Questions For Christians!!

This is a serious question to those who believe in jesus.

After watching the da vinci code,(stop rolling your eyes and keep reading)i got to wondering about the family of jesus.some believe he did not have borthers and sisters,others believe that he did.(if so,there is an indirect blood line.)some believe he married mary magdalene,many have demonized her by falsely declaring her to be a prostitute.to them i say,if jesus could forgive her who the hell are you to condemn her!!

Anyways,my questions are,
if jesus had been just a mortal man,a great prophet and not the son of god,would that really effect your faith in him??
would your faith be destroyed if jesus did marry mary and have children??

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Edited all caps in title

[edit on 6/8/07 by masqua]

Yes. If Jesus were just a mortal man it would have the utmost effect on my beliefs. If Jesus were merely mortal and not the Son of God, I would have to question the validity of the entire Bible. But seeing as how I do not believe it, it's not an issue for me.

If he were to have married and had children, it would affect me but not as much as the above. I would have to know more about his marriage and children, and in the end I think I would resolve myself to the fact that it was God's will to have this happen.

That being said, I do not believe that Jesus was anything but the true Son of God and I do not believe that he was married nor have children on earth.

Jakyl,
There are many that believe Jesus had children and that his lineage will bring forth a messiah. (The Antichrist)

Notre Dame in France was said to have been built, not for Mary, Jesus' mother, but Mary Magdelene.

Get A Woman Rides The Beast, by Dave Hunt

There was no Jesus Christ, he never existed. No proof of his existence, historical or physical. He is a made up figure from stories that copy pre-existing figures in history that also call themselves sons of god or gods themselves. So this question is irrelevant. Well, thats how I feel about it anyway.

And before anyone else says it. THE BIBLE is in no way proof of the existence of the so called Jesus Christ. The bible is a work of plagerization copied from earlier sacred texts. Only thing different is a few name changes or using the same names and changing them a little (example: Buddahs virgin mother Maya instead of Mary and Horus virgin mother Meri instead of Mary)
ALSO, it is full of errors and contradictions. That alone should prove the bible is a false doctrine.




[edit on 6-8-2007 by tator3]

Originally posted by tator3
There was no Jesus Christ, he never existed. No proof of his existence, historical or physical. He is a made up figure from stories that copy pre-existing figures in history that also call themselves sons of god or gods themselves. So this question is irrelevant. Well, thats how I feel about it anyway.

Jesus Christ did exist, and this is a historical fact not based on the bible, but of record written by writers, philosophers, and historians who lived at or near the time Jesus lived. The greatest historian of Rome, Tacitus, wrote of his existence despite the fact that he was quite hostile towards christianity. While it might have been in his best interest to not write of Jesus in his historical record, he couldn't betray his craft in that way.

Don't assume that all the "evidence" exists in the bible. That's the last place you should look, whether you're trying to prove or disprove. There is roman historical record of Jesus' execution.

reply to tator3--the questions i have asked are to those who believe in jesus.i am not starting a does he or doesn't he exist thread!

reply to aimlessly--why would jesus being mortal effect you? the messages he gave and the prophesies he made would not change.it is well known that before the 1st council of nicea in 325a.d. most believers viewed jesus as being mortal.at that time,and for 100's of years before,emminent men and women were diefied.so it would not be strange for the same thing to have happened to jesus!

Originally posted by jakyll
if jesus had been just a mortal man,a great prophet and not the son of god,would that really effect your faith in him??

It would, without a doubt, affect my faith in him.

After all, Jesus claimed on several occasions that he was not mortal...that, in fact, he was God.

Think for a second about what you know regarding mortal people who claim that they are God. They are, with no other options, either incredibly evil and using their assertion to manipulate people (Jim Jones, David Koresh), or they are totally nuts (that guy on 2nd and Pike who will forgive you your sins if you give him a cigarette).

I don't think Jesus was evil or nuts.
I think he was God. And if, somehow, I found out that he wasn't, then he would just be a guy who duped a ton of people...me included...and I'd probably be a little resentful.

As revenge, I would become Free Methodist.

(That's called Presbyterian humor.)

would your faith be destroyed if jesus did marry mary and have children??

My faith would be tested. But I don't know why. I don't really have a good reason.

Let me clear something up before i get confused.....Jesus was mortal. he was born of woman to walk the earth as an example of living a moral and righteous life..... now, if he were just mortal, ie not the Son of God, then his teachings would be a great example of how to live your life...end of story.

Being the Son of God and having sacrificed himself on the cross for each and every one of us.......that is powerful. As the Son of God he can make a promise of eternal life and follow through. A mortal can not.

Therefore, if it were proven that Jesus was just a man, his promise of an eternal life in heaven with God would be empty.

I hope I am explaining my opinion clearly enough, the words just aren't coming to me today.....

Originally posted by The Cyfre

Jesus Christ did exist, and this is a historical fact not based on the bible, but of record written by writers, philosophers, and historians who lived at or near the time Jesus lived. The greatest historian of Rome, Tacitus, wrote of his existence despite the fact that he was quite hostile towards christianity. While it might have been in his best interest to not write of Jesus in his historical record, he couldn't betray his craft in that way.

Don't assume that all the "evidence" exists in the bible. That's the last place you should look, whether you're trying to prove or disprove. There is roman historical record of Jesus' execution.

Your WRONG. The writers, philosophers and historians you speak of did not live during the times of Jesus. These historians wrote of a "Christ" which means anointed one, not mentioning the name Jesus at all..in fact Krishna was before Christ and he was known as the Christ. There were 4 historians that speak of the "Christ" or "Christus" and it is only mentioned in passing. The 4th one, Josephus... well, his writings have been proven forgeries for centuries. But, like forgeries of the bible, christians still use it.

AS FAR AS A ROMAN RECORD OF HIS EXICUTION... please show me, I will give my millions to Jesus Churches and serve him the rest of my life. SHOW ME PLEASE.

[edit on 6-8-2007 by tator3]

Originally posted by tator3
The writers, philosophers and historians you speak of did not live during the times of Jesus.

You're speaking pretty confidently about "the times of Jesus" for someone who thinks he didn't exist.

Pliny the Younger, who wrote letters to the Roman Emperor Trajan in the 2nd century BC...which was probably within...what...60 or so years of Jesus's supposed execution?...he was writing about the problems he was having with Christians who refused to curse Christ.

Flavius Josephus wrote in pretty much the same time period.

Are you really saying that because these writings came a few decades after the supposed death of the supposed Christ that they are not REAL?

If that's to be our criteria then I think there's a LOT of historical figures that just became fiction.

These historians wrote of a "Christ" which means anointed one, not mentioning the name Jesus at all..in fact Krishna was before Christ and he was known as the Christ.

So you are seriously saying that Pliny the Younger was having a problem with the adamant followers of Krishna...in ROME...during this time period?

The 4th one, Josephus... well, his writings have been proven forgeries for centuries.

Forgeries in that they were obviously changed to give Jesus a suspiciously GLOWING review...not changed to confirm his existence. The Christian historian Origen (who was around shortly after Josephus) actually noted in the third century that "Josephus did not accept Jesus as Christ."

That's why it's considered a forgery.

LOOK...I was a Christian, I received the holy ghost and spoke in tongues. I had many experiences that would have me believe in Jesus. Yet thru research and discovery, and opening my eyes instead of being a mindless follower, I have seen the light so to speak.
It makes you so angry doesn't it? When you feel threatened about your faith. Test it... look at the other side. I was you, first in response to the nay sayers. Then one day I said "I have nothing to fear, I know Jesus is real" so I looked at the other side to prove them wrong...and guess what..THEY WERE RIGHT!
So why don't you get out of your comfort zone and look at the other side, or are you afraid you might just find out that what you believe is FALSE.

If there was a Jesus Christ and if he did have a sibling, then that would
make the Bible bogus. How can Mary be a virgin if she had 2 or more kids?

Originally posted by tator3
LOOK...I was a Christian,

You hijacked someone else's thread and took it off topic. The OP restated what the thread was about and not about. You ignored the OP and hijacked it again. You did all of this because people who believe make you angry. Your anger has what exactly to do with the topic of this thread? It's hard to have a civil conversation with this kind of nonsense going on, is it not?
______________________

On topic. The Identity of Jesus is critical to the Christian Faith. We are all incapable of living a sinless life. God sent his Son to live that life for us and by accepting Him we receive Salvation through His sacrifice for us. That is the basis of Christianity. Without the sacrifice by the Living Son of God our only hope would be through Works rather than Faith.

Alright then. Have a good day.

Originally posted by tator3
It makes you so angry doesn't it? When you feel threatened about your faith.

Nope.
I find it to be quite exhilarating actually.

I do want to be clear here, just so we're on the same page...NONE of the information you've referred to in this thread has challenged my faith. You know...just so we're talking about the same thing.

I was you, first in response to the nay sayers. Then one day I said "I have nothing to fear, I know Jesus is real" so I looked at the other side to prove them wrong...and guess what..THEY WERE RIGHT!

I was you first...I call it my "dark poetry phase."
It ended after sophomore year.

So why don't you get out of your comfort zone and look at the other side, or are you afraid you might just find out that what you believe is FALSE.

I find you to be a little presumptive about what I've looked at and haven't looked at.

I've looked into some pretty dark corners of my faith and what I've found is my business.

Although, with your detective prowess, I bet you can guess what I found, yes?

I downloaded and watched a movie called ZEITGEIST it is here.

Google Video Link

I was expecting it to be about 9/11 and things of that nature, but it goes into the roots of religion at the beginning which I think would interest some of you here.

What they say is most religion is a rip of each other in a way that it all goes thru astrology and such..

I would like you guys to at least watch the 1st 30 mins and get back and chat about this. I would be interested in knowing what you think.

if jesus had been just a mortal man,a great prophet and not the son of god,would that really effect your faith in him??

Not at all.

Some say everyone has a choosen path, most forget their path as they pass through the veil of forgetfullness, Jesus was one who fully knew what role he had to play.

The message was timely, and has supernaturally withstood the test of time.

Originally posted by jakyll
if jesus had been just a mortal man,a great prophet and not the son of god,would that really effect your faith in him??

Sure. I probably wouldn't even waste the time reading what the "man" had to say, if that's all HE IS.

He'd be no different than any other fallen man, born of women. What would be the point? Furthermore he'd be a fallen man, and a flat out liar. Then really I'd have to ask, what would be the point?

For one to consume everything a liar had to say some 2000 years ago and actually live their life by it, would be well, you can add that up.

Originally posted by jakyll
would your faith be destroyed if jesus did marry mary and have children??

This is rather kin to your first question. It doesn't really amount to a row of peas, because HE DIDN'T.

Interesting thing is this. Anyone who knows him, knows there is no sin in him and he cannot sin. Anyone who knows him knows, that he also has a bride. Adultery is sin.

The father choses the bride, not the son. Nobody can come to him unless the father draws him.

Originally posted by jakyll
Anyways,my questions are,
if jesus had been just a mortal man,a great prophet and not the son of god,would that really effect your faith in him??

Well to be very honest, IF Jesus had been a simple mortal man and simply a prophet then he would most probably NOT have appeared in the bible and we would probably not have the bible or perhaps any other religion based on Christ(ian) teachings. We would also not be posting in this thread and there would be a lot less people b!tching and moaning at him when something went wrong. So yes, it would not be logical to say my faith will not be affected.

BUT:

He WAS a mortal man when he was on earth. He was "Born of the Virgin Mary and was made man" - that from The Apostles Creed. He was every bit as mortal as you or I - he was just the Son of God.

EVEN a Jewish historian wrote about Jesus in the first century around 1.9.93 to 14.3.94. That's about 60 years after Jesus died.

Flavious Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 18:63-64, said; "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."

So he is recorded in Jewish writings too. There are no Roman records because all records were lost in a fire during the time of Nero.

Originally posted by jakyll
would your faith be destroyed if jesus did marry mary and have children??

Simply put, NO. Why should it? He was a man just like me and he would have had needs and desires. He was of human flesh and would have had human needs and desires. He STILL died for our sins whether he married or not. So Nope, not destroyed or even dented.

Hope that answered your questions

ok,this reply is to several comments that i don't have time to quote because i'm in work sorry!


it is possible that mary was a virgin before the birth of jesus,but not after.no doubt her and joseph consumated their marriage.

if jesus was god and he had children with mary magdalene,would we not have a lot of demi-gods making appearances in history??


if jesus was the son og god,why did he bleed,why did he die?? i ask because everything i know about all the different gods that exist,have existed,(depending on your beliefs.)agree totaly on one thing! gods do not bleed! gods cannot be killed by mortal man....if this is so i guess that could explain the ressurrection.it was just an act,a symbol.....


the bible should be taken with a pinch of salt.it is not a book wrote by jesus.it is a book wrote by many authors over many years,each who have their own agenda.i cannot believe in a book full of so many lies and contradictions.a book we know for a fact has been tampered with again and again over the centuries! don't forget,the gospels can't even agree on the life of jesus!


naming ppl from the modern world who have claimed to be god is not a good way to back up your faith.our understanding of life makes it hard for us to believe anyone who claims to be a god.but don't forget,there was an age of man when the gods walked among us,and they were not evil or nuts!!

if jesus was mortal,but a powerful prophet of god,then his sacrafice on the cross would still have effect would it not?? think about it.those in the time of jesus who followed him and believed he was mortal still had their lives changed forever by him.the effect was a profound one!!

for any catholics reading this jesus was a sinner! why? because he was born of a mortal woman,therefore he was born from original sin!
not that i believe in original sin and the 7 deadly sins.load of nonsence....but i'll save that for another thread....unless somebody asks


roman records of jesus do exist.so whoever mentioned money,get your cheque book out!