Ghosts are spirits serving Satan

Originally posted by chickenfeet
reply to post by ahornsby

 

i actually live in ireland and no i have not been to south america, i would love too though but as for missionaries exorcising demons, sorry i have never seen real footage of it happening, so i will take your word on that.

i am not disrepecting you or your beliefs here but

in regards to the spiritual. we are conditioned to believe in self awareness and that man is a God. i hope and pray that god will open your eyes so that you are not blinded by this anymore. if you are blind to it then the devil has got you half way. the bible says he comes like a thief in the night. not as a traveling salesman with a big sign that says Im the DEVIL.

i know what happened to me that morning and it did happen, a spirit of a close friend came to visit me for a reason but that reason was far from being evil.

you are CONDITIONED to believe what you have been told about god.
god will never open my eyes because i dont believe, sorry but i dont and never will unless he gives me proof, solid proof.

i am CONDITIONED to believe in what i experience and see and i conditioned myself that way, no one else made me think that way, not even the devil.

i was taught all about the bible when i was young but even then i could not believe it, so if your right about the devil, he has had me from about the age of 9 and i can assure you, i am far from being a nasty person

i believe in spirits but not in the way you do.

as i said, i do not mean too disrespect you or your beliefs
and these are my beliefs

chickenfeet

i agree to disagree with you.lol
i was not trying to disrespectfull either.
now i personally have had terrible experiences with spirits before i became a christian. and i at the present live in a house that is haunted by something. both my wife and i have seen evidence of it but never seen it.lol but i also have had dreams of spirits that have come to visit me. one of my grandmother after she died. i did not get to see her and was very upset that i did not get to say my peace. that night she came to me in a dream and comforted me.
i worked at the V.A hospital on the Psych ward and i met a man i would testify was possessed by a demon. he was tied to a metal bed with railes. you know like a hospital bed. he had a crazed look in his eye and when i stepped in the room he went nuts. saying he did not want me there. and begged me to take off my cross. he was so strong he bent the bed railes and folded them down toward the ground against the normal way they are supposed to go.
if you look for it you will know when you come across a demon. and it will scare you.i promise. i dont know if you have read the bible but there is a story where a profit was alone with his servant and an army was after him and god opened the eyes of the servant and the profit and they saw the angels sent to protect them. i believe that being able to see angels and demons is a special gift. and it can be explained by science. there is only a small portion of light frequency we as humans can see. then there is infared. and so on if we as humans could change the frequency we see on then i bet we would be totaly amazed by the spirit world that we can not see. do you follow me or am i just rambling?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by wardk28
If there hasn't been any spiritual activity, then more people would believe there is nothing after you die, therefor not accepting Christ= go directly to Hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Good point!!! A+ critical thinking here. I'd like to hear an address to this if anyone has one.

(You knew I would)

The natural tendency is for Man to want something "more" in terms of his existence. Belief in the afterlife is a part of our psyche. Man has a natural desire to seek God even though atheists will deny it. I've always thought an atheist was merely someone "holding out for God to come to him."

Remember, Satan wants to be worshipped as God. If he just lays low and lets people go to Hell, they arrive knowing full well what they've gotten themselves into. If the Devil can deceive people on earth into worshipping something other than God, then he is "stealing" what is due God.

Remember, Spiritualism and Spiritism both look to the dead for answers. How convenient. The "dead" are often there to provide them. When you look to spirits for answers to the afterlife, you think you don't need God anymore, so the pattern goes.

Originally posted by ahornsby
i believe that being able to see angels and demons is a special gift. and it can be explained by science. there is only a small portion of light frequency we as humans can see. then there is infared. and so on if we as humans could change the frequency we see on then i bet we would be totaly amazed by the spirit world that we can not see. do you follow me or am i just rambling?

Hmmmm...never thought of that. I considered it a "spiritual gift," but having a scientific explanation is okay too.

reply to post by Zane Zackerly


I, too, believe that ghosts are actually demons trying to deceive us. They do not have to appear to be evil and fearful for the deception to work. They are not here just to strike fear in us and make us afraid. Their main goal is to deceive us. And a "good" spirit works just as well for that purpose because they divert people's attention away from the truth.

The truth is, that when you die, you die. The soul does not live forever. Satan is real and so are demons. No, we cannot see them. But they can make us see things. Illusions. Mirages. Whatever you want to call them. Anyway, God said that if you sin, you will surely die. But Satan said that you will NOT die. And Satan also uses false religion and politics to deceive mankind.

Some will label me as a closed minded bible believer. But I don't shut out one side in favor of the other. I believe that "ghosts" and "UFO's" are something that people really see. But I also believe that the bible is more than just a "book written by some guys wanting power". I see how they are connected.

From personal experiance I believe the OP statements to be true, I know my past relatives would only have love for me, my experiance shows that you can tell by the total lack of good, the total desire to control and decieve, they even trip on their own lies.

Faith is the opposite of fear: I agree they feed of the negative emotions, or more there goal is to turn you to the darker emotions because that is there domain, they can not penatrate into your soul if you are in the peace and love of Christ.

There is a sour edge to them, it reeks of, well, evil, I believe they project anxiety and fear, the most important verse that I remembered was "My sheep know my voice"

Believe it or not, its your choice.

As sort of an "add-on" to this:

Evil spirits can masquerade as people who are still living as well.

I wish I could remember the program, but on a recent religious TV show, a guest was relating a story of how her son, who was fighting in Vietnam, had been reported missing in action.

Being a Christian, she prayed for his safety.

As days went by, she began to be visited by her son's "ghost." She knew at that point her son was dead.

This spirit tried to comfort her. As her son, he told her all was well, he was better off in the afterlife, etc.

Several weeks went by.

Her son was eventually found alive and well in the Vietnamese jungle. The spirit of her "son" had been a deception!

Originally posted by Redge777
From personal experiance I believe the OP statements to be true, I know my past relatives would only have love for me, my experiance shows that you can tell by the total lack of good, the total desire to control and decieve, they even trip on their own lies.

Faith is the opposite of fear: I agree they feed of the negative emotions, or more there goal is to turn you to the darker emotions because that is there domain, they can not penatrate into your soul if you are in the peace and love of Christ.

There is a sour edge to them, it reeks of, well, evil, I believe they project anxiety and fear, the most important verse that I remembered was "My sheep know my voice"

Believe it or not, its your choice.

Well said. Well said.

I'm still here and reading, by all means continue. Agree or disagree isn't as much of an issue for me as thinking things through. Seems like there's a good amount of it going on so nothing for me to add at this time .

Here comes another can of worms I'm ripping open:

In addition to ghosts, I believe that vampire, werewolf, and other mythological creature legends are demonic in origin. It's not that these beings are real, physical vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, or whatever; it's that these forms are taken by the demonic and are simply being reported by witnesses as these mythical creatures.

Similarly, there is evidence to at least suggest that phenomena such as UFO's, Bigfoot, and even the Loch Ness monster may in fact be demonic in origin!

I won't go into minute detail because this thread could go on for pages and pages.

I would recommend some of the books written by Brad Steiger. I choose him because his writings will appeal to both religious and non-religious readers.

Whether you believe in a devil or not, you'll find his works fascinating.

He is not a particularly religious person, yet even he is willing to conclude that ALL of these phenomena appear to be directed by a SINGLE, MALEVOLENT INTELLIGENCE.

Wow, I've got to admit, I love disagreeing with Zane because I know whatever response I'm going to get is going to be interesting. Okay, let's start with the monkey-wrench throwing. Imagine if you will (queue Twilight Zone music) in 1753, a man encounters a wolverine for the first time. The wolverine tears the crap out of him, but he lives to run home and patch himself up. Two weeks later he's at the corner store to pick up food and he tells the people there "watch out for this demonic critter with claws and bright eyes in the woods who will tear you up!" The people chuckle because they'd never seen a wolverine as he describes it. Is it a logical conclusion that said wolverine is "of the devil"? Why or why not?


[edit on 4-10-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Wow, I've got to admit, I love disagreeing with Zane because I know whatever response I'm going to get is going to be interesting. Okay, let's start with the monkey-wrench throwing. Imagine if you will (queue Twilight Zone music) in 1753, a man encounters a wolverine for the first time. The wolverine tears the crap out of him, but he lives to run home and patch himself up. Two weeks later he's at the corner store to pick up food and he tells the people there "watch out for this demonic critter with claws and bright eyes in the woods who will tear you up!" The people chuckle because they'd never seen a wolverine as he describes it. Is it a logical conclusion that said wolverine is "of the devil"? Why or why not?


[edit on 4-10-2007 by saint4God]

That has actually happened on occasion. The book "Unexplained Mysteries" by Jerome Clark lists a couple of prominent ones where the "phenomena" was nothing more than a wolf.

Recently, in the Southwest, people have killed animals purported to be the famed Chupacabras--but have turned out to be coyotes with mange. Those dirty veterinarians just won't let people have any fun!

Remember, too, that the gorilla was an unknown species until the 19th Century. Before that it was considered a "legend" of a hairy wild man in Africa.

But how do you explain away critters like the Flatwoods Monster, Mothman, or the Dover Demon? I am assuming for the sake of discussion that not ALL of these can be hoaxes. The Mothman, for one, is too well documented.

Read the book "The Mothman Prophecies" by John Keel.

Keel is another who doesn't really approach things from a religious standpoint, but like Steiger, he suggests demonic influence without even realizing it.

Further food for thought:

1. Why do some UFO's appear to be shape-shifters? Can spacecraft change shape?

2. Why is there a ranch in Utah where all kinds of phenomena happen, from giant wolf-like creatures to UFO's to phantom orbs?

3. Why do ghosts often manifest with the stench of sulphur (brimstone)--and so do some UFO's?

4. Why do demons often manifest the stench of feces or other unpleasant odors--and so do hairy bipeds like Bigfoot?

5. Why do some UFO occupants appear to be able to walk through walls just like ghosts?

Shall I go on?

Okay...

I was visited by a demon once.

At first it tried to get me to believe it was an "alien."

When I didn't believe its story it became very enraged.

Only prayer got rid of it.

That's the short version of that story.

[edit on 10/4/07 by Zane Zackerly]

[edit on 10/4/07 by Zane Zackerly]

I know that the devil is at best a Tulpa created by the collective thoughts of people. Most likely the devil is used by the christians to explain the bad things in the world. The ignorance, the Greed, and the Anger. The devil is really a symbol for these poisons. Not, I repeat, NOT a real external entity unto itself. Rather an internal entity, representing mankinds evil thoughts and desires.

Ghosts are consciousnessess (idk if thats a word) that have an excess of negative energy when they die. And they thus do not go to another birth right away, but they are sort of "stuck" on this plane without a body. The buddhist call this a 'hungry ghost' because they are said to always be hungry and thirsty but they cannot eat or drink. They will eventually come to another birth. But it can take a long long time. Are they serving satan? If satan is our own desire and ignorance, then yes, i believe that they are here because they had an excess of desire and ignorance when they died.

People tend to externalize their fears. For instance fear of heights could really be called the fear of falling, or the fear of dying. Which is an internal fear externalized to make it better understood. Satan is the same, He is an external representation of internal fears and desires. Jesus was tempted by satan on the hill overlooking jerusalem that if he would worship satan all he could see could be his. This is symbolic for Jesus being tempted by his own material desires, the desire for power mainly. But he was stronger then his desires, and he did not give in.

Use you mind, use your heart, dont believe things unless they are conductive to the good and benifit of one and all. Dont believe things unless it makes sense to you. Dont believe things if they lead to negative thoughts. If we focus only on god and forget about satan, 'he' would surely dissapear. Instead it seems we focus more on satan and the evil of the world than we do on God and the good things of the world. We are a Sad lot.

peace.

I just have to disagree with you, gravytrain.

What wanted to kill me one night was a real, external being, not "Monsters from the Id", as you would imply.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
The Mothman, for one, is too well documented.

Okay okay hold up, this is going to be a VERY tough sell to me. Reason being is I work in a lab with moths and there a few 'issues' in considering a hybridized creature exists. We could start with the lungs. Does the mothman has insect lungs or mammalian lungs? Either answer destroys the theory. Even 'hybridized' does not work physiologically.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
1. Why do some UFO's appear to be shape-shifters? Can spacecraft change shape?

Certainly. We have one called an F-14 Tomcat.

Here is shape A:

And here is shape B:

I love the way it looks...wish they were only made for joyriding.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
2. Why is there a ranch in Utah where all kinds of phenomena happen, from giant wolf-like creatures to UFO's to phantom orbs?

Marketing. What else would you sell if your govenor of Utah? A lake with nothing in it?

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
3. Why do ghosts often manifest with the stench of sulphur (brimstone)--and so do some UFO's?

Same can be said for construction sites and airbases, probably for similar reasons of "UFO's". Regarding ghosts, dunno the answer to that. Not heard of consistant accounts of ghost smells.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
4. Why do demons often manifest the stench of feces or other unpleasant odors--and so do hairy bipeds like Bigfoot?

I'd presume because Bigfoot wouldn't use toliet paper. Regarding demons, the one I met didn't smell like that (or at all) but again I haven't heard consistant accounts. There seems to be a conflict though if ghost smells like sulfur and demons smell like crap, then logically they're not the same.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
5. Why do some UFO occupants appear to be able to walk through walls just like ghosts?

One would argue that aliens use science and ghosts are not physical. The science gets really interesting. In looking at atoms, one cannot help but wonder how anything would collide with anything else. The reason is electron speed. Theoretically you should be able to slow down the bugger in both the enactor and the target to where they 'pass by' or through one another without interference. Physics wasn't my major but the theories are fun to explore.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
Shall I go on?

If you like

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
Okay...

Cool, it's like you knew my answer before I said it. Mind powers perhaps?

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
I was visited by a demon once.

At first it tried to get me to believe it was an "alien."

When I didn't believe its story it became very enraged.

Only prayer got rid of it.

That's the short version of that story.

No fair. You can't show a teaser without selling tickets for the movie. You cook the popcorn and I'll call Fandango. Seriously though, I'd certainly like to hear the full version, believer to believer.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by saint4God]

Interesting ideas Zane, I gave you a star.

I know it may not be a likeable theory though, because people just love the concept of Ghosts and hauntings and all that sort of spooky stuff. They find it fascinating, but some are so enthralled by it, they attempt to practice magic or contact the dead (witches, false prophets, Ouija board users, etc).

Now, when I say witches I do not mean followers of "New Age Wicca". I just think THEY are attempting to revive something they just do not have enough accurate existing information for, so they make a bunch of it up and draw from other sources, other religions, to fill this gap. All this "guardians of the watch towers" stuff is a bit silly. But thats just me. Im sure they think Jesus is silly.

To the topic: I like this, the concept that all those whom are saved goto heaven immediately, while those not saved are the ones you see as Ghosts, except under the direction of evil, as you say.

But, I don't know if its true. The Bible is pretty sketchy on the concept of:

1) Who goes to heaven when

2) Who goes to hell and when

3) What happens if you don't goto either

4) Do you goto heaven immediately, or only after the first resurrection?

5) Since Judgement is after Messiah comes and destroys the evil doers, hehe *smirk*, are we not judged or admitted to Heaven or Hell until after the Messiah comes?

6) If so, what do the souls do that lie in wait?


And this is where I draw from Judaism in my Arian/Gnostic Judeo-Christian practice. If im not mistaken, and if I am and any practicing Jew notices please correct me, souls do not go to heaven/hell after the person dies. They go to a place called Sheol, which kind of translates into "the Grave" i believe, which is a kind of "sleep" during the wait for the Messiah. When Messiah comes, all are resurrected from their graves, and then the righteous goto Heaven?

I may be wrong. It might be that you goto Heaven if you are saved and deemed worthy in God's proverbial eye, and everyone else who wasn't a saint in their life, but wasn't necessarily evil either, just simply goes to their grave, into a sleep that lasts until the Messiah comes and the resurrection occurs. In that sense Sheol would be like Purgatory, except you are not concious in Sheol; you are unawares. So the resurrection would seem like being born again almost, or waking up one morning. You know how theres no recollection of time while you are asleep, and if really tired, one can goto sleep, then wake up the following morning and feel as if no time had passed, yet they'd been lying there for 10 hours. I guess it is like that; you'll awaken to the resurrection and your last day alive will feel like yesterday, even if its' 2000 years from now that Messiah comes.

From there, I take Messiah and say Jesus was Messiah and he did come once, in the flesh, to fulfill the prophecies written about him, so that the faithful would have these completed prophecies and signs to know that he will return in a uber-powerful form as the Messiah of all. So the Jews will see Jesus as Messiah's first arrival, where as Christians will see him as the second coming. It is really irrelevant at that point, so long that the Messiah had indeed come, I think everyone except those who are evil would be quite happy at that.

But then again, theres an awful lot of dying prophecized for the last days, who knows how that will happen.

Now, if Sheol is like purgatory except more of a solitary confinement that one is unawares in, then one could be "sleep walking" as a spirit while they wait in Sheol, which is literally translated into something like "Underneath" or under the ground. A grave, you are buried. Well the Ghosts folks see could be those in Sheol sleep-walking! Yes I know I am sounding pretty silly right now.


I'd really like to hear some Atheist or Agnostic view points on this:

Let's assume for discussion one goes to 'sheol' or a state after death where one is completely unawares, and is for intent and purpose asleep with no dreams. Just a blank nothingness. The way many picture a Godless, non-existent afterlife to be actually like. That is, just an infinity of nothing, you are removed from this One world of this one existence, and thats it.

Since most Atheists would say "yes this is how I picture post-death, absolutely nothing for infinity", what if on one of those days of nothingness, you actually "woke up" to the Resurrection? And you could remember the day that you died, or the events leading up to your death, and it felt like it was only yesterday, as if you had been sleeping for one night, or as if maybe this was happening immediately after you died, even though in actuality it's happening 100, 200, or 2000 years after you died!

So its like: Life, Death, Sheol, then Resurrection from nothingness, into a spiritual form that resembles beautiful human beings. Then judgment occurs right then and there, and the damned are then destroyed for eternity or, as some believe, the damned would then be given a special form to feel pain and torment without being in the physical materialistic world so that your torture can be on-going. I don't really as of right now believe in such a place, I think being eternally destroyed would be a stiffer penalty than being able to exist immortally, albiet in constant pain and torment.

Anyway, I was curious the Atheists viewpoint on "waking up" from this "sleep" or "void", into some kind of different existence upon resurrection?

Does that concept go over better with you than "Those who die instantly go to Heaven if they were good and Hell if they were bad" ? Because even the Christian Bible is misinterpreted on that subject, and that isn't the way it is supposed to go, post-mortem. I believe from my studies that only the most devout, saintly types go to Heaven immediately, and vast majority of the human race, even the believers, have to lie in sheol and await the resurrection. Just wondering what you think, let me know!


[edit on 10/4/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
The Mothman, for one, is too well documented.

Okay okay hold up, this is going to be a VERY tough sell to me. Reason being is I work in a lab with moths and there a few 'issues' in considering a hybridized creature exists. We could start with the lungs. Does the mothman has insect lungs or mammalian lungs? Either answer destroys the theory. Even 'hybridized' does not work physiologically.

You're kidding me, right?

Mothman was just the name it got from a character on the Batman TV series of the sixties.

We're talking about a man-sized, bat-winged creature without a discernible head and two glowing red eyes on its "torso". It seemed to be able to hypnotize people.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly

2. Why is there a ranch in Utah where all kinds of phenomena happen, from giant wolf-like creatures to UFO's to phantom orbs?

Marketing. What else would you sell if your govenor of Utah? A lake with nothing in it?

Touche.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
1. Why do some UFO's appear to be shape-shifters? Can spacecraft change shape?

Certainly. We have one called an F-14 Tomcat.

Here is shape A:

And here is shape B:

I love the way it looks...wish they were only made for joyriding.

Ahhhhh, but we're talking about something changing so radically that no definite shape can be discerned: disc to cylinder, etc.

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
You're kidding me, right?

Mothman was just the name it got from a character on the Batman TV series of the sixties.

We're talking about a man-sized, bat-winged creature without a discernible head and two glowing red eyes on its "torso". It seemed to be able to hypnotize people.

I've seen 'pictures' that are never consistent, the idea of him being moth-relative as in nocturnally and wing morphology. I hadn't heard 'bat-winged' before...which is ironic because if it came from Batman, it should be called batman :-D. Maybe the critter fights crime. The hypnotism is a new one to me. Again, if someone can pin down (pun intented) what mothman is supposed to be, sure I'd be interested in hearing, however it sounds a bit different then both demons and their intensions.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Zane Zackerly
I was visited by a demon once.

At first it tried to get me to believe it was an "alien."

When I didn't believe its story it became very enraged.

Only prayer got rid of it.

That's the short version of that story.

No fair. You can't show a teaser without selling tickets for the movie. You cook the popcorn and I'll call Fandango. Seriously though, I'd certainly like to hear the full version, believer to believer.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by saint4God]

I'd like to reply to the rest of your comments, but rather than do that I'll take the "cop-out" answer and invite you to study further. Books by Brad Steiger, Jerome Clark, Whitley Strieber, et al, don't present a complete picture, but if you put it all together it suggests a grand strategy by what Brad Steiger calls "The Cosmic Trickster."

People who see UFO's often see Bigfoot or have poltergeist infestations as well. People who experience any of the phenomena we've discussed have often dabbled in the occult.

THE MAIN PROBLEM is that the UFO people don't follow what the ghost people consider phenomena, the Bigfoot people don't follow the UFO people or the witchcraft people, and so on. A study of ALL phenomena leads one to seeing a bigger picture: it MAY, I say MAY, all be related.

My demon experience?

I was lying in bed one night with my face pointing away from the window. SOMETHING that I could not see because of the way I was facing came to the window and tried to communicate with my telepathically. At first, it tried to convince me it was an "alien". When I didn't believe that story, it became enraged. I KNEW it was an external entity: NOT sleep paralysis, not some kind of hallucination, etc. When you see a bear you know it's a bear and not a dog.

This thing became so full of hate that I knew if I turned over and looked at it, that it would kill me. I began to pray to God to make it go away. It left finally, and I could "feel" its presence leave the area.

That thing inadvertently gave me some ammuntion with which to fight ALL of them: by lying about being an alien, it planted a seed in my mind that some, maybe not all, so-called "extraterrestrial" encounters are demonic.

I'll be the first to suggest that there may really be aliens and that not all "alien" encounters are demonic. But this one was.