Russian Assassination Attempt of CIA asset on US soil shows major security shift

a reply to: MrInquisitive

I would be careful how much stock you put in anything coming out of the FBI about extremism. For one, it's rather ironic you trust what they say considering the widespread belief you're conveying that the Bush administration--including the intelligence agencies--cooked up the WMD story as an excuse to invade Iraq. It's worth noting that, since 9/11, there are a lot of doors swinging back and forth between the FBI and the CIA and other intelligence agencies, whereas before that they were mostly independent of each other. So if you don't trust the other agencies, I don't see how you can trust the FBI.

Even if you discount that, have you looked harder at some of these "right wing extremist" cases the FBI documents? Yes, some of them are legit right wing nuts, but there are also people whom calling "right wing" is a flat out joke. For example, they pretty much automatically label anyone with anti-government attitudes as a right winger, whether they actually hold any right wing values or not. I'll remind you that antifa are an anti-government group that are all left wingers and committed plenty of terrorist acts. You won't find many of those cases in the FBI reports about domestic political terrorism though. Nor will your find much of the BLM political violence which is, by definition, terrorism.

On this subject, there's also a lot of dishonest conflating of racism with right-wing extremism, like that's an automatic connection and no one on the left can be racist, which is obviously demonstrably false. Many communist figures have racist attitudes. Again, look harder at the actual cases. In some of them, the ONLY indication of political leanings that they'll cite is that the perpetrator had racist views. That does not make one inherently left or right leaning, so if that's their only reason for calling him a right-wing extremist, that's a dishonest classification.

Why they're dishonestly trying to inflate the number of right wing extremist cases is another question.

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: MrInquisitive

I have my bones to pick with him from when he pushed Bush II's and Cheney's WMD lies about Iraq.

They weren't lying.

They did have WMD and moved them into Syria just before the 2nd Gulf war. Candy Vice dropped the National Security Card on the DHS in the Southern District of New York Court in 2005 as over a dozen international warrants for arrest were being requested. The entire investigation was shut down. Candy worked for Bush II

I am compromised by this. They also got everyone who held a Top Secret Security Clearance as per CIA Spook who appeared on NetFlix documentary ~ SpyCraft

OPM Breech Cyberattack

PM me

Worth noting that one of the people who believe Iraq transferred its WMD to Syria was President Obama's DNI James Clapper. You know, the guy that's a left-wing hero now.

Also worth noting that a lot of the intelligence used to make the determination that Iraq still had WMD programs was compiled under the Clinton administration. Clinton, being in his lame duck years and having already been through the Lewinsky scandal, didn't think he had enough political capital left to do anything about it in the final years of his presidency.

Also worth noting that coalition soldiers did find old stockpiles of WMD in Iraq. I did a thread about it a few years ago. It was reported in plenty of Democrat news outlets like the NY Times. There's a VA program for soldiers to report exposure to it, because some were burned and suffered other injuries handling the shells. The stockpiles were old and many were deteriorated, but some were still usable. Chemical weapons have a shelf life but once they're past that date, they're not just safe, no more than a bottle of medication is safe to swallow once it expires.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: MrInquisitive

I would be careful how much stock you put in anything coming out of the FBI about extremism. For one, it's rather ironic you trust what they say considering the widespread belief you're conveying that the Bush administration--including the intelligence agencies--cooked up the WMD story as an excuse to invade Iraq. It's worth noting that, since 9/11, there are a lot of doors swinging back and forth between the FBI and the CIA and other intelligence agencies, whereas before that they were mostly independent of each other. So if you don't trust the other agencies, I don't see how you can trust the FBI.

Even if you discount that, have you looked harder at some of these "right wing extremist" cases the FBI documents? Yes, some of them are legit right wing nuts, but there are also people whom calling "right wing" is a flat out joke. For example, they pretty much automatically label anyone with anti-government attitudes as a right winger, whether they actually hold any right wing values or not. I'll remind you that antifa are an anti-government group that are all left wingers and committed plenty of terrorist acts. You won't find many of those cases in the FBI reports about domestic political terrorism though. Nor will your find much of the BLM political violence which is, by definition, terrorism.

On this subject, there's also a lot of dishonest conflating of racism with right-wing extremism, like that's an automatic connection and no one on the left can be racist, which is obviously demonstrably false. Many communist figures have racist attitudes. Again, look harder at the actual cases. In some of them, the ONLY indication of political leanings that they'll cite is that the perpetrator had racist views. That does not make one inherently left or right leaning, so if that's their only reason for calling him a right-wing extremist, that's a dishonest classification.

Why they're dishonestly trying to inflate the number of right wing extremist cases is another question.

I don't blindly accept what the FBI says, but it is the federal law enforcement agency, so to some degree I have to accept its findings just as one has to the accept the local police's to some degree. It doesn't mean that I don't question their statements and motives. For example, I find it suspicious how intelligence was ignored pre-Jan. 6 by the FBI and other LE agencies. I also realize the FBI likes to use entrapment. It did so with Middle Eastern terrorists and would-be terrorists here in the states, and it does seem to be doing it with right-wing and white-nationalist groups here and now. However, these latter groups do exist and pose a threat. When a bunch of armed guys wearing masks and dress reminiscent of storm troopers go to protest some LGBTQ event or Proud Boys come to Portland, OR to incite violence with the liberal locals, they pose a problem and a form of political and social intimidation.

As for Antifa, some of them were involved in the rioting and vandalism of the George Floyd protests. However, I know a couple of Antifa people and they may be a bit anarchistic in their political views, but they are anti-government per se and accept and deal with our government system.

I understand there is some conflation of right-wing extremism and white nationalism, but there is considerable overlap as well. I tend to use the former term as an all-encompassing one, but understand that is painting with a broad brush. As to the different flavors of racism and extremism, I am sure there are some racist, anti-government black nationalists out there, but they are few and far between. Given the general tenets of the left, I don't see a lot of room for racism in it. The Manson family, arguably leftist hippies, were evidently trying to start a race war, but otherwise I have not seem any sign of overt racism in the liberal groups and organizations I have rubbed shoulders with. Now can a person that avows liberal tendencies also be a bit racist? Sure, but I have yet to see it as part of some political agenda on the person's part. More they just have a personal fear or dislike of one race or another. That to me is personal bigotry rather than politically-based racism.

The racism I have seen most is tied to extremism is white nationalism. The fact that white nationalists don't want to share power with minorities means they are de facto anti-government because we have a pluralistic society that tries to respect all ethnic groups and religions. Speaking of which, the term white nationalism can also be extended to white Christian nationalism, and in fact some politicians, such as MTG, speak in these terms. To be clear, I am in no way suggesting that all or even a large fraction of caucasian Christians are white Christian nationalists, but this latter group, WCN, is certainly a portion of the right wing.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: MrInquisitive

I have my bones to pick with him from when he pushed Bush II's and Cheney's WMD lies about Iraq.

They weren't lying.

They did have WMD and moved them into Syria just before the 2nd Gulf war. Candy Vice dropped the National Security Card on the DHS in the Southern District of New York Court in 2005 as over a dozen international warrants for arrest were being requested. The entire investigation was shut down. Candy worked for Bush II

I am compromised by this. They also got everyone who held a Top Secret Security Clearance as per CIA Spook who appeared on NetFlix documentary ~ SpyCraft

OPM Breech Cyberattack

PM me

Worth noting that one of the people who believe Iraq transferred its WMD to Syria was President Obama's DNI James Clapper. You know, the guy that's a left-wing hero now.

Also worth noting that a lot of the intelligence used to make the determination that Iraq still had WMD programs was compiled under the Clinton administration. Clinton, being in his lame duck years and having already been through the Lewinsky scandal, didn't think he had enough political capital left to do anything about it in the final years of his presidency.

Also worth noting that coalition soldiers did find old stockpiles of WMD in Iraq. I did a thread about it a few years ago. It was reported in plenty of Democrat news outlets like the NY Times. There's a VA program for soldiers to report exposure to it, because some were burned and suffered other injuries handling the shells. The stockpiles were old and many were deteriorated, but some were still usable. Chemical weapons have a shelf life but once they're past that date, they're not just safe, no more than a bottle of medication is safe to swallow once it expires.

The Left hasn't made James Clapper a hero. The MSM, which I would include MSNBC in, has. I have been uncomfortable since the beginning of talk about Russia cooperation with the Trump campaign that a lot of these same intelligence bigwigs were the clowns claiming Iraqi WMD's.

I don't doubt that NATO found some 10+ year-old chemical weapons from the 1979 Iraq-Iran war when they advanced into Iraq, but they didn't find them in any large quantities or find evidence of current production. Chemical weapons were originally meant to be stored for 10 years. The US later changed this spec to 20 years; I doubt Iran had the wherewithal to build chemical weapons to last that long, so whatever stock Iraq had was past its shelf life. You know that if they did, the Bush-Cheny-Rumsfeld regime would've yelled it to the heavens, as they were desperate to vindicate their causus belli against Iraq. The primary WMD claim, however, was that Iraq was working on a nuclear weapons program and no evidence was found of this. Claims of a bioweapon program also never bore fruit. Again, if the US had found anything of note involving WMD, they would've proclaimed it to the world, and would have been a great campaign talking point for Bush-Cheney in the 2004 election.

a reply to: face23785

The international company I worked for manufactured equipment that was on the Feds not allowed to export WMD list. I forgot the actual name of that list. I also know that another one was shipped to a country North Africa as it was supposed to be used at a huge veterinarian hospital. The hospital never got built and said machine was left in the desert in a crate. The Russians would cannibalize it for parts now and then.

I often wondered why NATO authorized strikes against Libya in 2011.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

I don't see how the SDNY Court would have jurisdiction on the transfer of WMD's between the two

SDNY is a Federal court. Directives by International executives from another foreign country to those here in the USA were made instructing same to break US law.

It doesn't apply to your comment

originally posted by: Waterglass

Title shortened to Fit.

Did Adam Schiff open the door on this as he wasted years of the Russia hoax against President Trump. He was in charge of the Intelligence Committee. Actually, that Russia attempted to do this on US soil may force all those traitors among us to be exposed as those loyal to the USA will now have to regroup, rebrand and do the job.

Schiff chaired the House Intelligence Committee from 2019 to 2023 and was removed from it by Speaker Kevin McCarthy in 2023.

A 2020 attempt by Russian agents to target and kill a CIA asset on U.S. soil signals a major shift in how the U.S. intelligence community assesses the threat faced by foreign informants who are vital to U.S. intelligence gathering.

Russian Assassination Attempt

Earlier this week, The New York Times revealed an unprecedented attempt by Moscow to pursue Aleksandr Poteyev, a former high-ranking Russian intelligence officer turned informant for the CIA who was living in Miami.

I'd say there's at least some chance that none of this happened - that no assassination attempt to foil, because the story is entirely made up to fit the needs of those who would benefit the most from keeping the gears of the second Cold War turning.

a reply to: JKLTO

A second cold war is good IMO. Why? It seems to keep the USA 50 / 50 balanced. Right jow were 70 / 30 leftist