"Poor people don't pay taxes"

It's tax time again, and I thought this would be the perfect time to address this conspiracy that keeps people from knowing the truth. And the truth is this: Poor people do pay taxes. There is no "free ride" even if you are at the poverty line, and can't even afford the basic necessities of life.

I have run into many people here on ATS, and in the general public, who continue to argue that this myth is true. I have not been able to find anything that proves that poor people do not pay taxes. In fact, I have found the opposite to be true. There is most certainly a conspiracy of ignorance and disinformation which keeps people living in poverty, without any accurate understanding by the general public. Poor people are not substandard-citizens. They pay taxes, just like everyone else, even to the detriment of their own subsistence.

Please prove me wrong.

reply to post by jackinthebox

You are absolutely correct. In fact, the most regressive tax in the United States is the social security tax. The working poor pay a higher percentage of their income than the rich. Those over $97,500 in annual income(2007 figure) pay a smaller percentage of their income than someone making $10,000 a year.
It's no secret that if they eliminated the ceiling on Social Security tax, Social Security would be totally solvent. But since the rich congresspersons make the laws, you know that will NEVER happen.

They pay sales tax.

They pay tax on their utilities, their insurance, their vehicle registration, etc. etc.

Hey, did you know the wealthy don't pay tax on the purchase of a yacht?

www.news10.net...

I defy anyone to find more loopholes and welfare for the poor than the wealthy/elite/corps.

www.progress.org...

[edit on 3/1/08 by kattraxx]

maybe the statement just means that if you get paid under the table(it means youre probably poor?),and you dont, or might not file taxes.
still you pay sales tax when you buy things. so poor people unless poor due to taking a vow of poverty, do in fact pay taxes if they use their money on non black market items. even then, im sure its accounted for in inflation or something.

but if youre talking about a person who works a minimum wage job, they still get taxed every time they get paid weather they file taxes or not.

Don't forget the HUMMER:

With passage of the Jobs and Growth Act,
Congress dramatically expanded the
already generous SUV loophole by raising
the deduction ceiling for certain purchases—
including SUVs—from $25,000 to
$100,000.7 Under this new rule, the entire
cost of all but one large SUV—the Hummer
H1—can be deducted. This act also
increased the “bonus deduction” from 30%
to 50%8, which businesses can utilize in the
first year of purchase on the amount above
the initial deduction. This bonus deduction
was established in addition to the five-year
depreciation schedule9, which remained the
same.
Under the new plan, a business owner who purchases a $110,000 Hummer H1 in 2003
can now deduct a total of $106,000 in the first year (see table).

reference:
www.taxpayer.net...

Most specifically, I was talking about the Federal Income Tax. I have had the argument with several members on several threads regarding this issue, but never came to a resolution. I thought perhaps that I was missing some bit of information somewhere. Hoping that I was actually. But alas, I proved myself correct. Poor people pay taxes.

It really hit home several years ago, when I was helping one of my children and their family do their income tax. I looked at their W2's, and between them, they barely made enough to support themselves and their child, could hardly pay the $920 rent (they live in a city and that's the cheapest they could get), and yet 7.65% of their entire income went into a fund that they'll most probably never see. And yet, someone making one million dollars, pays less than 1% of their income to social security. Where is the justice there?

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
It really hit home several years ago...

... 7.65% of their entire income went into a fund that they'll most probably never see. And yet, someone making one million dollars, pays less than 1% of their income to social security. Where is the justice there?

Justice?

Or "Just Us"!


The old Golden Rule: Them that's gots the Gold, Makes the Rules!


Exactly, Prof, The "poor" may pay fewer actual dollars as personal income tax, But the amount they pay represents a greater percentage of their TOTAL income!.

And those who argue for a nationalized "Flat" tax system to replace the current "graduated tax-rate" system fail to comprhend this point:


Rich or poor, a gallon of milk costs the same.


It's just that the guy who pays $50,000 in taxes is a whole lot more likely to have a spare $5 for a gallon of milk than a guy who has to cough up $50 for his taxes.


And of course, we cannot over-look the impact of such things as sales tax, use tax, and fuel taxes; taxes which are assessed based soley on usage, without any consideration of the user's income.

Before taking the job I currently have, I was in the tax industry for many years. I have done taxes for the general public, the working poor, those who don't work at all, self owned businesses, ect. I also worked in the tax software industry, my nephew was one of the developers of the first software made available to make efiling possible, and I worked at his company for a while before he decided to take our experience and open several locations locally for efiling. I have to say from much experience that from I what I see there is definately some very unfair practices where the middle class to the ones who don't work at all are concerned. I have seen far too many who work 40 + hours a week, federal, state, medical and social security eats up their checks, then end of year taxes/refunds never really comes to any substaintal amount after they pay their taxes. Yet a woman who only works a couple of weeks a year can but has a child can file and get thousands in 'earned income credit', that is just wrong. The most common amount of yearly income we would see is between 20-30 thousand pre tax dollars a year, and without children in the home they might see a refund of about 3-4 hundred dollars, with children and earned income credit they would get around 3 thousand average. Earned income credit for those with no children is not even 300.00. I did one set of taxes this year ( I still do taxes each season) and the single with no children person only made 13,000.00 for the year, pre tax, and still owes them 73 more dollars, apparently the employer did not withhold 'enough' tax. Now had this person had a child, they would have gotten at least 2500.00 in refund totals. Something is wrong with that picture. Then there is the issue of the rich paying less tax. Our whole system is broken where the fairness in federal tax is concerned, as well as social security and medicaid.

[edit on 2-3-2008 by space cadet]

Yes, you are 100% correct.

The flat tax would be a disaster.
The other DISASTER that they talk about is eliminating the income tax, and replacing it with a national sales tax.

That would KILL retired people. National Sales Tax proponents claim that although you would be paying around 23% on everything that you buy, you would make MORE MONEY. But for those that are retired, there is no income, other than social security and savings (including 401K, 403B, etc.) (I am excluding the old defined benefit retirement income, as that is quickly disappearing from the scene). In fact, those seniors would be taxed twice. They were taxed on income that they made, and placed in standard savings accounts or CD's, and then would be taxed again when they tried to spend it. True, they wouldn't be taxed (I assume) when they withdraw their 401K funds, but there was a limit to what they could save that way, so anything put in non-deferred tax savings accounts, would have been hit with the"double whammy".

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Why should rich folks pay into SS when they wont use it or need it? .... poor people pay because poorer people must support people like them. Just because someone made a success out of them selves, does not mean they should have to support anyone else.

In my job I deal with peoples retirements..

The majority wait till about 55 and realize "Oh.. well.. I think I should open an IRA and start saving for retirement.. but uh.. I don't have any money, because I just bought a new house, a new car, sent 3 kids to college, bought a time share, and went to Disney world all on my credit cards"

And then I tell them how they better hope money magically starts growing on trees or win the lottery because they won't be having a .. all that great... retirement.

I know guys who made 60k a year, and will retire millionaires, and I know guys who make 60k a year worth more dead then alive because they had no responsibility.

Why should rich folks pay into SS when they wont use it or need it? .... poor people pay because poorer people must support people like them. Just because someone made a success out of them selves, does not mean they should have to support anyone else.

How do you know that they won't need it? There are a myriad of reasons that they just might. Identify theft, loss of fortune, serious illness, near fatal accident. Just because they have money now, is no guarantee that they will keep their "wealth". Wealth is fleeting, my friend.

In addition, your attitude is very cold. Sometimes, people, through no fault of their own, fall upon hard times. For your sake, I hope you never have to rely on anyone else.

There is only so much wealth and resources in the world. If someone is wealthy, either they inherited it, or had help in obtaining it(co-workers, bosses, mentors, customers). By help, I mean that other people directly or indirectly contributed to their wealth. Such people never seem to refuse the help they received to get their wealth, but once they have it, some of them forget others. The problem is that such people sacrifice their humanity in the process.

Unbridled capitalism is a crime against humanity, in my opionion.

Ok, I went to H&R Block and the guy said that I didn't make enough to file taxes. I still am tho just because I don't want to get in trouble and no offense, I want the EIC to pay off some bills of mine. One problem tho... to file with H&R Block they will take $300 of my return, only leaving me with $70! So I'm going to slog through one of the tax programs and try to do it myself(I have 2 forms where I am considered "self employed" when I'm an independent contractor... which just makes it a pain in the mikta... one W2 and a child.) If I come up with the same results as the first time I tried I'm going to try one of the free programs through the salvation army and LTC and if they won't do it then I'm going to H&R Block or not filing like the guy said I don't make enough. The first time I tried with the online tax cut program it said I owed the IRS $200.00, and the H&R Block guy added a lot of deductions. So I really don't know what to do this year... just confused on taxes this year...

it doesnt matter if they pay little or no taw, they get it back. MEDICAL and MEDICARE is screwing up with our taxes and giving it back to useless alcoholics who get gets their SSI check and buy more alcohol then we pay for their night in jail or when they spend the rest of their life in a nursing homes. it's not fair but hey, you wanna trade places with them and eat dog food?

actually, im so poor, that i dont pay income tax to the IRS

i make 0 $ a year, soooooo

28% of 0 $ = 0 $

wow doing my taxes this year was super ez

Hmmmm, I'm pretty poor and I don't pay federal income taxes.

There is NO law that requires you to pay the income tax. This is FACT.

Yes, I have been to court for this. Yes, I won. The law is on my side. The federal Judge dismissed all charges with prejudice, meaning I cannot be charged with evading income taxes again.

IRS Form 1040 violates the federal Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA) and is therefore a legally invalid form. Under the Public Protection clause of the PRA, no person can be penalized for failing to file a 1040 if the IRS fails to fully comply with the PRA.

The IRS Individual Form 1040 has not and cannot comply with the requirements of the PRA because no existing statute authorizes the IRS to impose or collect the federal income tax from individuals. That lack of bona fide authority makes it impossible for IRS to avoid violating the PRA. IRS Form 1040 has not had a valid OMB (Office of Management and Budget) control number for more than 20 years.

Section 3512 of the PRA, titled “Public Protection” reads as follows:

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person shall be subject to any penalty for failing to comply with a collection of information that is subject to this subchapter [44 USCS § § 3501 et seq.] if--

(1) the collection of information does not display a valid control number assigned by the Director in accordance with this subchapter [44 USCS § § 3501 et seq.]; or

(2) the agency fails to inform the person who is to respond to the collection of information that such person is not required to respond to the collection of information unless it displays a valid control number.

(b) The protection provided by this section may be raised in the form of a complete defense, bar, or otherwise at any time during the agency administrative process or judicial action applicable thereto.

The PRA statutes explicitly provide that a PRA challenge is a complete defense and can be raised in any administrative or judicial proceeding. Read the supreme court decision on the 16th Amendment and you will find that it enumerates no new rights to taxation.

It sickens me that there are people in our country who think that plunder loses all its immorality as soon as it becomes legal. Personally, I cannot imagine a more alarming situation. Our founding fathers revolted because of a 3% tax.

I will ALWAYS believe A man should BE upright, not be kept upright. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. When we as a society allow the IRS to rob an individual of the product of his effort we are-strictly speaking- no longer a society, but a mob held together by institutionalized gang violence.

The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, "See if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk". And that is exactly what the IRS does to Americans with excessive taxation.

There are many handouts in this country; but let's call them what they really are: a form of legalized theft. Essentially, a congressman tells his constituency, "Vote for me. I'll use my office to take another American's money and give it to you."

And no matter how detrimental the IRS is to our middle class, anyone who criticizes it can expect to hear: "But what would you replace it with?" When you put out a fire, what do you replace it with?

I refuse to play the game. I'm not benefiting in any fashion whatsoever from tax dollars spent. Its fake money, backed by nothing. We benefit from debt, not taxes.


[edit on 2-3-2008 by METACOMET]

reply to post by Rockpuck

Why should rich folks pay into SS when they wont use it or need it?

It is the responsiblity of ALL citizens to provide for the common welfare.

Let me give an example. There is the Scrooge riding around in his well-maintained Mercedes, and looking upon the other people in traffic with great disdain. Suddenly, BAM! He gets broadsided by a truck. The truck was being driven buy some poor schmuch working 65 hours a week, but still couldn't afford to get his brakes fixed on his jalopy. Now Scrooge ends up a Quadrapeligic, loses his fortune, and ends his life in the poor-folks home living on SSI checks and eating dog food. If only he had used his power and influence to lobby for reforms to help people in need.

This is actually a bit if a parody inspired by a terrible and true story that happend to a friend of mine this Winter.

reply to post by MacSen191


There are programs that will do your taxes for free as long as you don't make more than about 50-grand.

www.irs.gov...

reply to post by timbuk3

it doesnt matter if they pay little or no taw, they get it back.

Um, NO. "They" do not get it all back. That is the whole point of this thread, to dispel that rumor. Poor people are still liable for income tax at the end of the year, if they have not payed throughout the year.

Prove me wrong.

[edit on 3/2/0808 by jackinthebox]