UK: Schoolgirl Goes to Court Over Chastity Ring

Is there a dire need for this girl to wear a chasity ring? Does her faith call for it? If not, then why is this a religious issue? Will she still be chaste without the ring, or must she make it known to others that she is chaste?

I think this is more of an issue of fashion over religion. If the girl were refused to wear a cross, then yes, it would be an anti-Christian ruling, but since they enforce this rule on everyone, no matter what type or ring they're wearing, what's engraved on the ring, or what faith they are, this is nothing but a girl getting angry that she can't wear something that makes her stand out.

Were you all as vociferous in your protests when we had the debate about the hijab being worn in school?

I don't recall many US posters banging on about 'freedom' then.

As others have said these are our rules and we're quite happy with them thanks.

Personally I'm quite happy to live in a country where religion plays a very minor part - one only has to look at the influence of religious fundamantalists in directing US foreign policy to see the evil and suffering that zealotry can create.

I'd choose healthy cynicism over bible-addled any day.

And as for these 'your country's more of a police state than ours' statements I think a dose of reality is needed - both countries have massive resources directed at snooping on their own populations.

The US is no more 'free' than the UK.

Pot - kettle?

As a teacher in the UK, I am probably more aware than most that young people will use any means possible to get away with wearing jewllery and the like that will make them stand out. Most of the time they will suggest religous reason just so they won't be questioned - kids have admitted this to me because they know I'm not management and don't really care as long as they're there.
But lets think about it for a moment...
Covering face - cant read facial expressions regarding learnign happening - formative assessment.
Wearing big crosses - flaunting christian beliefs
Chastity ring? So what? Come on - mostof the girls I teach wear earring the size of a planet's rings.

As long as they're there at school and you can see if they're learning and engaging I'm happy. The problem with most schools is they are run by narrow minded sycoophants who need to chil out and remember what they are there for in the first place -
to educate kids. END OF...

I apologise for my rubbish spelling - I'm tired. Sorry

[edit on 28-4-2007 by more_serotonin_pls]

Originally posted by DJMessiah


I think this is more of an issue of fashion over religion. If the girl were refused to wear a cross, then yes, it would be an anti-Christian ruling, but since they enforce this rule on everyone,

But there in lies the rub. They do not enforce the ban on every one. The article clearly stated that other cultures are allowed to wear bracelets.
And sorry if it disaponts you but it is not only muslims as I think you are presuming.




Kara Bracelets are from the Sikhism relgion in India in case you are not aware of it

[edit on 4/28/2007 by shots]

There is a major difference between a "chastity ring" and preoper religious symbols. The chastity ring orignated in the 1990's from the USA, not 1st century Palestine. It is not a requirement to wear one, nor is it a requirement to wear a cross.

It is, however, required by various religions that they should wear their symbols. From Jewish skull caps to Islamic Hijabs. There is no issue in the UK with Hijabs, it's Niqabs or Burkahs that are forbidden for good reason, but again, they are not a requirement in Islam, but rather a specific cultural item from certain groupings of Muslims from certain area's.. Islam only requires modesty, from both men and women. This can be achieved with a headscarfe. There is no need to wear a full facial covering Niqab or Burkha.

Thanks Stu

It's late and my mistake but you get the point I'm making - this 'outrage' is not about freedom as some would pretend, it's because it involves christian fundamenalist practices.

First off let me say that I am surprised that her school doesn’t allow jewelry. That in itself is sad. Young ladies loves to wear rings, bracelets, necklaces. I know almost every girl in my school did, that’s for sure.

It’s a stupid rule. However, it is a rule. So until it gets changed then she should go by it. Again, it’s a stupid rule.

Now, since she’s not allow to wear jewelry, and she thinks she need’s it, why did she just not put it in her pocket.

Folks, it's a ring, not an Ozzy Ozborne t-shirt. A bit too strict for me.

I have mixed emotions about the uniforms, but uniforms usually aren't a part of our school traditions. Traditions can be different in different parts of the world.

Troy

I love how this thread has panned out, it has given me LOL. In the few months that I have been on ATS it has been impossible not to notice some of the things that makes the UK so different from the US. I love it, but then I love difference.

Uniforms are important to who the British/UKers are. Look at the difference between US and UK armed forces. If you think the school system is strict you should see what happens when the NCO can't see his face in his squaddies toe caps!!!!

We were allowed to wear rings at my school but had to remove them for PE for Health and Safety, I had all five stolen (never to return *sob*) so I can perfectly understand the sense of a non-jewllery policy. Things have changed school are far more secure, but the fact remains that the girl should have taken the issue up with the school governors, then the LEA, etc etc. It is in my mind pathetic that people are too lazy to use the means that they have to bring about change. Instead they jump on the media to piggy-back whatever cause they are promoting however tenous the connection.

Certain sectors of the UK press will exaggerate and sensationalise anything to get the papers off the shelves - I won't name names, we all know who they are. The politicians involved, Lord Tebbit and Ann Widecombe, what can I say, the latter is a christian spinster so I should imagine this did appeal to her sensibilities, Tebbit well the less said the better. The majority of people in the UK will take this story with a pinch of salt. Those that support her, will either be kids her own age or those with a leaning towards white christian nationalism.

As someone points out earlier, the UK is a tribalistic nation, we compete with each other on so many levels and it is what shapes us as people. These are the aspects of my culture that I rejoice in. But this country has problems which I am only too well aware of. Our privacy is invaded but as others have pointed out this has nothing to do with a police state it has everything to do with stretched resources. It is general order that is a problem, our lives are not monitored, but CCTV is used to protect property and to help make a case should anyone be caught. It lowers insurance premiums etc. Those in town centres are for monitoring behaviour - don't misbehave (ie get p***ed and beat someone up or break some windows in a historic street as my neighbours son did) and currently you have nothing to worry about. Sure there are abuses and it is the responsibility of all to the be alert to this issue.

Originally posted by stumason
There is a major difference between a "chastity ring" and preoper religious symbols. The chastity ring orignated in the 1990's from the USA, not 1st century Palestine. It is not a requirement to wear one, nor is it a requirement to wear a cross.

stumason, you have said everything I wanted to say, from the police state to the reason we have school uniform.

My personal beef with school uniform, in particular secondary school, is that it’s not really appropriate. I have two sons, and the eldest comes back with mud on his blazer, or he has a growth spurt and his trousers don’t fit. It’s expensive and hard to keep clean. Blazers must be hand washed or dry cleaned and the school jumper is made out of a material that reminds me of those grey scratchy blankets from WW1 lol

Wearing jewlery is a health and safety issue, its also about possession and theft, where both those issues are dealt with easily when you have a jewlery ban.

I personally dont understand why this girl is going to court, shes not going to win! If this girl can wear a symbol of chasity then what is stopping a girl wearing a playboy ring?

Seen this thread around but not got to replying to it until now.....

Wow....some people will do anything to try and scream "police state" won't they?

Heres the deal. ATS has T&C that you agree to abide by or you get reprimanded and/or removed from the forum

This school has a no-jewellery policy. Its EXACTLY the same thing. Its down to the school governors and the headmaster to set the rules for their school, and if that relates to uniforms and no jewellery, thats their choice. This kind of thing has been happening for years.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by Strangerous
The US is no more 'free' than the UK.

Now that is where you are wrong. Ever heard of the first ammendment?

1. in Public schools we can wear almost anything we want provided we are within decency restrictions of course. In the UK they are forced to dress the way the schools say or so some are claiming.

2 Our Children with parents, permitting can wear jewerly in the UK according to what many are saying depending on school rules they can"t.

Two good example showing you are dead wrong. Now what was that you were saying about no more freedom then the UK?

Originally posted by shots

Two good example showing you are dead wrong. Now what was that you were saying about no more freedom then the UK?

LOL you're joking right?

Last time I checked, no uk child has ever been arrested for writing an essay, or expressing an opinion, or burning a flag..

the US more free that the UK? get real! In the UK kids get detention or extra homework for writing on a desk not arrested!..

And you say we're the police state??












[edit on 29-4-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Originally posted by shots
Now that is where you are wrong. Ever heard of the first ammendment?

Yes and have you ever heard about this thing called sectarian violence?
Rangers or celtic?
Let me tell you that people have been stabbed for wearing a rangers or celtic tops in my area....its easier to stop people wearing football tops than try and bann knifes.

1. in Public schools we can wear almost anything we want provided we are within decency restrictions of course. In the UK they are forced to dress the way the schools say or so some are claiming.

So if children are forced to wear uniform that makes us a police state?
Riiight, no offence mate but I think I'll let someone who has actually lived in the country tell me if it is a police state, not an arm chair american..

2 Our Children with parents, permitting can wear jewerly in the UK according to what many are saying depending on school rules they can"t.

Well if you dont like the rules then do go to the school, sorry but its a choice to go to that school and if you think thats police state material then go ahead and scream all you want...Its your right but its also the schools right to choose what people wear on THIER property..

I think uniform is a good idea in school, gives you valuable experience in responsibility.

Two good example showing you are dead wrong. Now what was that you were saying about no more freedom then the UK?

Your showing two reasons why we prefer to bring up our children with ideals other than sacrificing themselves for a flag or ignoring science? Wow yeah I can really see how that makes you the better country...Good luck with that..

Originally posted by shots
Now that is where you are wrong. Ever heard of the first ammendment?

1. in Public schools we can wear almost anything we want provided we are within decency restrictions of course. In the UK they are forced to dress the way the schools say or so some are claiming.

2 Our Children with parents, permitting can wear jewerly in the UK according to what many are saying depending on school rules they can"t.

Two good example showing you are dead wrong. Now what was that you were saying about no more freedom then the UK?

Thats the best you could do?



So, according to you, the above two reasons you have provided make America the "Land of the Free" and the UK a replica of George Orwell's "1984"..

Okey dokey then.....

I was hoping for something much less trivial from you shots.. I'll let you have another go and this time, come back with some actual evidence of this "Police State" you bang on about.



I swear you must have hot, sweaty dreams about goose stepping Neo-Fascists marching through Leicester Square.....

[edit on 29/4/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
Last time I checked, no uk child has ever been arrested for writing an essay, or expressing an opinion, or burning a flag..

I will give you the one about writing the essay however the other two are wrong.

The 2nd was not arrested for expressing an opinion he was arrested for "interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution," which is apparently illegal in Colorado.

Number three were not arrested for burning a flag they were arrested for Arson. Big differance.



[edit on 4/29/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Number three were not arrested for burning a flag they were arrested for Arson. Big differance.

And I'll concede you the flag burning... my bad.

still, the essay incident and the desk scribbling is bad enough isn't it? If anyone called the police over such an incident in the UK, they'd be told to stop wasting police time.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere


still, the essay incident and the desk scribbling is bad enough isn't it? If anyone called the police over such an incident in the UK, they'd be told to stop wasting police time.

But both were arrested for breaking a law. There in lies the difference. One broke a Colorado law for interfering with school officials the other was arrested for damaging public property.

As for the police telling them to stop wasting their time how about this Police target Graffiti artist

With the above being the case kind of looks like you do not even have to call the police

[edit on 4/29/2007 by shots]

But that's the thing you see.. In the UK we have some sense of proportion. Writing message on your school desk is a matter for school discipline. One might be able to argue that it constitutes criminal damage, but if that's the case, EVERY child in the UK should be arrested, since EVERY child has at some point or other written on a desk. It's practically a tradition.. leaving you mark for future generations. It's not considered illegal...it's considered naughty!

But we don't arrest them, because... well, we're NOT a police state! Police are called in as a last resort in the case of serious issues... assaults, theft, etc.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere


But we don't arrest them, because... well, we're NOT a police state!

You did not even read the link I posted did you? It clearly states the police arrested the kids who were spraying the graffitti.

Now what was that you said about not arresting them????