Contact! A 25 year UN disclosure plan is now in year 5

a reply to: gortex

Yes, there are a number of candidates. Ross 128b would be my favorite.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I stand corrected and now clearly retract this claim

Thanks for clearing that up!

But you COULD detect change, couldn´t you?

No.

It would not matter what state a particle would be in, as long as it normally does not change state, but only if we want it to. Now, you seem to be knowledgeable on the topic, so, I'd like to know your opinion on this.

A mathematician has already explained it and some parts of his explanation I find could be confusing, but his answer to this question of detecting state change of collapsed or not is clear, and correct:

Q: With entangled particles, can you tell when/how the other particle is measured?

Unfortunately (and this is the answer), there’s no “new-particle-smell” for particles that are still in superpositions and there’s no big flash when that superposition collapses. If you measure an electron’s spin the result is simply “spin up” or “spin down”. That’s all you get. But that doesn’t tell you what the state was before, or if the original state was a superposition of several states, or even if the particle was entangled with something else.

So you've got some particles you believe to be entangled. You have 3 possibilities:
1. measure the particle, find spin up
2. Measure the particle, find spin down
3. Don't measure the particle, in which case you know nothing about it. You don't know if it's still in a superposition of states, or if it's entangled partner has already been measured in which case it's not in a superposition.

I should add that if it was that simple to do, don't you think someone would have figured it out by now? There are numerous writeups like these discussing all the things you can try, and why each one won't work. I've been through these repeatedly with the ATS user I mentioned, neoholographic, who used to write superluminal communication threads about once a year here.

a reply to: DaydreamerX

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: DaydreamerX

Nice one! But - assume I flip the dollar bill over, wouldn't its quantum equivalent half also flip?

originally posted by: DaydreamerX

I am no scientist by any streach of imagination, so wouldn't know. Guess example with the dollar bill is only a crude approximation. The more detailed reasons are way over my head.

cheers)

DaydreamerX, I'm not really complaining about either the no-communication theorem or the dollar bill example.

You are correct about a crude approximation of the dollar bill story. Basically every science show we see on TV has to be simplified for the public layperson to the point that some of the information we get is essentially wrong, but it's explained that way for the purpose of simplification. If they start talking about wave functions, well some people may not know what a wave function is, so the more correct explanation about a wave function being in a superposition of states may not be used on a TV show, unless it's a really long show that has the time to explain wave functions and what they are, which is a challenging task even if that's all the show covers. So yes, the dollar bill is not in a superposition of states like the entangled particle is before it's observed, so that is an issue with that analogy.

It reminds me of a youtube channel that explains things on 5 levels, like a child, a teen, a college student, a grad student, and an expert. The 5 explanations are increasingly accurate as the knowledge of the audience increases to be able to understand the more complex explanations. Here's an example where the researcher doing the quantum explanations avoids mentioning superposition to the child and the teen, but mentions it to the college senior in physics. I think the dollar bill example was used to try to avoid mentioning superposition, and that's why it's so crude as suggested.

College Professor Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED


There's also an episode on quantum entanglement, but it's not done at the 5 levels like that, and they keep it simple so don't mention superposition:

Quantum 101 Episode 5: Quantum Entanglement Explained

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Who’s to say any aliens at beyond the speed of light, at the speed of light, at wormhole conduit speed, etc ….will know any of earths languages to be able to reciprocate in kind?

"Zoltan Kodaly, a visual learning aid"

Just to say I love this Quantum stuff. Especially electrons and particles and all the endless possibilities they hold and hide.

Light speed is such a drag and I'm sure there is much to discover beyond it's apparent limits.

I am particularly fascinated by the act of lightening in our atmosphere and the possibility of another Earth and Moon on the opposite side of our Sun that WE have never seen but someone or something has been far enough "out there" to get a glimpse. Sun = Proton, Two Earths = Two Electrons.

I am also enjoying the reading in this thread and hope you folks keep adding to it as I will when I can.

Ross 128 B .... I wonder if they like music?

originally posted by: nerbot

…..the possibility of another Earth and Moon on the opposite side of our Sun that WE have never seen but someone or something has been far enough "out there" to get a glimpse.

Here ya go Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun (1969)

(You may need to click the play button more than once…but it will play)

Full screen it 😉

🍿🍕

👽

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Initially I failed to see how the Zorgians would have gotten hold of the other "half" of one of our entangled particles.

By using the big Galactic phone book maybe?

But then it struck me: everything in the universe came from the same time and place, so perhaps there is a hidden quantumphysical connection between all particles.

Like a Galactic Telephone Exchange?

Maybe all particles have "addresses", and perhaps you can actually instruct them to "entangle" by manipulation of these addresses.

With a Galactic Telephone Number? Let's ring Saturn.

It is simply that we did not figure that out yet.

Maybe we are so dumb, we allowed TPTB to control the Telephone Exchange, get rid of the Phone Books and reduce the Telephone Numbers to a single button with a picture because people prefer convenience over personal control and complete information of the bigger picture.

We need to Meditate more to connect again me thinks.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Here ya go Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun (1969)

I actually watched this for the first time about 6 months ago.

About the same time the other Earth is where we are now....lol

There are no connections. Not directly in this case....omg it gets so wierd when things flow so well in the realms of the unknown.

originally posted by: nerbot

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Who’s to say any aliens at beyond the speed of light, at the speed of light, at wormhole conduit speed, etc ….will know any of earths languages to be able to reciprocate in kind?

"Zoltan Kodaly, a visual learning aid"

Datz hilarious……to the two letters for each hand position literally say…

DO, RE, MI, FA, SO, LA, TI, DO…. 🤣

Zooooom in

This refers to music notes. The musical notes are A,B,C,D,E,F and G. Sometimes sharp, flat or low. But this is a general scale that doesn’t require sharps, flats or lows. I’ll translate it for you (in clarinet version)

Do: C
Re: D
Mi: E
Fa: F
So: G
La: A
Ti: B
Do: C

As popularized by a song in the movie Sound of Music..



Yeah ….let’s try singing that to communicate with aliens

👽

On the topic of FTL communication, it's an intriguing concept, but the reality is that we haven't found a way to achieve it yet. While Quantum Entanglement shows promise, it doesn't allow for transmitting information faster than light. The phenomenon is still subject to the limitations imposed by the speed of light, as confirmed by numerous scientific studies. So, while it's a fascinating idea, we're not quite there yet in terms of practical implementation.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

BTW, it seems that the name of the person that Simon Hollander hints at is quite easy to find. He provides all kinds of hints during his video (and it is unclear to me why he does this), e.g. he refers to this person having worked for a German car producer whose name starts with a P (oh, well.. I wonder whom that would be..), refers to an EU radiotelescope network this person has been working for (there aren't that many) and informs us this person is semi-retired. So, he just as well might have mentioned the name.

The fact that Simon's source isn't being kept secret, but also isn't being advertised, lends credence to the slow and soft disclosure theory as well as the other information that Simon's source is providing. It sort of tells us that the information we are getting from his source isn't restricted, at least not the stuff that we are being told right now.

a reply to: SpecialTruth

If we use science-fiction as our road map, humanity will eventually figure out faster than light-speed travel, then travel and explore at least part of our galaxy.

If we discover faster than light-speed travel at some point in our future, it's most likely that we would discover faster than light communication first.

If someone or something 11-light years away from us has quantum tunneling communication technology, I can think of two ways that they could send us a message; via quantum tunneling or via standard radio waves. Although it would take 11-years to get to us, It would make sense that a standard radio wave communication would be easier for us to decipher, and would also likely be easier to discover.

I imagine that an initial communication via radio waves would contain a greeting along with instructions on how to build a quantum tunneling radio. Once built and instant, or near instant, communication is achieved, I can only imagine the information that could be shared with us in real-time.

If all this happened already, one issue would be figuring out how, and what, to tell the public, likely some time well after the discovery was made, and after a bunch of new technology has already been developed, weaponized, and restricted of course.

Hypothetical questions for the group, assuming this information is true:

1. Who or what could be communicating with us, and why?

2. What would this mean for the future of humanity and how would it shape our future?

3. Are video games like Starfield an example of soft disclosure for existing, yet secret, technologies already developed or in development? Starfield features both real-time communication technology as well as "gravdrive" (faster than light-speed) travel and a bunch of other cool technologies. I first learned about heartbeat monitors from playing the latest Call of Duty game.

As threads like this “Contact” and “Dimensional” with other beings get posted…..I always say to myself….where have I’ve seen these similarities before.

Of course, the TV or Movies or in Print.

I’m constantly reminded how Science Fiction sometimes become science fact or at least becomes areas of serious scientific study.

Remember

Contact is a 1997 American science fiction drama film directed by Robert Zemeckis, based on the 1985 novel by Carl Sagan. Sagan and his wife Ann Druyan wrote the story outline for the film. It stars Jodie Foster as Dr. Eleanor "Ellie" Arroway, a SETI scientist who finds evidence of extraterrestrial life and is chosen to make first contact.

Interstellar is a 2014 epic science fiction film co-written, directed, and produced by Christopher Nolan. It stars Matthew McConaughey, Anne Hathaway, Jessica Chastain, Bill Irwin, Ellen Burstyn, Michael Caine, and Matt Damon. Set in a dystopian future where humanity is embroiled in a catastrophic blight and famine, the film follows a group of astronauts who travel through a wormhole near Saturn in search of a new home for humankind.

We are living in amazing times!

🍺👽

Hey that professor in Independence Day got a new hair stylist.

a reply to: IndieA

The main problem I have with our imagination is that it well may be too limited. We tend to picture these "others" as if they have the same features we have: a brain, a voice, some type of hands. We then believe they must have invented radiowaves, and then assume they would use these radiowaves to send us messages.

But what if they are very smart whales? No hands, no electronics, no smart phone, space travel, no buildings, no nothing - but maybe they are sending us messages using other means, means we do not understand, but would - if we were smart whales.

If you observe the facts as reported, the typical alien seems to have head, eyes, a mouth, ears, arms, legs, and often is said to be able to chirp like a bird and communicate using telepathy. Most of them seem to be doing fine in our atmosphere and under our pressure. Which, to me, is a clear indication they either have been bioengineered to fit our planet, or .. they are simply another species, and probably an older species, that also lives in or on this planet.

However, there is indeed something in the air - I wonder what.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

We then believe they must have invented radiowaves, and then assume they would use these radiowaves to send us messages.

We didn't invent radio waves, we discovered them.

Radio waves are an universal part of nature that happen to be extremely useful for communications.

However, there is indeed something in the air - I wonder what.

It could be some form of AI.

The idea being that, sometimes biological life springs up and becomes advanced enough to create AI, and maybe even AS, and that AI or AS could perpetuate it's own existence beyond that of it's biological creators. At least, that's the theory the video game Mass Effects seems to use.

The guy might be legit...

Maybe they want the alien reality to marinate in us like a good barbecue.

Let’s just hope they don’t barbecue us!

But again, this is just another supposed insider story that can’t be proven.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

The main problem I have with our imagination is that it well may be too limited. We tend to picture these "others" as if they have the same features we have

No offence, but speak for yourself.

I have often imagined that ET may be SO SMALL compared to a human that it is no surprise they are hard to see.

Perhaps ants and bees would be a better judge of how similar "they" are in appearance....and size.

I often giggle at how we always assume the universe begins with our dimensions as a starting point.

However, there is indeed something in the air - I wonder what.

We could also be part of a brewing Alien fart and one day we will be projected at high speed to stink out a completely new realm.

Peeps, I just found this from a year ago. The person I think Professor Simon has been speaking with is GUNTER NIMTZ.



And this is a Doozie, from 11 years ago!!



This is all getting a bit "Bloody Hell!!!". I need to make friends with more physicists. I may try to get in touch with Professor Simon as he and I don't live that far away from eachother here in France I think.

SIMON.....Message me.

a reply to: nerbot

About Günter Nimtz

Günter Nimtz (born 22 September 1936) is a German physicist, working at the 2nd Physics Institute at the University of Cologne in Germany. He has investigated narrow-gap semiconductors and liquid crystals. His claims show that particles may travel faster than the speed of light when undergoing quantum tunneling.

Although his experimental results have been well documented since the early 1990s, Günter Nimtz' interpretation of the implications of these results represents a highly debated topic,[30] which numerous researchers consider as incorrect (see above, #Scientific opponents and their interpretations). Some oppositional studies on zero time tunneling have been published.[10] The common descriptions of FTL-tunneling signals presented in most textbooks and articles are corrected into final conclusions according to Brillouin and other important physicists.

Gunter does a presentation on FTL tunneling….


Different lecture hall….different presentation that may be clearer and with other slide graphics and still about FTL tunneling.

👽

a reply to: ForteanOrg

In these cases, one simply uses a sufficiently synchronised clock on both sides, to be synchronised by a series of "zeroes" and "ones". A one or zero will be defined by "peeking" (or is it poking..) our particle during a slot (a one) or not (a zero). The observed particle will change its behaviour and so the other particle will do likewise.

With all due respect, if you think that would work you should take a course in quantum mechanics. That is a typical high school answer and it ignores the "force a spin" synchronization communications technology that would be required (and does not exist) in a quantum application, just like quantum tunneling does not explain how this long distance FTL communications could work as well. Fantasy until proven.