Any ATS Members Familiar with the Golden Dawn?

Originally posted by lazy1981
If I remember correctly that is also loosely the same idea that the pagans hold. With the symbol of the five pointed pentagram. They pointed the white point (White-Spirit, Red-Fire, Blue-Water, Yellow-Air, Green-Earth) skyward to represent the idea that we should be based in spirit and not base matter.

These are also the exact Five Colors of the Dhyani Buddhas(and also the Swastika Deities of Bonpo), and it is very likely that Pythagoras had received Initiations of Esoteric Buddhism. He was almost definitely an Initiate of the Hindu Samkhya School; however, Brahminism is actually based on (Tantric)Buddhism and/or Yungdrung Bon, not the other way around(Buddha Shakyamuni was one of many Buddhas in a long-line of succession). So Pythagoras must have been aware of the Tantric Mysteries.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Yes, but both Thule and the Nazis twisted the teachings of others in order to make them conform to their own doctrines. For example, the Nazis made a national hero out of Nietzsche, but censored his books to remove everything they didn't agree with. Neither Nietzsche nor Blavatsky would have approved of either the Thule Society or the Nazi Party.

True indeed.

I'm not sure if the Thule Society was a White Lodge to begin with or not; but it definitely became a Black Lodge after Adolph Hitler fell into the hands of the Drukpa clan.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Sexual Energy

I wish to oppose some of the nonsense recommended in this thread.

The dogmatic and rigid view of sexual energy having to be harboured, not-spilled, horded in the body and used for acts of creation other than sex itself is a gross exaggeration of what the energy was meant for.

Are you sure it is "dogmatic"?

How do you know?

The original occult idea is that "in order to manifest your will by magical means you need to charge that idea (thoughtform) with energy". This doesnt necessarily have to be sexual energy, it can also be ecstatic trance or even only natural enthusiasm. But since sexual energy is naturally very powerful, occultists began using it in combination with their willed intentions.

All energy has as it's base the Sexual Energy.

"Man is the measure of all things." - Goethe

And without Sex, Man would not exist.

According to Buddhism and Gnosticism, the Bliss of the Clear Light, or the Ain Soph Aur itself, is Pure Sexual Energy.

Since full orgasmic quality returns only a few days after of it having been "spilled", there is really no need to go years or even weeks without sex. If you need energy for sports-performance, it might be a good idea to do without for a few DAYS (like some top athletes actually practice), but thats quite enough, because energy NATURALLY RE-CHARGES and quickly too.

Are you sure about that?

And what if when the Sexual Energy is Transmuted, it is sent inward and upward through the Caduceus and is stored also within Man's Internal Bodies as well?

What if that same Energy can vitalize all of our glands and cells; but when the orgasm is reached it extracts that Vital energy, which was previously more-active within every atom of the physical body and beyond?

Some of the ideas presented here are based on doctrines of scarcity of energy. Simple natural principles have been taken and blown out of proportion, making it look like you have to become a monk in order to be worth anything.

Actually, the Path of the Monk is only a fraction of the Gnostic Path. There is also the Path of the Fakir, the Yogi, and the Fourth Way.

Just because a person doesn't not follow any of these paths, does not mean that this person is worthless. We all make our decisions, and we'll all end up being "re-absorbed" back into the blissful repose of the Absolute. The question is, how much pain do we want to be subject to in the mean-time because of our ignorance?

And it is true that there is an infinite, abundance of energy, so-to-speak.



However:

The Perfect Matrimony:


However, when we ejaculate the semen (either man or woman), the cosmic currents merge with the universal currents and there penetrates into the souls of the two beings a bloody light, the luciferic forces of evil, fatal magnetism.

Then, Cupid leaves crying; the gates of Eden are locked; love becomes disillusionment; disenchantment arrives and the black reality of this valley of tears is what remains.

Energy-Scarcity teaching is, however, human-made doctrine and never in alignment with higher forms of schooling.

Oh really?

Then why do the Brahmins and High Lamas themselves teach what you're referring to as "Energy-Scarcity"?

Please don't tell me that an occult-personality like "Aleister Crowley" knew more than they do.


This is the very reason why so few ever find the real Path. Nobody wants to sacrifice anything. As H.P. Blavatsky said, the average Westerner would turn and shudder, after even hearing about the preliminaries of Tantric Buddhism.

So really, what would the fleeting-pleasure of orgasm be, compared to the Eternal Bliss of the Solar Absolute?




[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Personally, I do not hold Samael Aun Weor's doctrines, and take most of what he says in "The Perfect Matrimony", and elsewhere, with a grain of salt.

Nevertheless, Huiracocha(Arnold Krumm-Heller), one of the original O.T.O. members and Grand Master of probably the only authentic branch of the Rosicrucians(under that name) during that time, himself taught the same doctrine.

Originally posted by Tamahu

Are you sure it is "dog-matic"?

Experience.

All energy has as it's base the Sexual Energy.

I´d phrase it just the other way around: "Sexual Energy has it´s base in All".

Are you sure about that?

And what if when the Sexual Energy is Transmuted, it is sent inward and upward through the Caduceus and is stored also within Man's Internal Bodies as well?

What if that same Energy can vitalize all of our glands and cells; but when the orgasm is reached it extracts that Vital energy, which was previously more-active within every atom of the physical body and beyond?

I am aware of hermetic and occult doctrines, but I take pleasure in contradicting some of them lest they become religion. And also so that a reader of this thread is provided with an alternate way of seeing things.

In this sense, not sexual energy is the base of everything and the source of rejuvination, but ENERGY itself, without the "sexual" label. Sexual energy is ONE ASPECT of life-energy.

In other words, you can experience states of bliss and energy that go way, way, way, way, way beyond what sexual energy can achieve.

.Actually, the Path of the Monk is only a fraction of the Gnostic Path. There is also the Path of the Fakir, the Yogi, and the Fourth Way.Just because one does not follow any of these paths, doesn't mean that they are worthless. We all make our decisions, and we'll all end up being "re-absorbed" back into the blissful repose of the Absolute. The question is, how much pain do we want to be subject to in the mean-time because of our ignorance?

Im not saying they are worthless. There´s a lot of value in them. Of course a lot of a path being useful does not mean all of a path being useful.

[Then why do the Brahmins and High Lamas themselves teach what you're referring to as "Energy-Scarcity"?

Because thats what they were taught.

This is the very reason why so few ever find the real Path. Nobody wants to sacrifice anything. As H.P. Blavatsky said, the average Westerner would turn and shudder, after even hearing about the preliminaries of Tantric Buddhism.

Ascetism and High Discipline was necessary a few generations ago. Today its only necessary for highly untrained and inexperienced souls. The bonds are loosening.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Oh really?

Then why do the Brahmins and High Lamas themselves teach what you're referring to as "Energy-Scarcity"?

Please don't tell me that an occult-personality like "Aleister Crowley" knew more than they do.

I get the feeling from reading this that you don't know what you're talking about. Like, you hear/read/think about something, and then pass it along to us later in these posts, but have nothing to show for it. Who "knew more" is irrelevant, if all you're going to do is appeal to some authority, no one needs to listen to you anyway. There are plenty of good, wholesome people, enlightened, that have had and continue to have sex. Energy is lost, but it's not like it's not gained back, as Skyfloating says. Have you actually felt this energy yet, or how do you know any of this?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Experience.

OK, but you may want to consider if that experience is objective or not.

I´d phrase it just the other way around: "Sexual Energy has it´s base in All".

I'll have to disagree.

The All is the result of the Fiat Lux, the Fohat, etc. the LIGHT and FIRE which is Sexual.

I am aware of hermetic and occult doctrines, but I take pleasure in contradicting some of them lest they become religion.

Lest they become Religion?

Religion = Latin: Religare. Sanskrit: Yoga.

The etymology of these terms is the same, and states the Reunificiation of our minds with our Original Divine Nature.

(Or in Dzogchen, the Inseparability of them, which we fail to recognize)

So then how can Religion be separated from the doctrines of Tehuti (Hermes), unless they are getting profaned?

And also so that a reader of this thread is provided with an alternate way of seeing things.

Fair enough.

In this sense, not sexual energy is the base of everything and the source of rejuvination, but ENERGY itself, without the "sexual" label. Sexual energy is ONE ASPECT of life-energy.

Then how is it that nothing would be able to exist without Sexual Energy?

Again: "Man is the measure of all things" - Goethe.

In other words, you can experience states of bliss and energy that go way, way, way, way, way beyond what sexual energy can achieve.

See above.

If we are having blissful experiences as fornicators, it usually means one of two things:

One: That we are a skilled meditator, and know how to enter Samadhi by extracting our Buddha Essence from the shackles of the ego.

(But, however, after the meditation-session is over, our Essence will return to the cage of the ego because of the fact that the ego cannot be destroyed without chastity).


Two: That we are still working with the sexual energy, but are inverting it by utilizing it in an animalistic manner.

The satanic-atoms that penetrate our internal bodies after the orgasm, are still sexual energy, but again: are inverted, or polarized negatively.

It is taught that if we rotate the chakras positively through Chaste Transmutation, then we can remain in heightened states of Consciousness, instead of egoic states of consciousness the latter of which are the product of the inverted sexual forces spinning the chakras in a negative direction.

Im not saying they are worthless. There´s a lot of value in them. Of course a lot of a path being useful does not mean all of a path being useful.

Excuse me(no sarcasm). What I meant, is that the people who do not follow such a path, are not worthless.

They simply choose to alternate between fleeting-pleasure and suffering; which is their choice.

[Then why do the Brahmins and High Lamas themselves teach what you're referring to as "Energy-Scarcity"?

Because thats what they were taught.

Yes, but it agrees with the doctrines of Kabbalah, Metu Neter, Hermeticism, Alchemy, etc.

There is only One Secret Doctrine that underlies all of these Esoteric systems.

Don't believe me; look for yourself if you wish. It's all implied in the best writings on these subjects. I'm actually surprised after reading older Occult writings, that more people didn't extract the actual sexual meanings found therein, before they were spoken about more blatantly since 1950.

Ascetism and High Discipline was necessary a few generations ago. Today its only necessary for highly untrained and inexperienced souls.

The Fourth Way is the Middle Way of the Buddha, without extremes.

But it still requires much more discipline than the average person is willing to commit to, because our Natural State is one of balance. Unfortunately the majority of us are very extreme people.

The bonds are loosening.

Oh are they?

Then why is the suffering of humanity getting worse and worse with each passing minute?




[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

reply to post by bsbray11



First of all, how can you ridicule my posts, if you didn't even recognize the fact that I never even implied the renouncing of the sexual act?

Originally posted by Tamahu
First of all, how can you ridicule my posts, if you didn't even recognize the fact that I never even implied the renouncing of the sexual act?

Well you're not the only one that's puzzled. What are you specifically talking about, then, when you talk about "spilling"?

The Transmutation of Sexual Energy (2)

Dr. Krumm-Heller used to give the formula in Latin. He would say, “Inmisium membrum virilin vaginae femina, sine ejaculatium seminus.”

In synthesis, we would define that craft as follows: “lingum-yoni connection without ever spilling the ens seminus.”

What should one understand by “lingam?” The male sexual organ, the Greek “phallus.” What do we understand by “yoni?” The sexual organ of women.

So, therefore, the key lies in the union of the lingam-yoni, but without ejaculating the Entity of the Semen.

Dr. Krumm-Heller was one of the original members of the O.T.O., the latter of which is said to have stated in a periodical:

"Our order possesses the key which opens up all Masonic and Hermetic secrets, namely, the teachings of sexual magic, and this teaching explains, without exception, all the secrets of Freemasonry and all systems of religion."

I'll have to disagree.

The All is the result of the Fiat Lux, the Fohat, etc. the LIGHT and FIRE which is Sexual.

And I say its not.

[So then how can Religion be separated from the doctrines of Tehuti (Hermes), unless they are being profaned?

Sorry, I should have used the words "strict dogma" and not religion. You sure do take pleasure in knowing your definitions and words. If I were your Zen-Master I would burn all of your books at once.

Then how is it that nothing would be able to exist without Sexual Energy?

Lets not argue if we call it sexual energy or electric & magnetic energy. What I am actually saying is that sex between humans is merely a mini-version of what goes on at higher planes. I think you´d agree with that.

One: That we are A skilled meditator, and know how to enter Samadhi by extracting our Buddha Essence from the shackles of the ego.

The Ego is not a shackle, its a tool for perception and identification in 3-D reality. Just because esoteric doctrine claims something to be so doesnt mean that thats the most useful explanation or even has to remain the best explanation.

(but, however, after the meditation-session is over, our Essence will return to the cage of the ego because of the fact that the ego cannot be destroyed without chastity).

It is not the purpose of the ego to be destroyed. The ego is not a cage. It is a tool to maintain proper focus on this world.

It is taught that if we

Yeah, its whats taught by some. The reason I am even responding to all of this is because you are presenting things as if they are THE secret doctrine which everyone has a consensus on. I am happy to show you that occult science is not even close to a consensus. Fortunately too.

[Yes, but it agrees with the doctrines of Kabbalah, Metu Neter, Hermeticism, Alchemy, etc.

Yes, but it doesnt agree with what I say.

Serioulsy though...your interpretation of the significance of sex-magick is a bit stricter than taught in some schools.

[Then why is the suffering of humanity getting worse and worse with each passing minute?

Its not. There´s still some trouble here and there, but we have emerged out of the dark ages and are slowly and gently progressing towards golden dawns.










[edit on 19-12-2007 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And I say its not.

Um, OK.

Sorry, I should have used the words "strict dogma" and not religion. You sure do take pleasure in knowing your definitions and words. If I were your Zen-Master I would burn all of your books at once.

I understand your sentiment; but I was not nit-picking here.

Hermetic Science is Religion, and also an Exact-Science at the same time.

So is Zen, with it's Koans, believe it or not. However, Zen is a form of Buddhism which has become very watered-down and "hippie-ized" in contemporary times.

Tibetan Buddhism has for the most part been able to maintain it's original purity(at least more-so than most Zen lineages).

Lets not argue if we call it sexual energy or electric & magnetic energy. What I am actually saying is that sex between humans is merely a mini-version of what goes on at higher planes. I think you´d agree with that.

Yes, the mystery of the microcosm and macrocosm.

All doctrines state that since the fall of Isha and Ish, the sexual energy of the macrocosm that we, as a microcosm have in Yesod, is that which can re-connect, so to speak, the microcosmic man with the macrocosmic(or Ayocosmic rather) Adam Kadmon of the Ain Soph Aur.

The Ego is not a shackle, its a tool for perception and identification in 3-D reality. Just because esoteric doctrine claims something to be so doesnt mean that thats the most useful explanation or even has to remain the best explanation.

If you mean the "Ego" in the sense that Theosophical writers meant it, then I'll agree. Theosophical writers utilized the word "Ego" to mean the Essence or Buddha-Nature. But this is a poor choice of terminology on their part to refer to the fraction of Divinity, that we have incarnated, as "the Ego".

It is not the purpose of the ego to be destroyed. The ego is not a cage. It is a tool to maintain proper focus on this world.

If the ego were not a cage, then we would be Omniscient, while at the same time being able to perfectly fulfill our earthly duties, right here, right now.

Yeah, its whats taught by some. The reason I am even responding to all of this is because you are presenting things as if they are THE secret doctrine which everyone has a consensus on. I am happy to show you that occult science is not even close to a consensus. Fortunately too.

"All Enlightened Beings agree."


I'm not claiming to be Enlightened by any means; but how could Omniscient Beings possibly disagree with each other?

Occultism would be a farce, if it were not able to lead us to our Divine Birth-right, and if it were not passed down to us from the Inner-Divinity of the Prophets.

Of course not all authentic writers on Occultism were Masters or Prophets....

But the difference between Esoteric Religion and exoteric dogma, is that the latter often demands our blind faith, while the former proposes to give to us the Science of our own Immortality, and Self-Knowledge.

Albert Pike:


The Secret of the Occult Sciences is that of Nature itself, the Secret of the generation of the Angels and Worlds, that of the Omnipotence of God.

"Ye shall be like the Elohim, knowing good and evil, "had the Serpent of Genesis said, and the Tree of Knowledge became the Tree of Death.

For six thousand(6+0+0+0 = 6) years the Martyrs of Knowledge(Daath/Gnosis) toil(for the sake of all sentient beings) and (their egos)die at the foot of this tree, that it may again become the Tree of Life.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

reply to post by Tamahu


If the enlightened wouldnt disagree, then at least those who interpret their words would disagree.

I know my stuff. Ive learned it in the Golden Order of Damascus

Yes, but it doesnt agree with what I say.

Serioulsy though...your interpretation of the significance of sex-magick is a bit stricter than taught in some schools.

It's The Path of the Razor's Edge, what else can I say?

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." - Matthew 7:13

The Dhammapada says, “Among men, few are the ones who reach the other shore. The others wander on this shore, from one side to the next.”

Jesus the Christ says, “Of a thousand who seek me, one finds me, of a thousand who find me, one follows me, of a thousand who follow me, one is mine.”

The Bhagavad Gita says, “Among thousands of men, perhaps one strives to reach perfection; among the strivers, possibly one achieves perfection and among the perfect, perhaps one knows me perfectly.”

Its not. There´s still some trouble here and there, but we have emerged out of the dark ages and are slowly and gently progressing towards golden dawns.

There is much to be appreciated in an optimistic attitude; but WOW , I do not see how anyone could say what you've just written, with a straight face.



The Golden Age will come all right...


...but after much destruction:

From "The Doomed Aryan Race":


"Presently, instead of evolving, the Aryan Root Race [this entire humanity, in every country and place] has devolved, and its corruption is worse than that of the Atlantean Root Race. The Aryan Root Race’s malignity is so great that it has reached unto heaven. Therefore, this Aryan Root Race will be destroyed, so that Ra-Mu’s prophesy (which he uttered before the submergence of Atlantis) will be fulfilled...:"

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I know my stuff. Ive learned it in the Golden Order of Damascus

The Golden Order of Damascus?


Then I've no choice but to concede.

to be fair it does not profess abstinence but merely giving up orgasm

It all seems a little surreal

Ii can imagine prolonging as long as possible or even can understand the energy going back inside

but that practice doesnt seem practical for every sexual encounter

Originally posted by romanowski
but that practice doesnt seem practical for every sexual encounter

It isn't.

Sexual Alchemy is only for Married couples.

Bachelors can do Yogic exercises, like Yantra Yoga and Pranayama, to stay in Chastity.


Also, profane government documents, or documents from non-Initiate priests, are not what constitutes Marriage.

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh." - Ephesians 5:31


"True marriage has nothing to do with the social or religious formulisms of this barbaric humanity." - Samael Aun Weor

Also:

What about celibacy...?

Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Mohammad, Quetzalquatl, etc., all practiced sexual magic, yet they did so in secrecy. In the previous era, in order to be initiated into the mysteries of sexuality, one had to first purify themselves through many years of intense efforts, and only then would they be told the secret of sexual magic. For example, a Tibetan monk who claimed that he had reached the stage of anuttarayoga tantra asked the Thirteenth Dalai Lama if he could practice with a consort; when the Dalai Lama asked for proof of his attainment, this monk took a yak's horn and tied it into a knot, therefore demonstrating his mastery over energy and matter. Only then did the Dalai Lama give his blessing for this monk to practice the Highest Yoga Tantrayana (sexual magic).

In the past everything related with sexual magic was kept in the deepest secrecy. Today this is no longer true. The times have changed. Now the mysteries of Eden (sex) are given to anyone who wishes to take advantage of them.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I knew about the "Church of Satan" and the actual Satanists but I had never heard of the branch that follows the Egyptian diety Set. Thanks for the info.

Like I said I figured that they wouldn't be allowed into Masonry I just didn't know for certain.

WOW not Sammy man, how did they get to him??

reply to post by Masonic Light


I haven't read up on the pentagram or much symbolism in about three or four years so I was just winging it. But you are correct, it is also tied into Pythagoras.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by lazy1981


Is that Madam Blavatsky or Blavatskaya? Didn't her teachings in some way become associated with the Thule society and in turn the Nazis?

Yes, but both Thule and the Nazis twisted the teachings of others in order to make them conform to their own doctrines. For example, the Nazis made a national hero out of Nietzsche, but censored his books to remove everything they didn't agree with. Neither Nietzsche nor Blavatsky would have approved of either the Thule Society or the Nazi Party.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by Masonic Light]

I don't doubt that the Nazis twisted some of her teachings but (again I'm winging it) I'm pretty sure that she was the one that spoke of the "Five Ages of Man" and that we would reach perfection in the Arian age with a new master race. I think that the whole Arian thing also took a bit from Indian lore. Never the less, I'm pretty sure that she also fell into the Eugenics camp. Though she may have been a product of her time, her ideas and teachings (along with the immortalized Darwin) helped fuel the fires of racist ideologies and the holocaust.

reply to post by Tamahu


I'm not very knowledgeable where Buddhism is concerned, so until I look into that I'll have to take you at your word. But it doesn't seem off to me. They have much symbolism that can be found in the other philosophies and religions.