If Being Gay is alright in the eyes of God then.....

Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem

Originally posted by Salem

So tell me in how do the affirmation and acceptation of homosexuality hurt you ? I just can't understand, as an heterosexual, why should I apparently against gay rights ?

the whole fact of government regulating the act of marriage is hurtful.

Gay rights! Ha! They are equal now. They just want us to give them special treatment. I am all for EQUALITY, but special rights and protections is totally wrong. (like so-called, "hate crimes")

I don't see in how they have special protection or rights, the only things I see is that every one is bashing them and persecuting them.

[Edited on 16-12-2003 by Salem]

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame
My point is that even if your not Christian your not allowed to marrie because of christians(Or other religions) morals.

Homosexuals want to be able to marry to be granted the rights of marriage.

joint parenting; joint adoption; joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents); status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent; joint insurance policies for home, auto and health; dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support; immigration and residency for partners from other countries; inheritance automatically in the absence of a will; joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment; inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate); benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare; spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home; veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns; joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children; bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child; decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her; crime victims' recovery benefits; loss of consortium tort benefits; domestic violence protection orders; judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;

Homosexuals Want to be rewarded with rights for their misbehavior. I could really care less if they got all of the above but they do not need to ever have the right to adopt children. They can pervert marriage but they should not be allowed to pervert family.

[Edited on 16-12-2003 by BlackJackal]

Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem

Originally posted by Salem

So tell me in how do the affirmation and acceptation of homosexuality hurt you ? I just can't understand, as an heterosexual, why should I apparently against gay rights ?

the whole fact of government regulating the act of marriage is hurtful.

Gay rights! Ha! They are equal now. They just want us to give them special treatment. I am all for EQUALITY, but special rights and protections is totally wrong. (like so-called, "hate crimes")

Its not the goverment regulating, its peopel regulating.
And if a very large group of peopel want to get their rights to be equal to that of the rest of the nation then they can do it. Its something called democracy.

Originally posted by BlackJackal

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame
My point is that even if your not Christian your not allowed to marrie because of christians(Or other religions) morals.

Homosexuals want to be able to marry to be granted the rights of marriage.

joint parenting; joint adoption; joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents); status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent; joint insurance policies for home, auto and health; dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support; immigration and residency for partners from other countries; inheritance automatically in the absence of a will; joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment; inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate); benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare; spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home; veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns; joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children; bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child; decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her; crime victims' recovery benefits; loss of consortium tort benefits; domestic violence protection orders; judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;

It's not the church that grants these things but the governement, why do the christians feel that way ? That's just because they are loosing their grips.

Originally posted by BlackJackal

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame
My point is that even if your not Christian your not allowed to marrie because of christians(Or other religions) morals.

Homosexuals want to be able to marry to be granted the rights of marriage.

joint parenting; joint adoption; joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents); status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent; joint insurance policies for home, auto and health; dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support; immigration and residency for partners from other countries; inheritance automatically in the absence of a will; joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment; inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate); benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare; spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home; veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns; joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children; bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child; decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her; crime victims' recovery benefits; loss of consortium tort benefits; domestic violence protection orders; judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;

This is true and I don't agree with allot of it but they should be able to marrie. NOT HAVE KIDS OR ALL THE RIGHTS THAT COME WITH THAT. You kant raise a kid like that.

Homosexuals Want to be rewarded with rights for their misbehavior. I could really care less if they got all of the above but they do not need to ever have the right to adopt children. They can pervert marriage but they should not be allowed to pervert family.

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame

Its not the goverment regulating, its peopel regulating.
And if a very large group of peopel want to get their rights to be equal to that of the rest of the nation then they can do it. Its something called democracy.

exactly why the founder of usA make it a Republic!

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame

...You kant raise a kid like that.

They can't, naturally, concive children. So it is, unnatural.

I agree.

I agree, to raise a kid you need a father and a mother.

Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame

...You kant raise a kid like that.

They can't, naturally, concive children. So it is, unnatural.

I agree.

I ment adoption ofcourse and yes it is unatural.

There are gay people who would make decent parents; but, does anyone actually consider how it affects the child? We all know how mean kids can be. The genuine welfare of the child should take precedence.

Selfishness = Sin

There are also a lott of kids with only one parent, thats also not really natural, because we need two to make a kid..so because this is not natural this kid can not be brought up by this one parent ??? the thing is this is not whats natural but indeed whats good for the kid and i think that a kid raised by gay parents is just as fine as one raised by straight parents..maybe gayparents is even better then a single parent since they can also learn from gay parents how to love another person..wich is i think the biggest reason for 2 parent families..like in nature there are lot of single parents, i know and its natural, but we are humans and the best for a kid is i think more parents then just one, and i believe iam not the only one thinking like this..
But the actual topic was, if being gay blah blah...then....after reading i still never found out the then..what then ???? pz, joz

Problem: Gay Marriages not allowed by Government
Solution: Who Cares!!! Marriage is between People. Usually just 2 of them and that's it. Marriage is a Union of atleast 2 individuals who pledge their Love, Devotion, etc. for one another. It's a partnership and commitment between people. So why care about what any Government, Group, Organization, or anyone else for that matter including other individuals think about it?? The decision has nothing to do with anyone other than those who choose to be married. Nor does anyone else have anything to do with the boundaries, pledges, rules, or whatever that the marriage is based upon. Simply stated: YOU DON'T REQUIRE THEIR PERMISSION OR BLESSINGS SO WHY BOTHER ASKING FOR IT!!

Problem 2 Gay Marriage not allowed by Church or Religious Order or God.
Solution As far as the Church or Religious Order go, see Solution above that deals with Government.
As for God not allowing it. That is between those who are wanting to Marry each other and God only. If God doesn't like it or won't allow it then let God and God only say so to the couple. Otherwise, proceed as planned. Simply stated: A CHURCH OR PRIEST AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE DO NOT SPEAK FOR GOD OR HOLD IN THEM THE AUTHORITY OF GOD. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW GOD'S THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER, LOOK TO GOD FOR THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

Problem 3-Dealing with This Topic's Main Question about God's Wrath on S&G.
AnswerUsing the scriptures that deal with this subject it seems pretty clear that God destroyed S&G because the people who were there were a bunch of Selfish, Degenerate, Abusive, Destructive, Egotistical, Arrogant, Selfcentered, Ruthless S.O.B's who lacked any Compassion, Acceptance, Tolerance, Understanding, Sympathy, Empathy, Kindness, Charity, Good Will, or Simple Respect toward others both physically, mentally and emotionally. Simply Stated: It was a Humanity's version of Big Foul "People" Toilet that needed to be flushed, plunged and disinfected, so God cleaned house.

did u know that in the netherlands gay people can marry mojom ??? yess they can...and iam proud that iam from there...which doesnt mean that in the netherlands nobody believes in god..come on, religion should be taken less serious, ok to believe but dont build a country on it or to say it better, dont make others suffer from your believes..like i always say "]

I can't change the mindset of every wack job religious zealot that starts posting ther godspeak mumbo jumbo here. I can't defend every harsh judgement from these people. I can't be responsible for people like black jackal who are so filled with self-loathing they can't live a normal happy life. It is not my job and I won't do it. If you want to hate me. Than hate me. Just keep it to yourself. I live my life. Thats all I can do. I know the truth. I know this isn't a choice. BlackJackal knows it isn't a choice. Hiding from what you are won't change who you are. Once this world realizes hatred and ignorance lead to nothing it will be a much better place. I do not believe in hell. So any curses and damnation and bible this and jesus that are meaningless to me. Keep it to yourself. It's just sad that a religion that talks so much about peace and love and forgiveness is so full of hate.

Originally posted by Garon
I can't change the mindset of every wack job religious zealot that starts posting ther godspeak mumbo jumbo here. I can't defend every harsh judgement from these people. I can't be responsible for people like black jackal who are so filled with self-loathing they can't live a normal happy life. It is not my job and I won't do it. If you want to hate me. Than hate me. Just keep it to yourself. I live my life. Thats all I can do. I know the truth. I know this isn't a choice. BlackJackal knows it isn't a choice. Hiding from what you are won't change who you are. Once this world realizes hatred and ignorance lead to nothing it will be a much better place. I do not believe in hell. So any curses and damnation and bible this and jesus that are meaningless to me. Keep it to yourself. It's just sad that a religion that talks so much about peace and love and forgiveness is so full of hate.

There's nothing wrong with people believing in God.

Garon, do you have any idea how angry you sound? No offense. Just an observation.

You're exactly right. There is nothing wrong with believing in God. But using that belief to spread hatred is wrong. You're damn right I am angry. Look at this thread? It's disgusting the people that come out of the woodwork to put there bigot two cents in. I just get frustrated when I see some of the things people say about other HUMAN BEINGS. So yes I am angry. I have a right to be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying religion is bad or believing in God or Allah or Buddha or Shiva or whatever is bad. It's Bad when you use that beliefe to further an agenda of hate.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
To answer the original question... According to the Bible..

According to the old testament, scriptures clearly state that homosexuality is "an abomination to the Lord." It is described as unnatural. Not what He intended.

Interestingly, in the new testament, Jesus of all people never mentions it. If you study the Apostle Paul - who was chosen to break down the teachings and applications to the fledging church - according to the new covenant - it becomes clear that ANYONE engaging in sex OUTSIDE of marriage is engaging in sin.

Personally, I do not think God hates homosexuals expressly. I think He hates sin wherever sin is found. And all humans sin, according to the word of God. Homosexuals who choose celibacy as a matter of obedience to God are as pleasing to God as any heterosexual.

I love what my mother always says: Love the sinner, hate the sin. And God knows, we all fall short.

Garon,

I posted this in answer to the original question. It is an interpretation of the scriptures. I hope you don't think that I am trying to shove anything down your throat. It was merely in answer to question, as I said before.

This is not what I say - it's what the bible says. It's up to every individual to believe what they want to believe. I hope it helps somebody to understand - the Christian perspective. I cannot speak for any other religion.

Originally posted by Garon
I can't change the mindset of every wack job religious zealot that starts posting ther godspeak mumbo jumbo here. I can't defend every harsh judgement from these people. I can't be responsible for people like black jackal who are so filled with self-loathing they can't live a normal happy life. It is not my job and I won't do it. If you want to hate me. Than hate me. Just keep it to yourself. I live my life. Thats all I can do. I know the truth. I know this isn't a choice. BlackJackal knows it isn't a choice. Hiding from what you are won't change who you are. Once this world realizes hatred and ignorance lead to nothing it will be a much better place. I do not believe in hell. So any curses and damnation and bible this and jesus that are meaningless to me. Keep it to yourself. It's just sad that a religion that talks so much about peace and love and forgiveness is so full of hate.

All I have to say is you have the desire same as me and we both made a choice. You went one way and I went the other. Don't tell me that you as a human being are not able to make a choice on how you act.

I am sick and tired of hearing all these people whine and complain about not being able to do anything about being gay when its just a simple choice.

To Act or not To Act.

Garon I am sincerely sorry you think I hate you. I do not hate anyone I simply think people who are gay should own up to making the decision on their own and quit blaming nature, God, Society, etc.

Originally posted by jozuph
did u know that in the netherlands gay people can marry mojom ??? yess they can...and iam proud that iam from there...which doesnt mean that in the netherlands nobody believes in god..come on, religion should be taken less serious, ok to believe but dont build a country on it or to say it better, dont make others suffer from your believes..like i always say "]

Huh????? Suffer from MY beliefs???? I'm not against Gay Marriage or anything else they want to do. Maybe you should read my post again a little slower. I support the choice of EVERYBODY to live as they want, as long as it doesn't conflict with anyone else's Choice in Living.

I think it's great that in the Neatherlands Gays can Marry without any Hassle from Gov. or Churches. Obviously the Neatherlands understands the meaning of "Equal Rights and Pursuit of Life Liberty and Happiness". It should be the same here IMO, and the fact that it isn't sucks big time since America once stood for Freedom, or so I'm told. My post wasn't about oppressing anyone. It's about reminding people, Gay or otherwise, that Governments and Churches DO NOT and SHOULD NOT be of any concern when it comes to things like Marriage or Lifestyle choices. I thought I made that clear......I urge you to read it again and hope you understand the difference.