Why not treat captured terrorists the way they treat their captives?

Originally posted by 5Lostboy5

There has been reports that U.S. has been using other COUNTRIES ??? Are you kidding me //// You gotta be kidding me right ??? Please tell me you are just kidding ... Please ... You think if we were using another country you would have ever HEARD of it ???? You really think so huh /// WOW ... Look at WATERGATE ..... It happened here ....

do you ever watch the news?
because they were reporting this for a couple of weeks
do a search on google for bbc news articles you will see

lostboy aint gonna last long here.

anyway.....if we sink down to their level, then they (the terrorists) have won, because they will have succeeded in making us everything that their propoganda is trying to paint us as now. the israelis tried the "eye for and eye" tactic for years.... all it did was add fuel to the fire.

and those of you playing the he said, she said, that they read on the internet game in regards to US torture should really re-examine your sources. a few bad apples dont make a policy, and if you think that standing for hours on end and depriving prisoners of sleep is torture, then you'd better start arresting marine drill instructors.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
Hardly a week goes by when another news report comes on the television reporting yet another kidnapping of Westerners by terrorists. The captives are always, it seems, subjected to beatings, threats and, too often, beheadings.

Well then why did the English hostages in Israel say they where treated fine last week? Or the German in Iraq who now where a hijab? You have some nerve complaining about how they treat hostages, at least there isnt pictures of US captives being forced into gay sex, or attacked with dogs while there naked.

I cant believe the damm hypocrisy the average american seems to have, how is it all those abuse scandals have suddenly left your mind long enough for you to whine about how your hostages are treated?

Originally posted by HiddenReality

Well then why did the English hostages in Israel say they where treated fine last week? Or the German in Iraq who now where a hijab? You have some nerve complaining about how they treat hostages, at least there isnt pictures of US captives being forced into gay sex, or attacked with dogs while there naked.

I cant believe the damm hypocrisy the average american seems to have, how is it all those abuse scandals have suddenly left your mind long enough for you to whine about how your hostages are treated?

Al Qaeda in Iraq Beheads Badr Brigades Member

Throat Cut of Russian Soldier

Al Qaeda in Iraq says it killed Algerian envoys - Ambassador Hostage Video

Al Qaeda in Iraq Says it Killed Egypt Ambassador - Hostage Video Released

Two Beheaded in Iraq by Ansar Al Sunnay Army

Zarqawi's Group, al Qaeda in Iraq, Beheads Iraqi National Guard on Video

Ansar Al Sunnah Executes 3 Iraqi Drivers

Iraqi Translator Executed By Ansar Al Sunnah Army (Execution Video)

Iraqi Worker Beheaded on the Streets

Rebels 'Behead Westerner' In Mosul Ambush (News Story)

as i stated above, a few bad apples who are being dealt with dont make US policy. there just is no comparison between giving prisoners 3 square meals a day and their own personal copy of the quran, and what these animals do to their prisoners in the links above. and you call us hypocrits?

Originally posted by snafu7700



as i stated above, a few bad apples who are being dealt with dont make US policy. there just is no comparison between giving prisoners 3 square meals a day and their own personal copy of the quran, and what these animals do to their prisoners in the links above. and you call us hypocrits?

How sure are you all that news is true? Given that the US has payed reporters around the world to print anti Iraq resistance news? Or the fact that most none embedded reporters get "accidently" killed by the US. Doesnt the US execute many people each year? Didnt we not long ago see a video of a marine executing a injured iraqi? Yes Americans are damm hypocrites, not because your actions are any worse, but because you whine when bad things happen to you like your country has never did something similar.

Originally posted by HiddenReality

How sure are you all that news is true? Given that the US has payed reporters around the world to print anti Iraq resistance news?

i take all news with a grain of salt. but if you actually look at the links i've provided, you'll find video taken by the insurgents most of which was originally aired on al-jazeera.

Or the fact that most none embedded reporters get "accidently" killed by the US.

care to back that claim up with some sources?

Doesnt the US execute many people each year?

yes, we execute criminals convicted of capital crimes, just as many other nations do around the world.

Didnt we not long ago see a video of a marine executing a injured iraqi?

again, you need to post some kind of a source to back up your claims. but if its the incident i'm thinking of, the individual in question had just watched several of his buddies get killed by insurgents "faking dead," and did what he thought was necessary to protect himself and others.

Yes Americans are damm hypocrites, not because your actions are any worse, but because you whine when bad things happen to you like your country has never did something similar.

you sure do make alot of accusations without backing up a single word with any kind of proof. furthermore, your juvenile name calling shows an extreme lack of maturity and therefore underminds anything of substance you might actually have to offer.

Originally posted by C0le
This moral high ground crap is a bunch of BS, We wont become the Enemy we are fighting for several reasons.

The Enemy We are fighting shows no predjudice of who they Murder, Women, Children, Innocents, It doesnt matter to them.

The difference between Us and them is When/If We torture, We are punishing Murders and Terrorists, Not innocent people.

The only way We would ever become like them is if We intentionaly harmed innocents.


Why do you think these people continue to fight, They dont fear Us.


As far as beheadings are concerned, No I dont want some random U.S Servicemen to saw off a Terroists head with his knife (that would harm that Serviceman more then it ever would the Terrorist), But public beheadings via a guillotine might start sending a message.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by C0le]

To them, we are not innocent. You have to try and put yourself in their shoes before you can judge their actions. Also, fear is the root of all evil, so there's no doubt the terrorists fear us. That is why they hate us; they are afraid that we will outnumber their religious crusaders and bring end to their world. That is why they continue to fight.

Originally posted by bodrul
the US does

there have been claims that the US has been using countries that dont have laws against torture to extrat information from people.

The US doesnt.
And there are claims they dont.



PS, can anyone here give me an impartial news source to ANY of the claims on this thread?
If so I would be VERY impressed..

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

devilwasp

PS, can anyone here give me an impartial news source to ANY of the claims on this thread?

There is and never have been such a creature as an impartial news source / news reporter etc. The only thing that anyone can do to try and piece together the whole picture is to take in information from as many sources as possible. Sift through it for the nuggets of truth. Then form your own opinion.
CNN, FoxNEWs, BBC, Al-Jazeer et al all have their own open as well as hidden agendas and it is best to keep that in mind when hunting for the truth.

SOME OF YOU GUYS KILL ME... You honestly believe the propaganda of America. The hard cold facts is that America is just like any other country that wants the keep the minority rich white established people in power. By money, power, and mostly killing. Lots and lots of killing. We have a death penalty; we kill innocents by dropping bombs in cities in other countries. Bullets truly don’t have any names. We you come out and say everyone you killed in a neighborhood in Iraq were insurgence that is complete BS.

America killed the most people in the world the quickest by dropping an atom bomb on a city! Were their children there? Were there women there? Well how about this were their innocents there?
America’s efficiency in killing is as brutal and sometime more than the “terrorist”. The difference is some of you people want to excuse their actions as state sponsored activities. It does not matter if an individual did it or a state torture is torture. Sheeez some of you think its torture not to get your latte in a reasonable amount of time.

I remember another group of people that thought they could take over world politics by superior technology and military tactics. That is all well until they decided to mess with a bigger poorer group of people that decided they had enough and ran them back to their bunker. Do you really want to put the rest of us in danger because of your delusional dream of being the world’s policemen? If things at home as good as you want to believe then I could understand but America is screwed up when dealing with its own citizenry.

The “terrorist” at least lets you know that they have kidnapped someone. America says it does not even have to tell anyone squat it can just snatch you and no one hears from you for over three years!


And for those who want to fight fire with fire when the world calls you the same name of the beast that you are fighting don’t be mad just accept it and go on but I tell you this I own part of this American dream and do not do it in my name!

And if you remeber when they went to get saddam's sons they killed them all including the grandchildren, their nurse and anyone who was in the house. That sounds more like vengance than justice. The funny thing is vengance for what? Did Saddam do anything directly to America beside being in OPEC?
Because if we are going to talk about internal country activites America should have been invaded a long time ago.




[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
There is and never have been such a creature as an impartial news source / news reporter etc. The only thing that anyone can do to try and piece together the whole picture is to take in information from as many sources as possible. Sift through it for the nuggets of truth. Then form your own opinion.
CNN, FoxNEWs, BBC, Al-Jazeer et al all have their own open as well as hidden agendas and it is best to keep that in mind when hunting for the truth.

THANK YOU!
Now someone go get this man/woman a cigar, congrats to you my man/woman for pointing that out....saved me the effort.

You have voted kenshiro2012 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant


Ironically, when the US arrests prisoners -- terrorists -- the US is the one who uses inhumane torture practices. We are always, it seems, violating our own standards of humane treatment. Perhaps it is time to treat our prisoners in the same manner that the terrorist treat their prisoners? Perhaps our standards are inhumane by their "standards". Maybe it is too much for them to endure humiliation and non lethal treatment? Would they really object if we simply beat and beheaded captured terrorists?

[edit on 12/6/2005 by benevolent tyrant]

Should of the state of Wisconsin appointed law enforcement individuals to eat Jeffrey Dahmer? Somewhere you have to draw a line in the sand. I guess it depends upon your own personal morality, where that line is.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by curme]

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by bodrul
the US does

there have been claims that the US has been using countries that dont have laws against torture to extrat information from people.

The US doesnt.
And there are claims they dont.



PS, can anyone here give me an impartial news source to ANY of the claims on this thread?
If so I would be VERY impressed..

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

BBC
The treatment of prisoners in these places - including Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and Abu Ghraib in Iraq - has come in for intense scrutiny and evidence of human rights violations has been widely reported.

But less well-documented is the process by which terror suspects are sent by the United States for interrogation by security officials in other countries.

This is known as "rendition" and is becoming increasingly controversial because many of these countries - including Syria and Egypt - are accused of using torture on prisoners, not least by the US State Department.

BBC
CIA prisoners 'tortured' in Arab jails
A former CIA official has confirmed suspicions that dozens of terror suspects have been flown to jails in Middle Eastern countries where torture is routinely practised, and without reference to courts of law.
Michael Scheuer, who once headed the hunt for Osama Bin Laden and left the CIA last November after a 22-year career, said the practice, known as "extraordinary rendition", was seen by the US as a key tactic in its war on terror.

"The bottom line is getting anyone off the streets who is involved in acts of terrorism is a worthwhile activity," he told the BBC's File On 4 programme.

Mr Scheuer said the operation was authorised at the highest levels of the CIA and the White House and was approved by their lawyers.


"The practice of capturing people and taking them to second or third countries arose because the Executive assigned the job of dismantling terrorist cells to the CIA.

search google for other articles

Originally posted by BlackThought
SOME OF YOU GUYS KILL ME... You honestly believe the propaganda of America.

no, i believe my own research, which includes news sources from all over the world. i figure somewhere between the american, european, and middle eastern medias the truth is to be found. maybe you should try broadening your horizens a little and doing your own research, instead of just towing the party line.

America killed the most people in the world the quickest by dropping an atom bomb on a city! Were their children there? Were there women there? Well how about this were their innocents there?

my friend, you must be pretty sore right about now, because it seems to me that you have just taken a dive from the top of the ignorance tree and hit every branch on the way down. everyone is entitled to their opinion here. that's the beauty of this site. but if you are going to continue to put forth your opinion as fact without anything to back it up, i'm going to call you on your ignorance every single time.

a little history to try and correct that blatant ignorance:

the japanese emperor was considered a diety by his people and worshiped as such. what he said was law, and he had convinced his people that the only honorable solution to defeat was to die killing as many americans as possible. this mentallity was shown to its fullest in okinawa when US marines tried to stop women for throwing their own children off of cliffs because they were brainwashed into believing that they would be mutilated and tortured by the americans. they were absolutely willing to kill themselves rather than surrender to the american forces. out of approximately 107,000 japanese soldiers on that island, 100,00 were killed because they refused to surrender (source). this clearly shows that if we had attempted an invasion of japan, it would have been the worst bloodbath in human history. they would have fought to the death. hiroshima and nagasaki combined caused about 200,000 casualties, but an invasion would have increased that number exponentially (source). american casualties were projected to have been close to one million. in short, by ending the war with atomic weapons we saved ten times the number of lives that were taken in the action.

America’s efficiency in killing is as brutal and sometime more than the “terrorist”. The difference is some of you people want to excuse their actions as state sponsored activities. It does not matter if an individual did it or a state torture is torture. Sheeez some of you think its torture not to get your latte in a reasonable amount of time.

and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (again). the liberal media's definition of torture is standing for hours on end combined with sleep deprivation. techniques used on our own men and women to prepare them for war. the other isolated incidents are just that....isolated incidents, and the perpetrators have been and are being punished. its an unfortunate fact of war that if you take an army trained to win a war and try to make jailers and peacekeepers out of them you are going to have these kinds of incidents. it doesnt make it right, but neither does it mean that this is US policy. you do realize that civilians carrying weapons are legally spies under the geneva convention and can be summarily executed as such under international law. of course not, because you havent researched anything. we give them three squares a day and their own quran. i'd say we treat them a helluva lot better than the international rules of warfare say we have to.

If things at home as good as you want to believe then I could understand but America is screwed up when dealing with its own citizenry.

really? then why, even to this day, are people risking their lives to try and get here? because it's such a hostile place to live? because they are treated so poorly? no, it's because people like me can grow up in abject poverty, never owning a new set of clothes until they are eight years old, and manage to pull themselves up out of the gutter, get some training, and build up a real good life for their family. you, my friend, are the one falling hook, line, and sinker for the propoganda.

Exactly how many died the instant the atomic bomb went off? Hundreds of thousands of people died in milliseconds. I was talking time frame the actual amount of time. If you want to talk about counts of people then you want to talk about the amount of Africans and Indians killed for manifest destiny? Think again.

Such as civilian carrying guns you might want to tell that to the security forces or mercenaries the US army hired to do “light” work in Afghanistan and Iraq.(also the people behind most of the atrosities in Iraq)

BTW again international law has already deemed the invasion and occupation of Iraq as illegal. That is why America did not sign on to the international court. They seem to believe they are higher in standing that the rest of the word. Sound very supscuos to me almost arrogant.


As the point on prisoners; not telling love ones where they are and not letting international observers see the camps puts major dout on your claims of good stewardship of prisons. Abu Garab show your premise is wrong. Let international groups in then let me get a more balanced view of what your claims are. Because I can’t just take your word for it. And again the US claims that they do not have to follow the Geneva conventions. Which includes contact with family. Which they do not allow.

You did not pull yourself up not without a support structure geared to giving wealth benifits to whites. Which is historical. You might want to read the transcripts of the Katrina victims and still see if that is the case. Take the rose colored glasses off.

BTW what party line? Do you know..? I do not belong to a party both are corrupt.

Originally posted by bodrul

BBC
The treatment of prisoners in these places - including Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and Abu Ghraib in Iraq - has come in for intense scrutiny and evidence of human rights violations has been widely reported.

But less well-documented is the process by which terror suspects are sent by the United States for interrogation by security officials in other countries.

This is known as "rendition" and is becoming increasingly controversial because many of these countries - including Syria and Egypt - are accused of using torture on prisoners, not least by the US State Department.

BBC
CIA prisoners 'tortured' in Arab jails
A former CIA official has confirmed suspicions that dozens of terror suspects have been flown to jails in Middle Eastern countries where torture is routinely practised, and without reference to courts of law.
Michael Scheuer, who once headed the hunt for Osama Bin Laden and left the CIA last November after a 22-year career, said the practice, known as "extraordinary rendition", was seen by the US as a key tactic in its war on terror.

"The bottom line is getting anyone off the streets who is involved in acts of terrorism is a worthwhile activity," he told the BBC's File On 4 programme.

Mr Scheuer said the operation was authorised at the highest levels of the CIA and the White House and was approved by their lawyers.


"The practice of capturing people and taking them to second or third countries arose because the Executive assigned the job of dismantling terrorist cells to the CIA.

search google for other articles

Wrong all of the above have opinions and views.
As I and many others have said : "There is no such thing as impartial news"

Originally posted by sensfan
Because part of the reasons (after the failuer to find wmd) that Bush is using to invade Iraq and take down Hussein was because of their record of human rights. Bush stated in several speaches how the US as a nation couldn't stand by while an evil dictator like Hussein tortured and killed people.

If that was true the US had to declare war to North Coreia, 90% of Africa, some countries in South America, some countries in Asia.
I don't think that anyone would believe that escuse.

Originally posted by Caetano
If that was true the US had to declare war to North Coreia, 90% of Africa, some countries in South America, some countries in Asia.
I don't think that anyone would believe that escuse.

No it just means they picked him first, dear lord why do people use that exscue?

I just have a question for those who are pro America and against the "terrorist".

If some country or group of countries invaded the US, because the considered the US a threat to the world, and in the process they killed thousands of Americans, including your family, how would you react?
I think many of you would do exactly like those "terrorists". You would use bombs, guerrilla warfare, kidnapping, and other non convencional tactics that you consider terrorism, and I consider a simple consequence of war. They are no rules in war, and when a side is much more weak than the other, that side is forced to use the weapons they have.
Maybe you think that the right thing to do by the Iraqui resistance is to wage war against the US in a convencional way. They are not stupid

We did in America... it was call the revolutionary war. We fought unfair as the British said. The boston tea party and many other actions such as ambushes and not called battlefields. I agree if my family was on the line I am going to fight. Some people in America have a big problem thinking Arab people are human.