Lithium-ion batteries of e-bikes and e-scooters are causing hundreds of fires

a reply to: andy06shake

Fire is not as dangerous as fire that is acting like a blow torch and cannot be put out.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Well, that would depend on the situation and type of fire.

They can be put out with "Lithium Battery Fire Extinguishers" which will run you to the tune of around £33 for a basic model if it's that much of a concern to you.

www.fireprotectionshop.co.uk...

a reply to: StoutBroux

A replacement for the explosive elements is already on the drawing board and should be standard on or before 2030. One company working this is Quantumscape Corporation [QS] along with the large major OEMs.

Quantumscape Corporation

IMO this situation will be fixed. Hopefully sooner rather than later. It is a serious issue.

Last year I purchased a

DEWALT 20V MAX Reciprocating Saw, 3,000 Strokes Per Minute, Variable Speed Trigger with Lithium Ion battery

This thing can saw trees in my yard all day on one charged battery. To date no issues with overheating

a reply to: andy06shake

A ship burned for 6 days.......why?

Imagine if happens in the middle of a city in an underground car park.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Because of an accident perchance that involved electric cars burning.

And yet you will quite happily fill your own car tank with an explosive mixture and use that stuff every day.

Do you imagine if the ship had been full of oil it would have faired better or worse?

Again we use products and materials every day that can be inherently dangerous, Lithium-ion batteries are not much different than many other products on that score.

For the time being, or at least until the technology is replaced they are a necessary evil in today's world.

a reply to: andy06shake

You seem to missing the point.

Batteries are not only full of flammable materials and harmful chemicals, but their massive contained energy is also capable of restarting a fire many times over, even after it appears to be completely out.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

And you seem to be missing a fire extinguisher.

Batteries have been full of hazardous material and harmful chemicals since day dot like lead and acid for instance.

Lithium-ion batteries make sense for the time being and will remain the colour of the day until some other type of battery replaces or supplants the current technology.

That's the salient point.

a reply to: andy06shake

But they are still very dangerous.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Compared to what?

Again a multitude of things we do and use every day can be "very dangerous".

a reply to: andy06shake

I am not comparing anything with anything when I state that they are very dangerous.

Senator Rick Scott wrote:

In addition to the damage caused by the storm itself, the saltwater flooding in several coastal areas has had further destructive consequences in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian by causing the lithium ion batteries in flooded electric vehicles (EVs) to spontaneously combust and catch fire. This emerging threat has forced local fire departments to divert resources away from hurricane recovery to control and contain these dangerous fires. Car fires from electric vehicles have proven to be extremely dangerous and last for a prolonged period, taking in many cases up to six hours to burn out. Alarmingly, even after the car fires have been extinguished, they can reignite in an instant. Sadly, some Florida homes which survived Hurricane Ian, have now been lost to fires caused by flooded EVs.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Just stating the obvious then.

Without any real sort of understanding where the product in question is concerned.

Again the batteries are safe as any other during normal use, but can present a fire risk when over-charged, short-circuited, submerged in water, or damaged.

Same as many other types of technologies we use every day without fear or complaint.

Look at it this way the mobile phone you are most likely carrying around in your pocket right now has a Lithium-ion battery and the potential to explode like a blow torch as you put it, and yet there it remains for most of us, without so much as a second thought.

a reply to: andy06shake

i will refute this with personal experience.

yes they brand these types of extinguishers but functionally and practically they do not work. you can put out the subsequent fires cause by the ignition of a L-ion but your not getting the source extinguished unless you can submerge the source.

In cells like the 18650, which are widely used, the source ignition comes from inside a metal tube, its like a rocket and i have seen them speed off across the floor and shatter windows in a mall, bounce around a car igniting the interior. Even when ignited and placed in a bucket of water the source continues to burn until the fuel is gone.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Underground they can just flood it. They didn't want the ship to sink so they couldn't fill it with water. So they let it burn.

a reply to: mikell

Why didn't they want it to sink?

If an underground carpark has 500 evs on fire and they fill it with water.......where will that water go after the event?

Think of the environmental impact.

a reply to: datguy

Specific types of fire extinguishers aside, my understanding is that if you are dealing with a lithium-ion battery fire, it's generally recommended to evacuate the area, ventilate the building, and call emergency services down to the levels of toxicity that may be produced.

If you're in an industrial or commercial setting, there might also be specific fire safety protocols or even equipment in place for dealing with such an incident.

I don't doubt the dangers of the battery technology should they malfunction or overheat datguy.

But i think its safe to say the technology will be with us for a few years to come until a viable replacement is adopted and/or becomes mainstream.

I race RC cars and we use LIPO batteries. They are a known fire hazard. I store my batteries in a fireproof ammo can. When I'm at the track, most tracks require them to be charged while in a fireproof container. There are usually sand buckets all over the pit areas just in case of a fire since water won't do anything.

With that said, they are a lot less volatile than they used to be say 10-15 years ago.

The issue is that these batteries are being used in larger devices drawing more voltage. I saw an 80 volt leaf blower! Usage in bikes and other things where the battery could be damaged or even just not being able to be monitored properly for "puffing" is an issue. Most of these batteries tend to expand when the cells start getting weak or damaged. The battery starts swelling or puffing meaning it could potentially start a fire.

Throw in cheap cables, crappy chinese manufacturing, and abuse.... you have a serious fire hazard.

originally posted by: andy06shake

But i think its safe to say the technology will be with us for a few years to come until a viable replacement is adopted and/or becomes mainstream.

This is the truth, as it stands they ARE still the most efficient for rechargeable, portable and easy to use power sources. As someone who used to do my best to educate consumers i know first hand that people will nod their head and agree until they are out the door and then they ignore everything you just told them. Then they come back days later with a busted, burned out device and try to blame someone else.


a reply to: Edumakated
Yeesssss, so much yes. the owner of the vape shop I ran wanted to bring in more powerful devices that used the LIPO packs, I told him he needed to upgrade his insurance and pay me more just to have them in the shop or I would quit.

a reply to: andy06shake

Over my lifetime, I've owned about 15 vehicles. Not one had issues with fire. Of allllll my family and friends, NONE of them have ever had a fire in/on/under/over/around their many vehicles. In all my life I have ever seen only two vehicles on fire and that was because of horrific crashes.

Lets get serious. Regardless of all the many excuses and reasons of why, the batteries used in EV's today are dangerous and do spontaneously combust causing death and destruction and are difficult to control once combustion has occurred.

a reply to: StoutBroux

No, there is nothing spontaneous about it.
The tesla model S for example uses a Panasonic NCR18650B
Previously Tesla models specifically used Sony VTC4a or VTC5a

I tell you this so you can buy some and test for yourself

I have specifically tried on more than one occasion to get these to batteries "vent" (aka thermal runaway) as well call it the E-Cigarette industry.
It isnt easy, you can beat them, poke them, break them, throw them into fire and still you will not always get them to vent
the best way is to create a loop by connecting positive to negative and then waiting 5-10 or longer minutes for it to overheat internally.

However, this same effect can be achieved with over use, misuse (drawing more amperage than approved specs)
or removing the outer plastic sleeve and making contact with metal surface, like keys or coins in the pocket. Even still the battery will heat up and burn you long before it vents.

between 2013 and 2021 there have been less than 50 incidents reported with teslas and all of them have been reported after an vehicle collision.

I will say though, with something like 450 individual cells in one tesla, you can roast a few marshmellows, but it isnt spontaneous

Edit to add, this guy reminds me of the employee i mentioned earlier

a reply to: Itisnowagain

DCMA policy check the phones chip it probably isn't up to FCC standards. I had the same issue just using one two weeks after buying one after an Apple SE died from an wild arm movement wet napped it and then battery failure. Lived without one for three years then got a tablet then service issues then big eye roll later another year passes and so far so good.