Did the Space Shuttle dock at the Secret Space Station tonight?

Originally posted by goosdawg
I repeat, a large-scale, secret military project!!

"Large-scale"? Maybe it's a matter of perception. Do you not see the immensity of the alleged activities? Can you not conceive of the numbers of people and the timeframe involved in this? According to Lear....decades....since the mid 60s. Involving several different countries.

NASA currently has, a rough approximation here, a quarter million users that have logins and access to their network and computer systems. They have publicly admitted that they don't know exactly how many of them are dead.

You can keep throwing flowery sentences out 'till the cows come home.....it doesn't change anything....a secret this large and involved could not be maintained with the success you're suggesting. Can't be done.

Have you considered this? Maybe the reason a secret never gets revealed is because there was never a secret to begin with? Most of the people here seem to be fairly bright....the simple logic of that should appeal to many of them.

[edit on 17-11-2007 by MrPenny]

[edit on 17-11-2007 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by MrPenny
NASA currently has, a rough approximation here, a quarter million users that have logins and access to their network and computer systems. They have publicly admitted that they don't know exactly how many of them are dead.

Or how and why they died either, I'll wager.

Well isn't that convenient?

Keep in mind, NASA is a DoD endeavor.

Besides, that doesn't take into account all the military contractor's employees.

That's why it's called a large-scale, secret military project.

Does every drop in the ocean know what their brothers and sisters two drops away are doing?

No.

But they can all join together, and with a little help from the moon and mother nature, float the mightiest ship, or send it straight to the bottom.

Originally posted by goosdawg
Keep in mind, NASA is a DoD endeavor.

Officially, only very recently. For a very long time, NASA was publicly acknowledged as being independent of Department of Defense control.

Well isn't that convenient?

Yes, for actuarials, it is. Wouldn't want them skewing the tables, would we?

But they can all join together, and with a little help from the moon and mother nature, float the mightiest ship, or send it straight to the bottom.

That's a wonderfully constructed piece of hyperbole. What the hell does it mean?

And why do my debate points get noticeably ignored? Tough to counter maybe?

[edit on 17-11-2007 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by MrPenny
And despite the title of this thread, Mr. Lear has stated he believes there are eight secret space stations orbiting earth;

I read a thread where he believed between five and eight could be orbiting the Earth. I don't recall him saying that there were exactly eight.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by goosdawg
Keep in mind, NASA is a DoD endeavor.

Officially, only very recently. For a very long time, NASA was publicly acknowledged as being independent of Department of Defense control.

Actually, they've been a tool of the military since the get go.

Oh please, don't whine for the proof, it's a DoD secret, don't you know?

And we should believe everything NASA publicly acknowledges?

The New York Times | Air Safety Details Held Up
The New York Times | Air Safety Cover-Up: Worse Than The Data?

Originally posted by MrPenny
That's a wonderfully constructed piece of hyperbole. What the hell does it mean?

Thank you, but it's an analogy, not an hyperbole, perhaps that's why you choose to say you don't understand.

Originally posted by MrPenny
And why do my debate points get noticeably ignored?

No more so then you of mine, eh?

What's good for the goose should be good for the slander, what?

Just because it's difficult for you to wrap your head around the concept of a huge, nay, massive, cover-up by the military/industrial complex, doesn't mean it's not possible.

In fact, I would counter, it's quite within the realm of possibility, given that great multi-trillion dollar "wars" can be fought based upon lies and half-truths.

And we are dealing here with possibilities, you know, since nothing can be proven, one way or the other, until the truth is out.

And the cows are still out on that pasture...

Originally posted by goosdawg
Oh please, don't whine for the proof, it's a DoD secret, don't you know?

But....you know it?

Your style is insufferable. More so than mine.....which is really bad.

Originally posted by vannein
In John Lear's world, the military managed to keep all of that completely underwraps and I find it unbelievable.

Now think about that comment a minute... IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me? Because there are leaks and there are thousands of documents available to give hints and clues as to whats going on...

But most people will not bother to ever look... If its not on Youtube it doesn't exist... The skeptics won't look because they are so sure they are right, that there can be no other possibility... the general population is interested but have not the time or the patience to pour over those boring tech reports that are difficult to understand...

I have heard people here who say that they are in a 'better position' to hear such stories.. then say John or myself...

This may be true they may be closer to the 'inside' but if you were leaking info, would you leak it to a fellow employee? How do you know he won't rush to his superior and snitch?

No you would go to people you can trust will keep your confidentiality ( and believe me that is HARD to do when you want to tell) and have the ability to get the word out to the public...


As to the comment about skulking about at .mil sites... It is not dangerous if you go in through the front door... that British fellow snuck in the back door.

Well naturally the front door approach has limits to be sure, but you find friendly staff willing to help you to a point, while the other direction tends to get you visits from those nice gentlemen who talk in a monotone and prefer dark colors in their attire...

The main stream news media could show this stuff... but who would really be interested? So they don't bother

Well lets see if we can't toss a few other space drives into the mix and ruffle some more feathers...



Coming Soon

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by goosdawg
Oh please, don't whine for the proof, it's a DoD secret, don't you know?

But....you know it?

No more than you know, and can prove, that I'm wrong.

Originally posted by MrPenny
Your style is insufferable. More so than mine.....which is really bad.

At times, perhaps, and that goes for both of us.

But I'll make no apologies, and expect none in return.

But I will put you back on my "respected foes" list, if that'll make you feel any better.

So having said it, no sooner done.

We may take opposing views here, MrPenny, but it doesn't mean we can't enjoy the exchange, no?



[edit on 17-11-2007 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by goosdawg
We may take opposing views here, MrPenny, but it doesn't mean we can't enjoy the exchange, no?

The exchange is fine....providing the style doesn't get in the way.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by vannein
In John Lear's world, the military managed to keep all of that completely underwraps and I find it unbelievable.

Now think about that comment a minute... IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me?

Because you fellas don't.

John openly says he lives in the world of fantasy and you should have the guts to admit the same. Meet for a role playing galactic game over some nice ceylon tea. It's fun.

Originally posted by vannein

Originally posted by zorgon
Now think about that comment a minute... IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me?

Because you fellas don't.

Ahh, but that's where you're wrong; these fellas do!

You ain't seen nothin' yet
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain't seen nothin' yet
Here's something that you never gonna forget
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain't seen nothin' yet

Just you wait and see.

reply to post by Havalon

I wonder how many people knew about the stealth fighter before it rolled out of the hanger and flew it's first mission? The military did a pretty good job of keeping that a secret. Also consider how many parts went into building, avionics, computer programing etc etc!

No they didn't. You have to remember not to compare past secret keeping abilities in an effort to lend credence to modern conspiracies. This may work to convince some shallow thinkers, because on the surface it makes sense, however, as with this whole forum, it falls apart under the slightest amount of examination using common sense, reason and logic.

First of all, you could have found out the existence of the whole stealth program with 2-4 well placed phone calls. I say phone calls, because there was no internet back then (in it's present form, don't argue semantics on that). Heck, there were only, like, 3 tv channels back then, lol. Very easy to maintain average security when all you had to do is keep it from being published in a select few magazines (and it was anyway) or T.V. channels, lol. I assure you, our enemies knew about it. The secrecy level for the stealth program could not have stood up to the instant informational overload and prying eyes of those that want to know in these modern, present times. Back then you did not have thousands, upon thousands of people communicating daily, in public as we do here, about things that are experimental, secret, or even fantasy (as in this forum, lol).

Just a word of advice, anytime someone tries to bolster some fantasy conspiracy theory with lines of thought like this, it only shows the lack of understanding and ignorance of those who believe in these theories.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by vannein
In John Lear's world, the military managed to keep all of that completely underwraps and I find it unbelievable.

Now think about that comment a minute... IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me?

Because you and he made it all up? Thats the simplest and most logical answer. There is zero evidence for his and your assertions, and your denial of the intelligence and capabilities of Astronomers and skywatchers is also alarming

The main stream news media could show this stuff... but who would really be interested? So they don't bother

Facile argument. They dont bother because there is no reality in both your and Lears claims

Coming Soon

How many times have you made that statement?

Originally posted by The Todal
Because you and he made it all up?

[sarcasm]Don't forget me, I made it all up too! And I got rich off it, to the tune of $2M while you suckers fell for it!

And I am tax exempt too, because I belong to one of those super-rich and all powerful families![/sarcasm]

Why is it debunkers and skeptics are a dime a dozen? Shall The Toadl go on ignore?

Originally posted by Matyas

Why is it debunkers and skeptics are a dime a dozen? Shall The Toadl go on ignore?

Actually its all fantasists, and hoaxers are a dime a dozen as is eminently demonstrated here

But do you honestly think I care what you do?

All your actions will achieve, is to ignore the real truth.
But then as you and several others here live in a world created almost of total fantasy, you wont know much difference will you?.

reply to post by johnlear


From the looks of the rest of there schedule, Mastracchio, Williams and Anderson will be doing a few spacewalks, some repairs, examining the heat shield more than once, they will both complete the 5S installations, a 5000 pound 5S truss segment will be installed onto the ISS's backbone and the last 3 days is preperations to arrive. Examing the ship itself and making sure everything is A-Ok so they don't Columbia themselves across the US.

Seems to me they're just taking more time to make sure everything is done right and accordingly and repeating the process for saftey.

Originally posted by The Todal
Actually its all fantasists,

Generalization

and hoaxers are a dime a dozen as is eminently demonstrated here

Show us this demonstration of hoaxing you are referring to.

But do you honestly think I care what you do?

Do you think I care what you think?

All your actions will achieve, is to ignore the real truth.

Perhaps you should enlighten us as to what the "real truth" is, since you claim to have an inside track.

But then as you and several others here live in a world created almost of total fantasy, you wont know much difference will you?.

List the several others.

And I should say;

fantasy to you, a greater world to us.

Unless you are talking about fairy tales and you are The Toad.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


Hi ITF!
Thanks for the reply to my post. Always good to hear the voice of reason and logic. I would respectfully request your logical mind to address some of the following.

No they didn't. You have to remember not to compare past secret keeping abilities in an effort to lend credence to modern conspiracies.

I don’t necessarily believe that first statement, using reason and logic, you would find that there are many ‘secrets’ still in place from the first and second world wars.

First of all, you could have found out the existence of the whole stealth program with 2-4 well placed phone calls.

I do not believe that for one second!
Are you telling me that Russians (for example) could get that information from a couple of well placed phone calls!
Do you have the numbers? I would like to see what the latest aircraft designs look like. Just using logic here!

Very easy to maintain average security when all you had to do is keep it from being published in a select few magazines (and it was anyway) or T.V. channels, lol.

I would agree with ‘average’ security, but ‘top secret’ security is another issue, and ‘black budget’ projects are a step or two up from that.

The secrecy level for the stealth program could not have stood up to the instant informational overload and prying eyes of those that want to know in these modern, present times.

Using that logic, could you show me where the formula for the paint used on the stealth aircraft is on the net?

Just a word of advice,

I always pay attention when someone chooses to give me advice,
however, if you think I am trying to ‘bolster’ a fantasy conspiracy theory, then I am afraid you are mistaken.

Originally posted by The Todal

Originally posted by zorgon
Coming Soon

How many times have you made that statement?

MANY TIMES and I shall make in many more times... It's my style... let people know what I am about to present when I have time. But 'contributors' like yourself have little understand of the time necessary to dig up this stuff... they are too busy whining "there is nothing there... but I know the "Real Truth"... to bad they don't have the time to share that ulitmate knowledge

There is zero evidence for his and your assertions,

Ofcourse you make that statement after having read all of the hundreds of official documents I have linked to...
you know... those ones that most skeptics totally ignore?

Originally posted by MrPenny
The exchange is fine....providing the style doesn't get in the way.

I don't know how things work where you are from. but here in America freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of the press are values many have died for.

Originally posted by vannein
IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me?

Because you fellas don't.

And you know this how? I see by your points that you are new here, (though I doubt that) Have you actually READ any of the links I post to back things up?

Originally posted by Havalon

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts

I wonder how many people knew about the stealth fighter before it rolled out of the hanger and flew it's first

mission? The military did a pretty good job of keeping that a secret. Also consider how many parts went into building, avionics, computer programing etc etc!

No they didn't. You have to remember not to compare past secret keeping abilities in an effort to lend credence to modern conspiracies. This may work to convince some shallow thinkers, because on the surface it makes sense,
however, as with this whole forum, it falls apart under the slightest amount of examination using common sense, reason and logic.

That is precisely the point I was making when I said "IF it was all completely under wraps how do you think he finds out? and me?"

As to your phone calls... I would add letters and filing requests for FOIA documents... we found one document at LPI that talks about extra terrestrial bucket excavators... John called the guy listed on the paper and when he returned the call his first question was "What's your clearance level?"

The internet nowadays is filled with links to official documents that give leads and hints to all sorts of stuff most would consider 'secret' yet it is available to the public if you know where to look and what questions to ask... many such documents are available only in abstracts with keywords and you have to order the complete document... sometimes there is a fee... sometimes there is a question "Why do you want this..." and many times you just cannot get it...

Through my job back in Canada I was at Trenton AFB and have a photo of the Stealth fighter autographed by the pilot... this was two years before it was 'officially' released to the public. When I moved to Las Vegas I ran into this pilot at Nellis AFB, where he id currently an instructor on the fighter...

The point is while a lot of info is not 'secret' as such it is nevertheless not known by the general public...

I have heard 'skeptics' deride people that are not knowledgeable in these fields as being less than intelligent and even "feeding" people like us keeping the threads alive. Just because one of you may know something does not mean everyone does... They come here to find out...

I don't see hundreds of posts from these people... but I see page after page of supposed 'skeptics' that make claims about high positions yet seem to have unlimited time to post here... Makes one wonder about their 'day' jobs...

So who is 'feeding the thread'?



I do not doubt there are 'plants' here... don't know from who or from where but their MO is the same... ignore any serious info when many of them KNOW its true... and direct the thread away from such gems...

There are several here at ATS that I know personally what their day job is, and it would surprise many of you. I have promised these people not to reveal them and I will keep that word... If I didn't how long do you think my
contacts would stay with us? But you have no idea how hard it is to keep quiet on some issues until I have a second source for the info that I can post...

Our "cult members' have requested that I 'get on with it' LOL and looking at the recent flood of FOIA's that ATS is presenting... I shall do just that... before they 'scoop' me on everything
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay... here goes...

I have dropped hints of an anti matter drive... well that generated me two U2U's from 'concerned' people... I found that interesting... Also the fact that ATS posted a document on that subject in the FOIA papers...

But before I get into that... I want to update on something discussed before

In the Aristarchus presentation in the Ifrared Moon Images thread I showed a project from MIT that was called LDX
The Levitated Dipole eXperiment

Since we had traced (to our satisfaction) the fact that there is HE3 being liquified on the moon and transported back to LEO and stored at the secret space station (the thing that started this thread in the first place) we had to trace the rest of it... where is all this HE3 going?

That led to fusion research, as HE3 is a very efficient clean fusion fuel...

One of the projects we came across was the LDX. Naturally the word levitated added to the intrique..

Welcome to the Levitated Dipole eXperiment (LDX) web site. LDX is a novel experimental device designed to explore the physics of plasma confinement in a magnetic dipole field. What makes it unique? Besides levitating a 1/2 ton superconducting ring, we will conduct the first experimental test on the theory of plasma confinement by adiabatic compressibility. If this concept turns out to be correct, levitated dipoles may one day make an attractive magnetically confined fusion energy source. LDX is a collaboration between Columbia University's Dept. of Applied Physics and the MIT Plasma Science & Fusion Center and is funded by the Department of Energy's Office of Fusion Energy.

Fusion research has focused on the goal of a fusion power source that utilizes deuterium and tritium (D-T) because the reaction rate is relatively large compared with the rate for D-D or D-He3. Furthermore, the D-D cycle is difficult in a traditional fusion confinement device such as a tokamak because good energy confinement is accompanied by good particle confinement which leads to a build up of ash in the discharge.

Previous studies [1-4] indicate that a levitated dipole would be favorable for a D-He3 fuel cycle based power source.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Well here is the latest update...

Originally posted by NJ Mooch

The last item you posted should give you an idea of what they are up to. They mentioned that the massive neutron shielding isn't required with this newer design.

Design? Never mind Design... lets talk SUCCESSFULLY TESTED WORKING MODEL

The latest on the LDX project can be found on this page.

February 9, 2007: First levitation tests were sucessfully completed. The launcher was withdrawn about 2 cm and

the floating coil was levitated for approximately 40 minutes. The floating coil has 5 degrees of freedom for position and tilt. The real time digital control system utilizes an occulting position detection made up of 8 laser lines. The the coil position was maintained within 0.5 mm of the desired location.

On 11/8/2007 we completed our fourth experimental campaign with a levitated dipole and, for the first time, with all supports fully removed from the plasma. We gathered data covering a range of parameters, heating, and fueling conditions. First results will be presented at the Orlando APS meeting on 11/14/07.

psfcwww2.psfc.mit.edu...-experimental-49575

Levitated Dipole Experiment's floating magnet passes first test

CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--A major milestone was achieved in the construction of the world's first levitated dipole experiment. The high-field superconducting ring, which will be magnetically levitated for several hours in a large vacuum vessel, was successfully tested to a total ring current of 1.57 million amperes. Once levitated, the superconducting ring will confine an ionized hydrogen gas, or plasma, at an (electron) temperatures as high as one billion degrees.

The floating coil must be suspended several meters away from the walls of the vacuum vessel and from the external magnets that counter-balance the force of gravity. When this is achieved, the magnetic field of the experiment will resemble the fields of the magnetized planets, like Earth and Jupiter, that confine hot plasma within their magnetospheres.

The floating coil, tested July 20, was designed by the Fusion Technology and Engineering Division of MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center.

web.mit.edu...

Just for those who don't know Tokamak fusion devices were invented by the Russians in the 50's

The term Tokamak is a transliteration of the Russian word Токамак which itself is an acronym made from the Russian words: "тороидальная камера в магнитных катушках" (toroidal'naya kamera v magnitnykh katushkakh) — toroidal chamber in magnetic coils (Tochamac)). It was invented in the 1950s by Soviet physicists Igor Yevgenyevich

Wikipedia


[edit on 20-11-2007 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Z, my friend, how is your CSM orbit calculation going? If you need help, just whistle.