Patriot Act, has it affected you?

Keep in mind, I think the Patriot Act is a necessary evil, but still an evil that has to be watched very closely or else it will clobberate the citizenry.
This could very well be the beginning of that happening:

www.foxnews.com...

Who was it that wanted evidence of it being abused? This is the second case that I can remember in the last few months.

Yes.. after reading as much of the whole "act" as I could..[its very long]...there were many parts that I do not have a problem with.....but the there are to many sections open to obvious abuses....I sure wish the public voted on these type of things..I would gladly review these documents so I could make an educated decision on it and cast my vote...government by the people my ass

It effects everyone indirectly. Jefferson was a wise man. Do you suppose he'd be burning flags today?

"The people of every country are the only safe guardians of their own rights, and are the only instruments which can be used for their destruction. And certainly they would never consent to be so used were they not deceived. To avoid this they should be instructed to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson

"It would seem impossible that an intelligent people with the faculty of reading and right of thinking should continue much longer to slumber under the pupilage of an interested aristocracy of priests and lawyers, persuading them to distrust themselves and to let them think for them... Awaken them from this voluntary degradation of mind! Restore them to a due estimate of themselves and their fellow citizens, and a just abhorrence of the falsehoods and artifices which have seduced them!" --Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

"When the government fears the People, that is Liberty.
When the People fear the government, that is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits." -Thomas Jefferson

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thomas Jefferson

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -Thomas Jefferson

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson



[Edited on 11-23-2003 by Satyr]

Thomas Jefferson knew what he was talking about..I have much respect for him.



[Edited on 11-23-2003 by sirCyco]

I would have loved the man. He warned us about everything that's happening today. Too bad no one listened.

I believe we have people like him around today...but I dont think they will make it to the white house anytime soon unfortunantly...

Those in the White House aren't even of the same breed as Jefferson. It's sad. Looking back, you wouldn't even recognize America by it's government. It's become nothing but a charade, IMO.

He's right though. No one ever gave up their rights, unless they were tricked into believing it's for their own good. Once taken, your rights will not be returned without a civil war.

[Edited on 11-23-2003 by Satyr]

This may need a whole thread to itslef but......does a civil war included the people vs. the federal gov. because i think its gonna be a revolution type war rather than two different sets of citizens fighting each other...i think this needs its own thread .....civil war or revolution in the u.s.

Even better, forget the Patriot Act, check this out:

Congress approved a bill on Friday that expands the reach of the Patriot Act, reduces oversight of the FBI and intelligence agencies and, according to critics, shifts the balance of power away from the legislature and the courts.

Full article Here

Soon they will require us to let them know when we wake up, go to the bathroom, and brush our teeth.

Originally posted by sirCyco
This may need a whole thread to itslef but......does a civil war included the people vs. the federal gov. because i think its gonna be a revolution type war rather than two different sets of citizens fighting each other...i think this needs its own thread .....civil war or revolution in the u.s.

Yeah, you're right. I guess it'll be more of a revolution. I should've added that in. I was thinking, civilians = civil war. But you're correct, civilians vs. gov't = revolution. Frankly, I hope it happens while I'm young enough to fight.

[Edited on 11-24-2003 by Satyr]

You people are about half nuts, kissing Tom's butt in reference to this thread, but slapping him in the face in other threads with mamsy-pamsy feel-good "moderate" beliefs.
Thomas Jefferson and his ilk would have cleaned the freakin' house a loooong time ago. Alot of the things you stand for would not have been tolerated for a minute. Alot of the stupid things we have tolerated for decades wouldn't have been taken lightly! For starters, how about the destructive centralized banking, the Federal Reserve with its Reserve Notes (War Script used because we are under Martial Rule) and the socialistic judicial activism that goes against the grain of what the Founding Fathers sacrificed all to protect future generation from?

I know I sound like a jerk-face right now, but lookit, this is a wrafooting situation, and a muddy footing at that. Where have we been during clear peacetime settings while the country has been slowly taken away from us? That is the bigger issue to me.

Can we soldier out from underneath the Patriot Act after the war is declared over is my biggest question and greatest fear. Controlling the Beast that has been set loose when it is needed is only part of the question, the other part is will be strong and resolute enough to put it back in the cage after the job is done is the really important question, and will we recognize the end of this vague and difficult war.

I seriously doubt Tom would have put up with this nation being allowed to be a viable target to begin with.

but slapping him in the face in other threads with mamsy-pamsy feel-good "moderate" beliefs.

what exactly are you talking about?? no there are more than a couple things that i dont like about thomas jefferson..but that was a different time..there are obvious ones but no need to go there..

No need to go where?
Different times? Well, heck yeah, those were different times. Why? Are humans different? Nope, we are still the same; only worse. As I've said many times before and will surely say many times more, as long as they do not mess with our 401(k)'s or our cable TV, they can do anything they want and we'll allow it.

Well mainly I was talking about his slave ownership among a few other things that are not exactly what I would call great human achivements but I resent
what you said because basicly you called me a hypocrite which I am not....

Hey guys, check out this site. It has a lot of good information regarding the patriot act:

www.aclu.org...

An hypocrite? You took what I said as a direct attack? Interesting, as I was not talking directly to you, but an open statement against a good percentage of Americans.

What do you stand for that caused you to think I was speaking directly to you?

You people are about half nuts, kissing Tom's butt in reference to this thread, but slapping him in the face in other threads with mamsy-pamsy feel-good "moderate" beliefs.

I only saw 2 people talking about jefferson....and i was one of them...

I hear people reference Tom all the time, and half of the time they have gotten no closer to understanding him or any other Founding Father than reading some quotes from the internet, presented by some website that has a political axe to grind rather than a presentation of historical fact.

I'll ask again, is there something in your belief system that makes you believe I was referring to you, something that is not IAW the intentions of the Founding Fathers, AKA Evil White Dead Men?

I'll ask again, is there something in your belief system that makes you believe I was referring to you

no, thats why i resented the statement,if you were not dierecting your statement towards me you did not make that very clear the way you worded your statement.

edit:maybe something like--"most people are half nuts" instead of saying "you people".....but hey i dont realy care all that much..

[Edited on 11-24-2003 by sirCyco]

I have made it clear since then. Still, I say keep an eye on the dog that barks the loudest. I'm going to have to take the time to read your earlier posts to see what you are really saying.
I'll be watching you.