The Sun Also Sets

The Sun Also Sets

ibdeditorial.com

Back in 1991, before Al Gore first shouted that the Earth was in the balance, the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study using data that went back centuries that showed that global temperatures closely tracked solar cycles.

To many, those data were convincing. Now, Canadian scientists are seeking additional funding for more and better "eyes" with which to observe our sun, which has a bigger impact on Earth's climate than all the tailpipes and smokestacks on our planet combined.

And they're worried about global cooling, not warming.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Even more scientists FINALLY realizing what a joke the idea of global warming really is. All I have to say is Good Luck boys, the lemmings are hard to convince. Even you prove your theory someone out there is going to throw up a bunch of data selective charts and some mumbo-jumbo spewed by one algore and tell you your wrong.

ibdeditorial.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Like all good conspiranoids, I believe that the terrors of global warming have been exaggerated, and the blame wrongfully place on humans.

However, I start to wonder, one of the posters before me said that the lemmings are hard to convince. I got to thinking about that and can now see it both ways.

Sure the powers that be have a different agenda than they let on, but if creating this lie is what it takes to create a societal shift toward a more ecologically conscious population, how bad is it?

Can the end justify the means? I guess it's an age old questions, and like all questions of this magnitude, I don't really got an answer right now.

Bliss,

BIll Thuther

www.conspiracygrimoire.com...

reply to post by traderonwallst


Hi, I'm a lemming. And the problem is, no one has managed to 'prove' I'm wrong. Global climate change (warming and cooling) will continue to be a matter of debate until the last of us jump off the cliff and land in the ever-rising ocean waters.

There is also the possibility that the global warming scam is a trick to make us conserve our energy resources for when it does start to get really cold...

If parts of the world were to fall into another ice age, then this would severely limit our abilities to get to locations where natural reserves lay.
It would also force millions of people to be crammed into areas previously not inhabited by us, like present day desert areas.

These areas would become green and lush over time, but we would struggle for a while.

So why is it we're being led into a policy where we are being made to pay for our carbon foot prints when the sun is the major factor in it all. Is it in readiness of a total global climate opposite so that technology will be more readily available to combat the change? Is there a bigger political plot we're not aware of, like the formation of a new party, that will be deployed in time for a global up-heavel?

Cheer at us Danes

Only once again confirmes what my gut tells me when I'm mesmorized by the sheep herders. Man has always sought out to be special and weee what a good job we did with the global warming scam.
If Earth is getting warmer it MUST be our fault... not at all the fact that we live on a rock that is influenced by the star we just happen to be rather close to or anything else in this universe. Nope... it's all because of Man.

This does not change the fact though that we are not helping this current more or less natural situation by cutting away every single piece of Earth's lounge tissue, or for some reason have a need to drive in cars that pollute a great deal because some guy once went "wow, that's a cool expensive car".

If you think you are riding your bike too fast right now and it's out of control, you wouldn't head for the nearest downward hill would you?

Lastly... I'm all for spending society's money on improving a healtier balance with nature if this means furthering modern technology that have low costs and are more environmental or just find a way to economically realease ourselves from the bond of those greedy fossil fuel companies.

Same as I posted elsewhere:

I think that essentially the same thing is posted here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But I'll respond to this for the fun of it:

For instance, researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Solar Research in Germany report the sun has been burning more brightly over the last 60 years, accounting for the 1 degree Celsius increase in Earth's temperature over the last 100 years.

linky

No they didn't. Sami Solanki et al (who are the guys this article is talking about) show that solar activity is not the prime cause of warming for the last three decades. The warming over the last 100 years isn't even 1'C, it's about .75ish.

Oh well, shoddy journalism in 'investors business daily', probably not known for their science reporting, more for their reporting of people making $$$.

And I'll add what I added to the original thread - the current solar predictions for cycles 24 and 25 suggest about 0.2'C potential cooling. So, if this comes to pass without any warming from other variables, we'd be back to 1990s temperatures, chilly willy!

But GHGs and other variables will keep doing their thang



[edit on 9-2-2008 by melatonin]

Update: and it appears that Dr Tapping agrees:

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the message. The stuff on the web came from a casual chat with someone who managed to misunderstand what I said and then put the result on the web, which is probably a big caution for me regarding the future.

It is true that the beginning of the next solar cycle is late, but not so late that we are getting worried, merely curious.

It is the opinion of scientists, including me, that global warming is a major issue, and that it might be too late to do anything about it already. If there is a cooling due to the solar activity cycle laying off for a bit, then the a period of solar cooling could be a much-needed respite giving us more time to attack the problem of greenhouse gases, with the caveat that if we do not, things will be far worse when things turn on again after a few decades. However, once again it is early days and we cannot at the moment conclude there is another minimum started.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Regards,

Ken

www.leanleft.com...

So, just another denialist's screed. If you wanna know more about 'american denialism of GW', and the involvement of think-tanks that defended SDI and the use of anti-science techniques from the tobacco wars, see this thread.

Originally posted by AJ Lavender
reply to post by traderonwallst

 

Hi, I'm a lemming. And the problem is, no one has managed to 'prove' I'm wrong. Global climate change (warming and cooling) will continue to be a matter of debate until the last of us jump off the cliff and land in the ever-rising ocean waters.

I believe the word your thinking about (for warming and or colling) is called WEATHER. Its been going on for millions of years. Get used to it...its not going no where.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by traderonwallst]

[edit on 9-2-2008 by traderonwallst]

reply to post by melatonin


Ya know what. When the temperatures STOP going down at the seasons change and weather patterns change and el nina and el nino come and go.....then I will believe in the farce knows as global warming. Until then. I am sticking with what I see around me. Seasons changes. temperatures go up and down. Droughts happen, as they always have and always will. Ice ages have come.....numerous of them to be exact. Tell me. What makes the ice ages go away? Was it global warming? I think not. And what caused the ice ages? Global cooling? I think not. Its the earth. Why can;t people realize that we live on a very dynamic planet that heats and cools itself. Why must we try to change the dynamic actions of the earth. What happens if we start to control climate change, only to find out that in doing so we prevented the earth from doing something that is necessary for the earth to exist? What if the earth, deep inside the earth, there is a source of energy that keeps everything alive.......and by preventing the earth from its own heating and cooling we turn that source off. What happens then?

We should not play with CYCLES of the earth. The earth heats and cools. Everything is cycles. It just sickens that some people will blindly listen to some scientists and completely ignore others. Granted I chose to ignore the global warming "geeks" only because to this day they still have not proved anything. They have collected millions and millions pieces of data and still can't prove anything. Theories are nice.....theories have convinced other to throw billions of $ at them. Not a bad gig if ya can get it. Scream loud and scare people.........the money will come.

NO GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Watchout for the next ice age. Its supposed to snow here today, maybe I will build a snow man.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
It just sickens

that some people will blindly listen to some scientists and completely ignore others.

Aye, I tend to ignore the people who clearly show they have no idea what they are talking about, or are just plain ideologues. But I'll overlook that in this case.

What you are doing, and have been doing since your first post on this issue, is one big fallacy. Just because there are natural factors does not negate human factors.

It's a bit like claiming that because people die naturally all the time of heart attacks, even though the person dead on the floor with a needle in their arm containing traces of high concentration potassium chloride solution with associated high blood levels, just has to have died a natural death.

Scream loud and scare people.........the money will come.

That's called projection.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by melatonin]

Still....No...........PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No proof no proof no proof


I am waiting for absolute proof. Enough with theory after theory after theory.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I believe the word your thinking about (for warming and or colling) is called WEATHER. Its been going on for millions of years. Get used to it...its not going no where.

Global climate change includes both dramatic heating and cooling of the planet, which is why I much prefer that phrase to the alternate, global warming.

And yes, the 'weather' has been around for millions of years. But if we want to do the same, we'd be wise not to just 'get used to it.' Even if you believe that the current 'weather' is a result of a natural cycle, you should want to predict where its headed and what that means for the fate of humanity.

If we 'geeks' are wrong, well, then the worst thing we did was make others aware of the need to protect our planet and its resources. However, if you are wrong and we all just decide to 'get used to it,' then everybody loses.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
It just sickens

that some people will blindly listen to some scientists and completely ignore others. Granted I chose to ignore the global warming "geeks" only because to this day they still have not proved anything.

I wish it were as simple as ignoring what you don't want to hear. But the number of climatologists denying global climate change continues to dwindle. I recommend listening to both sides of an argument before passing judgment. That way, you will at least earn the respect of those that 'sicken' you.

now im not a scientist or a weather researcher, im a guy with some college and AF experience which has 100% nothing to do with the comments im about to make, and further more, by reading this, you have agreed to be kind and keep a wise and intelligent tone of reply and/or comment in reguards to what i say.


I have noticed a increasing difference in weather change in my local area for the last 27 years an some odd months ive been in this area. while our summers stay the same and even have become more hotter then humid ( lsupposed to be the opposite in the wetlands of maryland ) Our falls and springs have grown shorter and shorter as each some odd years progress, But our Winters, well thats the funny thing, Its almost as if its fighting against the warm air, We have normaly had cold cold windy winters, with pretty decent snow fall nothing like upper new york an elsewhere north of us, But as the years go on we have less really cold days, an more fall days, an if it snows its for a day here an there, but if it sticks its normaly gone alot faster then it used to, it just seems its not snowing as much now, plenty of rain thoe, heavy too with alot more storms an big lightning,

Yes I may have just discribes normal weather patterns to most, but honestly I remember alot different, as I was the one who shoveled the snow, and enjoy storms.

Somethings changing, whether its a cycle of the weather to go in a trend like this, or the sun or Global warming, or even over population, the weather above my head is telling me its changing something other then its somewhat predictable patterns.



[edit on 9-2-2008 by Tranceopticalinclined]

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I am waiting for absolute proof. Enough with theory after theory after theory.

Well, absolute 'proof' is hard to come by in science. We tend to use more Baysian style assessments. The evidence is out there, you just need to look in the right places, it won't be found on right-wing blogs, industry-funded think-tank websites, or other such places.

But all you need to know is that CO2 is a GHG. GHGs warm the planet by radiative forcing. We are releasing billions of tonnes of CO2. Therefore increasing CO2 levels, increases the greenhouse effect, which will increase radiative forcing.

Ergo, this will cause warming. Anything else might be too complex for you at this point, we've only just got past the fact that natural and human effects can exist at the same time.

We've known this GHG stuff for a long time really. It's just been pretty much consolidated over the last few decades. Watch the video about the american denial of global warming. It's linked on one of my posts above. It's compulsory viewing for people like you, should give you something else to deny.

But, yeah, I know. Your too busy building strawmen.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Ergo, this will cause warming. Anything else might be too complex for you at this point, we've only just got past the fact that natural and human effects can exist at the same time.


[edit on 9-2-2008 by melatonin]

Ergo its 16 degrees here in Long Island and thats pretty damn cold if you ask me.

Come........do me a favor and prove cyclicality has NOTHING to do with global warming.

As far as I am concerned just the fact that you guys have changed your terminology from global warming to climate change only proves you still have no legs to stand on. Now you want to include every event that is not normal EVERYDAY weather as global climate change. Its getting a bit sickening. Tornadoes happen, but now when one occurs we have to find a way to blame it on global warming, I mean climate change, I mean Georg Bush and his evil NWO friends.

I still don;t get how such a good conspiracy sight does not get past the fact that THIS IS A CONSPIRACY. What better way to allow the government into your everyday life then to do what they say about global warming. CHange the way you live, eat, drive to work. How much must the take from you before you realize what they are doing?????

Lemmings....your all lemmings!

Originally posted by traderonwallst Come........do me a favor and prove cyclicality has NOTHING to do with global warming.

Like what? Which cycles? You might as well ask me to show it's not fairies...

As I said before, it's all very simple, we've known about it for a long time. CO2 is a GHG. It helps to warm the earth. Increase CO2 in the atmosphere, increase radiative forcing. Very simple physics, easily shown in the lab. Indeed, we can observe the same radiative effect from space right now:

Information that you will ignore I

Information that you will ignore II

As far as I am concerned just the fact that you guys have changed your terminology from global warming to climate change only proves you still have no legs to stand on.

This use of this label was actually supported by Luntz, an advisor to the republican party (Again, in the video if you can force yourself to watch it). I guess he thought it makes it all look a little less scary. Saying 'climate change' is just a different label that account for the fact that it's not just about warming, but about droughts, floods, changes in precipitation etc etc.

Now you want to include every event that is not normal EVERYDAY weather as global climate change.

Hmm, you mean a bit like saying it's 16 degrees in some place on one day therefore that means something to the science?

I still don;t get how such a good conspiracy sight does not get past the fact that THIS IS A CONSPIRACY.

It's just people acting on the scientific findings. I understand that your ideological sensibilties force you into the position you are, but that's got nothing to do with the science.

The next bit clearly shows this. You're really arguing from consequences. For example - because the science says x, people are saying we must do y and z, but I don't like y and z, therefore, x must be wrong.

What better way to allow the government into your everyday life then to do what they say about global warming. CHange the way you live, eat, drive to work. How much must the take from you before you realize what they are doing?????

In reference to the Al Gore camp of human cause of apparent Global Warming:

Originally posted by Bill Thuther

[...]
Sure the powers that be have a different agenda than they let on, but if creating this lie is what it takes to create a societal shift toward a more ecologically conscious population, how bad is it?

Can the end justify the means? I guess it's an age old questions ...

good point - If your believing that the Gore camp is thinking in 'Altruistic terms', and would have the world address the environment and climate change/global warming with the same abandon we engage in Wars.

Then the paradigm shift, spearheaded with the mega-spin of global-warming, would be a worthwhile undertaking.

But... the Gore camp is more focused in creating a new economic model
for the global community, where 'carbon credits' are exchanged and traded ~ much like the derivitives in the financial world are ~

and a world system that has a form of central planning elites, that will determine each individuals annual 'carbon footprint', and ration out
services and availability of resources... 'for the common good'


Gore & his like minded cadre of central planner elites'
are merely using the scare tactics of leveraged and designer data
about rising seas and ice free Poles, deadly skies, and the forced migration from sea side land...to gain control over the populations
, and to make the masses pay for their own scaled back lifestyles
and be content with a life of controlled rationing.


at least that's what i seen when i peeked behind the curtain.

Global warming?...

Your right... who possible evidence on planet earth, would give away the idea that the earths climate, is increasing in temperature.

Maybe its the massive ice caps, floating passed newzealand, a first in 'living memory'

www.msnbc.msn.com...
www.msnbc.msn.com...

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A maritime warning has been issued after about 100 icebergs were spotted south of New Zealand, some floating in a major ocean shipping lane, officials said.

A New Zealand air force P3 Orion maritime surveillance airplane on routine fisheries patrol in the southern ocean spotted the floating lumps of ice near Auckland Islands, about 160 miles south of South Island.

The largest iceberg was about 1.2 by 0.9 miles and more than 425 feet high, said Orion captain Andy Nielsen.

Thats pretty significant in my mind.

How about temperatures here in WA?
www.eldersweather.com.au...

Perth 3 Month History
February 2008
November December January [February]
date min- anomaly-max
°C °C °C °C mm
Fri 01/02/2008 19.4 +1.5 35.4 +4.2 0.0
Sat 02/02/2008 21.4 +3.5 37.3 +6.1 0.0
Sun 03/02/2008 23.9 +6.0 36.9 +5.7 0.0
Mon 04/02/2008 22.1 +4.2 36.1 +4.9 0.0
Tue 05/02/2008 24.8 +6.9 35.9 +4.7 0.0
Wed 06/02/2008 23.9 +6.0 35.2 +4.0 0.0
Thu 07/02/2008 16.9 -1.0 22.1 -9.1 17.2
Fri 08/02/2008 16.8 -1.1 30.3 -0.9 30.4
Sat 09/02/2008 19.1 +1.2 30.0 -1.2 0.0
Sun 10/02/2008 20.7 +2.8 35.3 +4.1 0.0
Mon 11/02/2008 22.4 +4.5 37 +6 0.0

February 2008 Average 21.0 33.8
February 1994-2006 Average 17.9 31.2
February 1994-2006 Highest 27.7 17th 2004 44.5 26th 1997
February 1994-2006 Lowest 10.3 3rd 2003 21.8 20th 2004

So, over a span of 10years, our average was 31.2.. this month, its 33.8

I tell you, looking at this weeks forecast

www.bom.gov.au...

Wednesday Windy morning. Mainly fine. Min 22 Max 37
Thursday Fine. Very hot. Min 23 Max 38
Friday Fine. Hot. Min 24 Max 36
Saturday Fine. Very hot. Min 22 Max 38
Sunday Fine. Very hot. Min 23 Max 39
Monday Fine. Min 23 Max 37

Id say that average is going to get hotter.


Sitting here where we FEEL the heat, i can positivley say, its getting DAMN HOT... and our icecaps below us, seem to be melting in an unsual way, being last year was the first time in living memory, that something the size of 1.2 by 0.9 miles came.. '' floating '' by

I think its rather ignorant, for man to assume he understands the complete effects our 'living emmissions' have on our solar system.
I picture it like a balloon.
Outside of our ozone, we have little 'earthly' emmissions floating about.. so we'er effectivley filling up our 'earthly-ozone-balloon' with these emmissions...

How about Katrina?
Why else is the US Government hiding the fact, that warmer waters in the Gulf of Mexico, are primary in WHY this storm became so big?

Gulf ocean temps:
Today Jan Feb avg 07
Key West FL (76.8) 69 70
Naples FL (76.1) 66 66

AMSR-E SST Data
AMSR-E 3-day averaged sea surface temperatures show large areas of very warm water (over 86 degrees F) in the Gulf of Mexico that provided energy for the rapid development and intensification of Hurricane Katrina. These observations were made possible by the ability of microwave instruments like AMSR-E to “see” through

outreach.eos.nasa.gov...
www.nodc.noaa.gov...

apnews.myway.com...

apnews.myway.com...

vortex.plymouth.edu...

newsminer.com...

yes thats right....1 16 degree day does not mean much to science, but measuring 10 years worth of data and extrapolating it over hundreds of thousands of years in the past (less the decades that don't help push your theories of course) does not mean much to science either.

Go back through time and tell me what the temperatures were on a daily measure 1 or 2 hundred years before each ice age. Then compare that to the daily temperatures over the next 1 or 2 hundred years after those ice ages receded then you can start telling me how weather and climate is changing. Oh wait, you can't give me daily temperature rate changes over those periods because we do not know it.

The has heated and cooled thousands of times since it was created. Its part of nature. Its what the earth does. OK, so some of the mini heating and cooling periods correspond with sun spot activity, so some of the other heating and cooling event corresponds with high levels of volcanic activity throughout history, and some of those heating and cooling periods have corresponded with excessive period of el nino and la nina. Yeah I guess your right...... there is no cyclicality going on here. Just the fact alone that you can predict weather or climate change is based on patterns. Patterns and cycles occur in nature. Hell, they even occur in business. credit cycles, housing cycles, bubbles and boom times....All can be predicted months or years in advance as long as you know how things have played out in the past.

Yes, I know the earth has heated in the past and therefor it will again ( or is now), but I also predict that we cool down. I am willing to be you right here, right now that temperatures do not rise forever. Will you take that bet??????

If you do not take that bet then I would say it is because you know (yet won't admit) that cycles exists. And just as things go up, things must come down.




[edit on 11-2-2008 by traderonwallst]