Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

reply to post by forestlady


I think the Nativity scene has a right to be displayed....Because in THIS country we CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS!!!!!! Ok, now that that's off my chest.....The mayor did ask for other non-christian symbols to be displayed, therefore they do have a right to display it. What I have a problem with is the person or persons that vandalized it. We really have NO right to break the law. That's what I think.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by tacticaljay


I completely agree... Look, believe it or not, despite what I have said, I am Christian in the sense that I believe in Jesus Christ, but as far as I am concerned, the institution of "Christianity" can go to "hell."

reply to post by tacticaljay


I agree also, what will be of Christmas without your share of nativity displays, wreaths, Christmas tree, lights and let no forget Ole Santa.

I hope that the city council will not go drastic on this one.

I got a great idea for a pay-per-view. On the courthouse stairs, a Battle Royal with members of various spiritual factions using a seasonal symbol as a weapon. Menorahs and creches and yule logs and crescent moon thingies and wreaths all clashing and hammering it out.

The winner is declared "Most Pious" and gets to pick next year's seasonal display.

And now that I have this in here, it's copyrited. So any of you Fox Network execs lurking around for ideas to fill up the time created by the writer's strike, prepare to pony up, big-time.

And Merry Christmas.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by forestlady

 

Going back to the original OP, ignoring the trolling, I was going to ask you it is possible to have an update on the OP, I will love to know if the City council decided to take the nativity or if the problem with the Vandals and the Yule wreath was resolved.

keep us update if can.

THanks for your interest, Marg. I think today they are going to decide what to do. I don't expect to hear anything until tomorrow. I will be sure to post any updates.

I'd like to say that I have a manger, creche, etc. that I put up every year under my Yule tree. It was given to me 40 years ago and is very old and special to me. I like to honor Jesus by placing my manger in view. It may or may not have a Pentacle close by to it. Does this mean that I shouldn't display my manger and creche? I think not. To me, all spiritual paths come from the Divine Source. Whether you call it Jesus, God, Allah, Jehovah, or whatever, to me it's all the same and is sacred. That's why I like interfaith displays. I am honoring Jesus, not doing it out of disrespect. I believe intention is very important in one's actions.

Originally posted by yeahright
On the courthouse stairs, a Battle Royal with members of various spiritual factions using a seasonal symbol as a weapon. Menorahs and creches and yule logs and crescent moon thingies and wreaths all clashing and hammering it out.

::

Buddhists might just bring the Vajra (on the left).



And I shudder to think of Hinduists:




[edit on 19-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by kinglizard



just to avoid derailment... I wanted to clarify this is my first chance to respond to you KL (death in the family last night)... I'm sorry if you think I was saying your 'not really' a Christian... That was NOT my intention.
My purpose was to point out the lack of Jesusian (did i just make that up?
) perspective of others religions or beliefs. (this is coming from my Own style of try to live like Jesus (i.e. Jesusian) lifestyle... I consider myself Agnostic, but I DO follow the actions and teachings of christ as much as possible)

While Christ would be proud of you for not admiring a symbol from a religion not of your own... I do believe that it is against the teachings of Christ to take pride in the fall of such a symbol, as it IS a representation of another persons faith.

In brief... To be Christian and dislike the symbol is FINE...
BUT to take pride in the fall of the symbol 'kudo's to the' "vandal" wise would really be un-Jesusian (did it again ).

I truly meant no offense and to show I am a flawed human being I will admit it was un-Jesusian (or maybe the increased lack of civility and decorum in some threads have finally gotten to me!)of me to assume that you would automatically try to ban or warn me... and did not expect this well explained of a response. I agree you are entitled to your opinion, and if I have not explained well enough my perspective for you to gain (imho) a stronger faith and link with Christ.

I do not expect you to change... I hope you find your own path to this perspective, and (as amazingly evangelical as I am being right now) we be thrilled if I was the one to point you in that direction.

You have definitely earned my respect, and I thank you for showing that the MODS are (basically ) ALWAY'S right!



*pouts at the mods for his being a bit of a goober* I'm Sowwy!



Coven

P.s. Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, have a cool Kwanza, (sorry I know no arabic) Ramadan!, Mother Earth Loves YULE!, * * Insert your faiths holiday here, Happy Holidays (that's like coveralls for the winter), and Seasons Greetings to ALL on ATS... (sorry if I'm a little late for some of the dates =P)

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Ok I have to bite but will be brief coz I've got to go to work. Let me present you with an analogy that mite clear things up a little.

It's your wedding day. Everything is going fine and you are celebrating one of the most important days in your life. The band music comes on and they are great, you go for your first official dance with your wife and all of a sudden a death metal band starts playin in the section next door.

Now they have "every right" to do so In this overly P.C. world. But lets face it. You cant hear your own band anymore and they are just screwing up one of the most important days of your life with disgusting hateful music.

This is an important day for Christians and other religions alike. But having a symbol of witchcraft celebrated rite next to the nativity scene is just pathetic. Celebrate it all you like but having the two together completely negates the whole point of a display. Unless in a museum IMO.

Sure Christainity may have some traditions that were influenced by important people but none the less, to Christians December 25th is now they day they celebrate Jesus' birth. Why have a symbol that is considered evil to them erected next to the display?

And btw just because its a 5 pointed star doesnt mean its a pentagram. The pentagram associated with witchcraft is with the point at the bottom. Also the star is represented because its told that is what led the three wise men to Jesus.

In summary: Celebrate whatever you want but of course people arnt going to be happy if you do something as stupid as that to thier display... Think about it, you wouldn't be happy if they F*&^% up your wedding.

I wish all the people who took such a hard stance on the subject of holiday displays would look past the display and who they are electing to put in the public offices where these displays are being fought about.

They would never cause an uproar of the sheeple , hit a nerve and have them ready to go after each other, would they?

No way, the elected never want conflict....

I can see being a little upset if the powers that be said that if you put up a cross, pentacle, menorah etc on display at YOUR house that it is ok for all the others could put up their display on YOUR property. Thems fightin' words for sure.....

Myself, I stay away from all of the public displays, I have no interest in them, don't care really, I care about what I put on display, this whole holiday season has been corrupted by corporations anyways so my family enjoys the season by spending time being thankful for what we have, each other.

It is not about gifts, it is about love and caring, the time goes by so FAST these days with work, and other obligations that the family is the most likely to suffer.

Let it go, love one another, love your family, enjoy the next couple of weeks....

Before you know it....

2008 will be here, and the grind begins once again.

I wish for each and everyone of you to have a wonderful holiday season,

I plan on having a wonderful time myself

Originally posted by kinglizard
If the pentacle or pentagram was displayed in a nativity scene

Two questions... Seriously.

1) can you site the source for the statement it was ON the nativity scene?

I thought I read both rather brief articles and didn't notice it...*

Personally I'd still like to know the answer to my original question here...

post by Creedo


What deems a symbol evil by one religion when the originating religion's intent was for good?

And for the record, earlier in a post swastikas were mentiond..... the swastika was around WAAAYY before Nazi Germany and has NOTHING to do with what the Nazi party has stigmatized it as. It is a form of the cross... nothing more.

What if they had chose the crucifix(traditional cross) instead?

I want to know... why is a 5 pointed star evil??

The Pentacle was not IN or ON the Nativity Scene.

Christians do not hold a monopoly on the Dec. holidays. Winter Solstice is an important thing for Pagans. Why should they be denied the right to put up something symbolizing our religion?
For crying out loud, there's NOTHING evil about it. Please, research and educate yourselves before judging the symbols of other religions.

The Mayor invited other religions to be represented. It's not like it was placed there without permission. The symbol of Pagan religion was desecrated.

To Christians, how would you feel if the Cross were desecrated?

Originally posted by Creedo
And for the record, earlier in a post swastikas were mentiond..... the swastika was around WAAAYY before Nazi Germany and has NOTHING to do with what the Nazi party has stigmatized it as

Well, we all know that very well, thank you. That was part of the point I was making.

I still want you to ponder what would happen if a festive banner with a swastika was placed next to, or above, a menorah display. I have not a cinch of Jewish heritage but I wouldn't feel happy at all.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I don't think it is such a good comparison. Jews were murdered by the Nazis who wore the swastika. Pagans as a group have never, in all of history, murdered anyone. We never launched Holocausts, Crusades or religion wars.
THe Pentacle is not an evil symbol - it's just that many CHristians have been erroneously led to believe that it is. This comes from the time of the Inquisition; the Catholic Church did such a good job of Public Relations against Pagans, that it still lasts.

Originally posted by forestlady
I don't think it is such a good comparison. Jews were murdered by the Nazis who wore the swastika.

But we are told that the Hindu swastika is a "good" swastica, much in the way the Wicca pentacle differs from the pentagram of the satan worshippers of all sorts?

Pagans as a group have never, in all of history, murdered anyone.

Vikings were a group that murdered many Christians in their raids of the Christian lands. Did you know that? And even before, there was a faction of pagan Visigoths who laid waste to Roman empire. How's that?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Creedo
And for the record, earlier in a post swastikas were mentiond..... the swastika was around WAAAYY before Nazi Germany and has NOTHING to do with what the Nazi party has stigmatized it as

Well, we all know that very well, thank you. That was part of the point I was making.

I still want you to ponder what would happen if a festive banner with a swastika was placed next to, or above, a menorah display. I have not a cinch of Jewish heritage but I wouldn't feel happy at all.

Oh I know that was the point you were making. And no, since the swastika has now been more than likely forever tarnished as a symbol of Nazi evil I personally would not like to see it anywhere.. period. Those bastards have destroyed IMO any good it ever represented.

Which is my next point... do we let the blind ignorance of one religion forever tarnish another religions symbol by bastardizing it as evil? When it truely is not meant for that pourpose?

What if somehow the war in Iraq, a war led by Presedent Bush whom places his action firmly in the belief, as a Christian, that he is doing a rightious and Christian-at-heart endevor, forever tarnished the reputation of Christianity and the very cross that Jesus died upon to the rest of the world?

What if Jesus and everything he stood for was viewd like a swastika because of this War?

All I am trying to say is symbols representing good things, through ignorance, are tarnished by other religions.... and that is just sad.

Why in the world do we continue to fight over symbols? Good grief they are symbols of our faiths. Can we not accept that there are different paths to heaven or paradise or whatever you wish to call it? I wouldn't be very happy about some one vandalizing a cross and I'm not happy about this act of stupidity.

You know, I firmly believe that in the end we're all going to end up in the same place and I also believe that God is looking at all of us right now and wondering when we are going to learn that different paths often lead to the same place.

It's time and past that we accept and indeed celebrate each other for the special and unique people we are. How boring would it be if we were all the same.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
You know, I firmly believe that in the end we're all going to end up in the same place and I also believe that God is looking at all of us right now and wondering when we are going to learn that different paths often lead to the same place.

Well, I don't think Wiccans believe in God; are you trying to force you view of the Universe on these fine people?

Look, all I'm saying is, if someone comes around my house at the holidays with their Great Ashen Faggot, there's liable to be trouble.