Any ATS Members Familiar with the Golden Dawn?

I am interested in the various groups of the Golden Dawn and their teachings. I have always been into all things occult and am curious about what these groups have to offer.

I did do a search on the topic and decided to start a new thread because I am not interested in discussing is Al a satanist, etc...

Are there any members here who have interacted with any of the Golden Dawn groups? If so, what was your impression? Did you think positively or negatively of your experiences? Do you feel like it was a beneficial experience for you?

I know many of you who are in no way affiliated with the GD have information regarding this group and I would also be interested in hearing what you have to say.

I ask because I am interested in joining and learning what they have to offer. Still I am hesitant to do so without developing an understanding of the organization itself and first hand experience seems always seems like the best information to me.

Edit: I should not write before I finish my morning cup'o'joe.


[edit on 11-12-2007 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal


I am a long-time student of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. There are several organizations around today that claim to be "Golden Dawn". Some possibly have actual historical lineage through an early Adept, others not so much. But the original Order no longer exists.

I am a member of Builders of the Adytum. This society was founded by Dr. Paul Foster Case, who had served as Chief Adept of the Thoth-Hermes Temple, Alpha et Omega branch of the Golden Dawn in Chicago. The Alpha et Omega was Moina Mathers' lineage of the Order after her husband's death. Case resigned under pressure from Moina, and most of the Thoth-Hermes membership followed. This made the Alpha et Omega defunct in the USA, but also formed the nucleus for founding the BOTA.

reply to post by Masonic Light


So what are your impressions? Do you think that this experience has benefited your life? Have you learned lots? IS there any reason for me to fear the practices? Do you have opinions on the various orders? Any information you could offer would be great.

Edit: Masonic Light, is the BotA related to the masonic tradition?

[edit on 11-12-2007 by Animal]

Originally posted by Animal


So what are your impressions? Do you think that this experience has benefited your life?

Most certainly...I can't imagine life without it.

My interest in the esoteric was sparked when I was a teenage. I was a huge fan of the Beatles and Led Zeppelin. John Lennon put Aleister Crowley on the cover of the Beatles' Sgt. Peppers album, and Jimmy Page bought the Crowley estate in Scotland. This sparked my interest in him (Crolwey), and I began doing research. This led quickly to the Golden dawn, where Crowley received his early training. Even though I started out with Crowley materials, I became more interested in the traditional Golden Dawn.

Have you learned lots?

Yes. The BOTA system differs from the Golden Dawn in its teachings methods, focusing primarily on the occult usages of Tarot symbolism in regards to the Kabalah, wheras the Golden Dawn focused more on Ceremonial Magick. However, BOTA and GD techniques can be combined for those wishing to experiment with both.

IS there any reason for me to fear the practices?

There is a line in the Golden Dawn initiation ceremony of a Neophyte that says, "Fear is failure, so be thou without fear. For he who trembles at the flood, and the fire, and at the wind hath no part in God".

Masonic Light, is the BotA related to the masonic tradition?

The BOTA is not a Masonic organization, and does not require its members to be Masons. Like the Golden Dawn, BOTA also admits women.

BOTA's founder, Dr. Paul Foster Case, like many of the other male members of the Golden Dawn, was a Mason. The Golden Dawn was actually founded by members of the Masonic Rosicrucian Society of England, and used basically the same degree structure.

As I've suggested in the following post:

reply to post by Tamahu

 

As for Golden Dawn material...

...I would stick with the works of Wynn Westcott, S.L. MacGregor Mathers, and Dion Fortune.

It seems that most other Golden Dawn writings contain too many mistakes and/or unnecessary blinds.

Paul Foster Case' writings might be alright though.

With the exception of "The Kybalion", I've never read them.





[edit on 12-12-2007 by Tamahu]

If you are looking for a framework in which to train/experience what others only talk/read about, go ahead and join. Experiment. And if you are not 100% satisfied, go join something else. Its exciting to go join something without fully understanding what it is about.

I'll have to strongly disagree with that advice^^^.

"Rely on the teachings to evaluate a guru: Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism."

- His Holiness the Dalai Lama

Buddhism.Kalachakranet.Spiritual-Teacher-Guru

Before you decide to follow a spiritual teacher, it is extremely important to check him or her: there are quite a number of cheats around... In the old Indian tradition, teachers were often checked for 12 years or more before a student fully entrusted a teacher the spiritual guidance. It is easy to follow people blindly, especially the ones who are smooth talkers and are good salespeople. The reason why gurus are getting such bad names is because people should not have blindly trusted most of them to begin with...!



...Question: "How does one choose a teacher of spiritual subjects or know a teacher to be reliable?"


His Holiness the Dalai Lama:

"This should be done in accordance with your interest and disposition, but you should analyze well. You must investigate before accepting a lama or teacher to see whether that person is really qualified or not. It is said in a scripture that just as fish that are hidden under the water can be seen through the movement of the ripples from above, so also a teacher's inner qualities can, over time, be seen a little through that person's behavior.
We need to look into the person's scholarship -- the ability to explain topics -- and whether the person implements those teachings in his or her conduct and experience."

An excellent Gnostic audio-lecture on this:



Seeking The Master: Teachers and Students





[edit on 12-12-2007 by Tamahu]

The advice is based upon my belief in ones ability to intuit truth and ones ability to discern it from BS.

Of course, for those who dont believe they actually have those abilities, its a different story.

Well here's some advice from an actual Golden Dawn member:


Seeking the Master

Well...thats his advice. And I have my advice, which differs from your or his advice. So what?

Besides, the OP is not "seeking a master" but wondering what group to join.

We are all masters.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Well...thats his advice.

Her advice, actually.

And I have my advice, which differs from your or his advice.

That's fine and all, however:

So what?

So what? It is relevant to the thread, which is about the Golden Dawn, after all.

Besides, the OP is not "seeking a master" but wondering what group to join.

We are all masters.

If we were all Masters, then we should all be able to enter the Causal Plane at Will, and also know that we can determine our own time and place of Reincarnation; that is if we would even want to Reincarnate.

If we do not know this, then we are probably not yet a Master.





[edit on 12-12-2007 by Tamahu]

Fine.

Now, OP, you have a fine selection of different type of advice when you arrive back to your thread. Good luck sorting it all out.

thanks to all of you!

my final studio review is tomorrow (grad school / landscape architecture) so i cant read tonight.

i do appreciate you all taking the time and i will review it when i recover.

salutations

Why do you seek out another person to learn something? Obviously people can be unreliable, and very inconsistent, and often have their own desires at the forefront. All the things that are worth learning are self-evident and eternal, and you have to realize them for yourself for them to really mean anything to you at all. And believe it or not the knowledge will find ways to come to you when you're open to it, and the universe itself becomes your teacher. It doesn't get much better than that.

Really everything is already there for you, and all of the work is in "tuning" your brain to receive it. This entails things like thinking in abstract concepts and symbols rather than simply-defined words (you may begin to dislike how clumsy and dull words are, for expressing things you experience internally), being open to multitudes of meanings and information within single symbols (everything you see is a symbol for something(s)!), picking up on more subtle patterns and energies in your day-to-day reality, taking charge more of that reality, changing perspectives on things (try to keep a very fluid view of things, always open), etc., very hard stuff to talk about with everyday words, and I'm hardly doing justice to anything at all here. You can really get frustrated with how limited the English language is.

The Tao te Ching is an excellent read. I also found zen buddhism particularly helpful, and so I've heard is common for us Westerners. What I think is most wonderful about today, is the availability of information. You not only have more books than you need, you also have the Internet. You can probably find the great majority of Crowley's work online. Crowley put out a version of the Tao te Ching in one of the Equinox publications if I'm not mistaken, maybe you should check that out (I know I've read it online somewhere before). You might as well read up, as talk to someone else or join any group, because like I said, you have to do everything for yourself and internally in the end anyway.

Originally posted by bsbray11
You might as well read up, as talk to someone else or join any group, because like I said, you have to do everything for yourself and internally in the end anyway.

This of course is true....so why does the proper practice of Zen require one to submit to a Zen Master?

Since you mentioned Crowley, I will quote from him; I've always found this to be one of his better ideas. It is taken from the Preliminary Lection of Liber LXI:

In the Name of the Initiator, Amen.

1. In the beginning was Initiation. The flesh profiteth nothing; the mind profiteth nothing; that which is unknown to you and above these, while firmly based upon their equilibrium, giveth life.

2. In all systems of religion is to be found a system of Initiation, which may be defined as the process by which a man comes to learn that unknown Crown.

3. Though none can communicate either the knowledge or the power to achieve this, which we may call the Great Work, it is yet possible for initiates to guide others.

4. Every man must overcome his own obstacles, expose his own illusions. Yet others may assist him to do both, and they may enable him altogether to avoid many of the false paths, leading no whither, which tempt the weary feet of the uninitiated pilgrim. They can further insure that he is duly tried and tested, for there are many who think themselves to be Masters who have not even begun to tread the Way of Service that leads thereto.

5. Now the Great Work is one, and the Initiation is one, and the Reward is one, however diverse are the symbols wherein the Unutterable is clothed.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I have a question ML and I have tried wording it in a few different ways not to sound rude because I honestly want to know..

How does or does it even, being active in the occult effect your religious views of Christianity (which if I am mistaken you are?)

Of course you know I am not calling you a satan worshiper lol.. I am not Christian anyways, I am, if it is not to abrasive, just wondering.

Also, how does one enter the Golden Dawn .. google your local group?

Groups of my religion (which I still refuse to say on ATS so I won't think otherwise if you don't answer) are spread so thin that I was fortunate there is a decent size following in my area.

Anyways, thanks for the time Brother.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Technically, I am an Episcopalian. The views of Episcopalians differ widely, and mine are more along the traditional line of Gnostic Christianity. Throughout the ages, many clergy and even Fathers of the Church hhave held Gnostic views.

Since I consider pure primitive Christianity to have been of the Gnostic variety, I see no conflict between occultism and traditional Christianity (indeed, they are often identical).

As for joining the Golden Dawn, there are now various organizations who claim to be the Golden Dawn, but I don't much about them. All of them were created relatively recently, and none of them can claim any direct lineage to the original, although some can claim indirect succession.

My only personal experiences are with Builders of the Adytum, which is not technically a G.'.D.'. group, but which derived from the G.'.D.'. Dion Fortune's Society of the Inner Light and Aleister Crowley's A.'.A..'. also attempted to preserve some of the more important G.'.D.'. teachings and practices.

I would suggest, if you haven't already, obtaining a copy of Regardie's book and becoming thoroughly acquainted with it if you have an interest in the Golden Dawn, it is truly a masterpiece of esoteric wisdom.

Ahhh, the Golden Dawn. Bless them. They were influential and essential in the development not only in modern day occultism, but also in the revival of Neo Paganism, Wicca in paticular.

A wonderful organization that was unfortunately torn apart by egos and petty bickering. They could have gone so much further.

Sorry to butt in, but what do you mean by the casual plane and is reincarnation what you believe in? Also, so freemasonry is actually a gnostic belief system? And if freemasonry and other societies associated with freemasonry like the Golden Dawn and the Eastern Star are gnostic in nature, then is it possible that the capital "G" displayed directly above the worshipful master actually stands for gnostism? Would that not mock the beliefs of the of the holy scriptures that are present at the time also? Like as if it were saying, all religions actually belong to gnostic orgin.....

Not an attack here, just trying to peice together the puzzle.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by spirit7]

Does this have anything to do with the meaning of the Golden Dawn?

HYMN to HATHOR
Blue-lidded daughter of dawn, golden lady of the
mountains, carrier of her father's wisdom, let an old man
rest in your arms. Let him look last on love's face, breath-
ing love's breath. I live in light a million years. The sun
rises or sets now--it matters not. Here is ecstasy in death
and certainty in life. We are gods in the body of god, truth
and love our destinies. Go then and make the world
something beautiful, set up a light in the darkness.