Patriot Act, has it affected you?

It have affected my life a lot (Kilowatt too).

There are military everywhere, in the streets, in the subway...

Originally posted by Garon
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Patriot Act is the begininng of far worse things. It's a skeleton key in my opinion. To not be worried about it is to be naive. This is a threat to our personal freedom and privacy.

I have to agree on this one.

If they arent going to USE the law why pass it in the first place?

Still no one has any proof of violations.
The transfer reports of large sums of money has been going on for decades. Remember banks are private busnisess backed by FDIC, FDIC would like to have in place a system of validation of large funds transfers. FDIC is a insurance agency, they like to reduce the risk of fraud. Banks can do alot of things you dont know, read the fine print of your privacy statement (that you agree to when getting a account).

Volume 3, No. 10
October 2000
The U.S. Suspicious Activity Reporting regulations issued by the Treasury Department�s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network require that "every bank" file with Treasury "a report of any suspicious transaction relevant to a possible violation of law or regulation." The SAR regulations define a "suspicious transaction" as any transaction involving $5,000 or more that is "conducted or attempted by, at, or through the bank... and the bank knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that"

Also, you use the "they could be" or "they might do this or that" defence, that is weak when not backed up. Remembe I said proof not speculation.

how will you get proof if you dont know that you've had your rights violated in the first place?

what if it's been done in secret without your knowledge?

Originally posted by mulberryblueshimmer
how will you get proof if you dont know that you've had your rights violated in the first place?

what if it's been done in secret without your knowledge?

Then has it happened?
Or do you think it has happened, and if you think that it has happend... What happend???

Originally posted by nyeff

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
The whole point of the 'Patriot Act' is to allow the government to "secretly" monitor you, never notify you and leave you no recourse should they continue.
The truth is that you have no idea if your being impacted by the 'Patriot Act'. IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY!

There is no friend anywhere - Lao Tse

If they secretly moniter you...and you never know about,whats the big deal? Does that some how affect your life or the way you live. Seems to me that the only people that need to worry about it are the people planning terrorist activities or other subversive manuvers. I have nothing to hide,why would this bother me.

Something that Americans seem to forget...you have a RIGHT to be subversive!!! Freedom can only be sustained from vigilantly watching and checking the powers of authority!! YOU have a right to think, write and express subversive ideas!!! This country was founded on dissent and allowing the government to spy on others cause you feel you're on the winning side is the worst cowardly act I can think of!
You're like the slaves that got to work in the house instead of the field. Patheticly agreeing with the policies of the slaveowner...
Strive against every form of tyranny over mankind or wrap yourself in chains and get out of the way of those really trying to be free.

Authority is an illusion in the mind of govenors - Lao Tse

A lot of people complain way outside of their general, relative environment and about issues that don't even affect them. if one cannot keep their eyes on the path, they may get lost in the wilderness. Sharing compassion or concern is great, but not if it hinders those a one is trying to help. Like recovered smokers that become self righteous about smoking.

P.S. Those who talk around others that are 'in-the-know' as to group attacks publicly of deaf-telepaths, consider that to hear the truth in the word is to not require 'ears' in the mind: Food for a, thought. heheh. The weak are those scared enough to attack another who in quiet solitude enjoys peace. Those who are not bewildered by these comments can hear this: Shut up out there in public, as you ARE afraid if you attack. Anger is a fear response.

The whole reason that people are up in arms about the "patriot act" is because technically they are not violating your rights anymore...they made it legal to do pretty much what ever they want in regards to your personal privacy.your privacy rights dont exist in that regard anymore..along with whatever else is in the patriot act says ..like being able to hold you without you going before a judge...no right to a trial ect,ect,ect...





[Edited on 11-22-2003 by sirCyco]

Some of the biggest problems with the PATRIOT Act include:

no accountability for the FBI

sneak & peek searches of people's homes and offices

easy FBI access to sensitive business records

the designation of political protesters as "terrorists"

surveillance of computer "trespassers" without a court order

secret investigations with no public information about how they are being conducted

monitoring of email and web surfing with limited judicial involvement

expansive "roving" wiretap authority

the FBI's ability to do an end-run around standard criminal procedures



[Edited on 11-22-2003 by sirCyco]

The one and most important civil liberty I do not want to lose is, being blown up by some moron with a bad attitude,who thinks my life is evil.

You're not alone. Many people are happier in a repressive police state than in a free society because security is more important to them than freedom.

How many Iraqis or citizens of the former Soviet Union have you heard saying things like, "Joe Stalin was a strong leader. We didn't have this crime under him," or "At least we were safe under Saddam."

Originally posted by sirCyco
Some of the biggest problems with the PATRIOT Act include:

no accountability for the FBI

sneak & peek searches of people's homes and offices

easy FBI access to sensitive business records

the designation of political protesters as "terrorists"

surveillance of computer "trespassers" without a court order

secret investigations with no public information about how they are being conducted

monitoring of email and web surfing with limited judicial involvement

expansive "roving" wiretap authority

the FBI's ability to do an end-run around standard criminal procedures



[Edited on 11-22-2003 by sirCyco]

Show text from the Patriot act to back up your information. Or is this speculation or a twist on the info??

Originally posted by LookingAround
Show text from the Patriot act to back up your information. Or is this speculation or a twist on the info??

*cough* *cough* fed *cough* *cough*

Originally posted by mulberryblueshimmer

Originally posted by LookingAround
Show text from the Patriot act to back up your information. Or is this speculation or a twist on the info??

*cough* *cough* fed *cough* *cough*

No not a "fed", just want proof of why everyones whining about the Patriot Act.

TITLE II--ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES

Sec. 201. Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications

Sec. 203. Authority to share criminal investigative information

Sec. 206. Roving surveillance authority under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

Sec. 210. Scope of subpoenas for records of electronic communications

Sec. 213. Authority for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant.

Sec. 215. Access to records and other items

Sec. 216. Modification of authorities relating to use of pen registers and trap and trace devices.

Sec. 217. Interception of computer trespasser communications.

Sec. 219. Single-jurisdiction search warrants

Sec. 221. Trade sanctions.

Sec. 225. Immunity for compliance with FISA wiretap

Originally posted by sirCyco
TITLE II--ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES

Sec. 201. Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications

Sec. 203. Authority to share criminal investigative information

Sec. 206. Roving surveillance authority under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

Sec. 210. Scope of subpoenas for records of electronic communications

Sec. 213. Authority for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant.

Sec. 215. Access to records and other items

Sec. 216. Modification of authorities relating to use of pen registers and trap and trace devices.

Sec. 217. Interception of computer trespasser communications.

Sec. 219. Single-jurisdiction search warrants

Sec. 221. Trade sanctions.

Sec. 225. Immunity for compliance with FISA wiretap

any .gov links????

According to Sec. 802, (a)(5)(B)(ii), "the term 'domestic terrorism' means activities that appear to be intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." Again: If the activity appears to be intended to influence the policy of a government - not just the United States government - by intimidation, it's domestic terrorism. Most important: Since all we require is intimidation, how would we define that?

"Intimidation" does not seem to be defined in H.R. 3162. We thus must turn to authoritative dictionaries, which say such things as "to make timid." Put it in the hands of a trial lawyer, and here's how it could play out: Have you ever felt intimidated by someone smarter, larger, older, wealthier, higher in rank, more attractive, more physically fit, more passionate, or more popular than yourself? That's all it takes to establish intimidation in court - being made timid. Get a jury or judge to buy your version of events, and you win.

So while intimidation is a weak criterion, far too easy to establish in a court of law, you don't even have to establish anyone's intent to intimidate, much less his success at intimidating someone. You, the prosecutor, have to establish only the appearance of the intention to intimidate any government, and you can try anyone for domestic terrorism.

Originally posted by mOjOm



www.infowars.com...
(Analysis in Common Terms with Links to Verify each using the Documented Legal Version of the Victory Act.)

www.cdt.org...
CDT's Printable PATRIOT Act Brochure: What's Wrong with the PATRIOT Act and How To Fix It

these links are very good..they have the exact legal version along with opinions of them

The government can essentially take anyone they want and imprison them for however long that they want, in secret. Let's say your neighbor, Mary Smith, is designated a terrorist (for attending an anti-war rally, for example).

Once taken, she has no way to let us know where she is and what's happened to her. And we have no way of finding out.

Therefore, it is inherently impossible to directly answer the question "How has the Patriot Act affected you personally?" Those affected personally have no way of communicating how its affected them, because they've been effectively 'disappeared'. And the rest of us have no idea where they've gone, so we can't say definitively that it was the result of the Patriot Act (Did she just pack up and leave one day? Was she kidnapped? Get a better job somewhere else? Commit suicide?).

The question cannot be answered by those directly affected.

So let's take a look at the indirect effects. I'm opposed to this 'pre-emtive war' strategy and I discover there's going to be a rally to peacefully voice opposition to it. However, I also hear that the FBI will be monitoring the event, and is planning on designating some of the protestors as terrorists using the Patriot Act. As a result, fearing that I will be branded such (although I have no terrorist intents), I decide not to go.

In that sense, I have been affected by the Patriot Act, albeit indirectly. And so have many others.

But nobody who has been directly affected by the Patriot Act can respond to this question. Or any others, for that matter...

And that's precisely what's wrong with it.

any .gov links? of the actual policy/law?

why dont you just look for yourself?? its not that hard to use google!