
Do you have ANY inkling how stupid that is?

how stupid it is?
i'm arguing that religion, like the state, can be used to justify horrible atrocities regardless of what the religion stands for.
i'm dealing with the true problem here and all you do is fall back to "do you have any inkling how stupid that is?"

you, good sir, lack a coherent argument (which is rare for you, even if i do tend to disagree with you on a lot of things you do tend to have a coherent argument quite a bit more than most) and do not know what to do

Considering the fact that in the case of the Norse gods.
Alot of Norse farmers that NEVER went to war and still worshipped their gods.

...i was making a joke.
seriously, you keep picking out my jokes and then attacking them as if they're part of my argument.

You know nothing of that belief system that much is obvious.

actually, i know quite a bit of norse mythology. i also know quite a bit about their culture and stuff

i was just making light of the fact that the myths themselves are very action packed and violent.

Amongst many other things.

ah, the subtle insult
good for you.

As for the rest.....
Not even bothering with that considering the fact you start to contradict yourself.

please, point to the part where i do
because i don't.

And the part about MM is answered for me. BY A MOD.

argument from authority

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by WraothAscendant

 

Well, Wraoth, you and Idle seem to agree with me, at least as it pertains to the greed aspect of many 'so-called' men of god....

Or did I mis-understand?

WW

I'm going to try to make this as nice as possible:
WW, Please do not take my quotes out of context. I said that if you want to rant against the "money changers" feel free to do so. But we here are not the money changers. I don't receive any money for what i do here and neither does anyone else. I was referring to the temple money changers whom Jesus called out for what they were doing.

As for you Mad, you seem to want to keep the hatred going. Why is that? Do you like to try to come out ahead? This thread was dying down. Why rehash old material?

There is no tag team here. There is a body of believers who care about other humans and speak their minds, just as you do. But you seem to want to spew venom rather than peace. If you want to make your case, stop trying to make everyone else feel less than human for NOT believing the same as you. If you don't like the title of the thread, leave it and start one of your own.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. You will not change my mind.

reply to post by idle_rocker


This is an important subject, idle....

Because it falls to rights, as in my right, and mad's right, to believe what we choose, as it is also YOUR right to believe what you do.

The fact that we happen to sit, in our rockers, on opposite ends of the spectrum is a fact that we sit, in our rockers, on opposite ends of t he spectrum.

Not worth arguing about, since minds get made up pretty early on, whether due to indoctrination at an early age, or culture, or environment...on a personal note, I used my rational thinking skills long ago, as a pre-teen, to realize that religion was evil, and detrimental to our development as a species, we Humans.

BUT, that is my opinion, and I believe I have as much a right to my opinion as you do you yours. AND mad has to his/hers!!!

I just think it's important to stand by our beliefs, even if we disagree, at least we are discussing, and not jellyfish.....blindly following what others tell us to think!

Best, WW

As I have said before, I also use my critical thinking skills and resent being called a dumb fairy in the sky worshiper. Because my critical thinking skills led me down a different road than you have chosen does not a stupid person make.

However, I'll acknowledge that you have just as much right to believe what you do as I have to believe what I do. What I don't think is right and is disrespectful is to try to call anyone who is not atheist stupid and non-scientific in their thinking. I am and have studied the universe.

I, nor any Christian here, I believe, mean any harm to anyone; atheist, pantheist, anarchist or whatever. I just find it ironic that those who call the kettle black, so to speak, are the ones most verbal in their insults.

Oh, and by the way, I was where you are at one time...but more agnostic than atheist.

And, I will leave this here. Frankly I'm tired of the drama.

[edit on 4/3/08 by idle_rocker]

reply to post by idle_rocker


idle, no way did I ever call you a dumb fairy!!!

I think your invective was directed at someone else, besides me....but I can take it, because even though I'm a godless atheist, I can still 'turn the other cheek'...because I don't need a religion to tell me how to have a sense of morality....

Peace, WW

I'll admit I haven't read all 72 pages of this thread, but I've read enough of the last couple to know that there appears to be very little discussion of the actual topic. That topic being:

Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

I contend that Atheists, specifically radical Atheists led by Richard Dawkins, are conspiring to air brush history to conceal the connection between Atheism and the worst atrocities of world history.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Can we return to it without all the extra commentary?



fixed my grammar.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Duzey]

reply to post by Duzey


Yup! You're right!!!

There is NO WAY that atheists could possibly influence history, since THEISTS have all of the MOJO!!!

Just my humble opinion....

from a confirmed atheist....oops, prolly shouldn't have said that!!!

[edit....bad grammar]

WW

[edit on 4/4/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'll ignore the sarcasm and take that to be your agreement on the matter.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


...um
i was just told i'd be warned if i brought up another personal post
the staff didn't give so much as an edit to a post that questioned my sexuality

i think i can i rest my case on that.

Well lets put it into context shall we,, You made an assertion as to where I was getting this "stuff" from then asked if it was my rectum. You then tell Ashley in more detail that you were merely wondering. Now madd,, it was the second time you had made a reference like that to me and in another if memory serves, you used the word "sphincter". The use of that word was used by another Atheist regarding whammy also.

Now it is commonly known that Gays have a certain fascination with such things and in the interest of finding out why you insist on saying such things, I came up with two suppositions. One with the disclaimer that it had nothing to do with prejudice but to suggest that you either have expressed indirectly, questions regarding homosexual proclivities in either you or me, and that I was not gay or perhaps you were just sugar coating the ad-hominem expression that I had my brains in my arse. I asked that you please refrain from such tactics but I see you are using my handling of YOUR initial actions as justification to instigate more trouble over something that should be long dead and over.

get the quote right thrashing not bashing
...and my own medicine?
i've been told that i'm courteous and quite rational and fair minded on issues. something that you've yet to acknowledge of me there.

Yes and I have been told I get the suppositions for all my arguments from my rectum. Now,, I ask you was that courteous does it seem quite rational and fair minded? Do I not have a very good reason to with hold any claims thereof regarding your alleged worthiness of the aforementioned affirmations.

I think not and HOW DARE wraoth have his own opinion for seeing the same tactics and arrogance displayed by anyone he deems fits the description. How Dare he make a typo or read a word wrong or mis spell without a firm reprisal. I must admit I would not feel I have the room to make such critical demands as to tell someone off for something I know many of us at one time or another are guilty of and why it is so easy to forgive without a second thought much less condemnation.

...i think you might have mistyped this one
however, i get what you probably meant
the problem isn't the criticism, it's what's being criticized. i criticize a belief, so someone starts a thread criticizing atheists. people and beliefs are two different things.

No, Madd,,wrong again, it IS the criticism.

When I say Drug use is stupid, it is the drug USER that feels affected and ashamed while the Drug does not acknowledge your criticism. Your intent can ONLY be to shame the drug user, unless of course you think you can hurt the drugs feelings. The same is true of The Christian and his belief in God. When you say "believing in God is Stupid, it is the believer that is affected and insulted not the belief for belief does not acknowledge your criticism and your intent can only be to insult the believer. This is now the fourth time I have given this very simple to understand explanation.

i'm not calling you a troll, i'm calling the post a troll

Ok this is now the FIFTH time I will explain this. The post does not acknowledge your criticism so it cannot be insulted unless you want to hurt the posts feelings. We know better then that however and as silky as the Teflon double speak might be to escape incrimination by others, it doesn't get past me and I am CERTAIN it won't get past wraoth. Your intent can ONLY be, to insult the author of the post. Using words like troll having no constructive application is indicative of your further intent, one to hurt having no other intended use.

What a tangled web we weave

i don't preach atheism, i'm letting people know about it.

Madd,, did I just hear you right? YOU have said and I quote "Atheists don't have any beliefs" So what in Gods name do you have to tell anyone about! When you can answer that then please tell me what the difference is between telling someone about Atheism as you most certainly have done with more zeal then many preaching about their religious belief especially when NOBODY asked what it is you don't believe Nor does anyone care. People tend to care about what you believe what you stand for NOT what you actively don't believe and can't stand for in others who don't share your void of belief.

where have i been offered proof that i'm wrong and denied it?

The below quote says it all Madd.

i've yet to be beaten on here

you haven't refuted anything, you're just throwing out accusations that most on here would actually disagree with, even many theists

I have always winced while reading your exchanges with Wraoth. Call it sympathy but I sure as hell wouldn't be so quick to say he couldn't refute your argument. In fact, I haven't seen anyone come close to escaping Wraoth's expertise when it comes to cross examination of the facts. My opinion is you would not stand a chance in a debate with Wraoth and although you would lose and lose handily in my opinion,, you would still not stand corrected. It is for that reason I would also advise that he declines and stays on the boards where he is most appreciated.

i scream persecution when people get away with spewing homophobic remarks, outright lies, and other bigotries while i get told i'll be warned for something light

If you are referring to me,, I already went over that with you three times now.


After Wraoth makes his point below,,

As for the rest.....
Not even bothering with that considering the fact you start to contradict yourself.

You say,,

please, point to the part where i do
because i don't.

Well here it is

i don't have any beliefs.
we've gone over this.
i lack beliefs.

Did you not say to me "I didn't say I believed their is no God, I said I don't believe in God"

This is typical Teflon double speak and begs the question,

do you believe God exists? Please answer Yes or No and only Yes or No the same way you would in a witness chair. Just yes or no without all the semantics please.


Thank you

- Con


[edit on 4-4-2008 by Conspiriology]