Hellfire is a Lie

Greetings ATSers. Good health to you and yours.

Those who are familiar with my posts know that I mostly enjoy discussing Biblical topics. Rarely do I directly deal with things such as the Trinity and Hellfire, because I know they are explosive issues over years, decades of experience talking with people. In fact if at all possible I try to avoid any topic that may offend or turn a person away, knowing that if a person is shown love and understanding, and they are opened to listen to God's word, that with time they themselves will come to learn many truths contained in the Bible, including this one. There is no Hellfire.

I was sitting here and a number of personal experiences came to my mind about this subject. One was with a dear friend and brother and his mother from Gunnison, Colorado. When they lived in Pueblo. They were teaching kingdom truth to a parishioner of the Catholic Church. Well when the bishop found out they wanted that person to have nothing to do with this study of the Bible. But the Catholic was learning things that they were never taught in Church. So they set up a meeting between the Catholic Bishop and several other of the hierarchy of the Church with this brother and his mother. The student said that if they could show their position from the Bible he would stop studying with the Witnesses. It was an interesting meeting. That bishop with these two JWs. He had a room full of Catholics on one side, learned studied people, he himself at the Vatican. Could go on for two hours about what was said at that debate. But the Catholic bishop concluded saying that the Witnesses were right and that there was no Hellfire taught in Holy Scripture. But he refused to say they would stop teaching this lie to the people.

Another one was of my father who was talking with a Methodist minister at his doorstep one day. They got into a discussion that lasted hours. And finally the Methodist minister admitted that Jehovah's Witnesses taught the truth, that there is no Hellfire taught in the Bible. When he was told that now that he knew this he couldn't keep preaching it. He said, "oh yes I can!"

Another has to do with my mother-in-law who was raised a good Catholic and she raised my wife a good Catholic. Well when she was learning the truth the bishop in her hometown in Mexico approached her and her Bible teacher. After a couple hours of debate the Catholic Bishop admitted, Jehovah's Witnesses are right. Hellfire is not taught in the Bible. And when my mother-in-law asked him why he kept teaching a doctrine he knew was a lie he said, because 'if I don't tell the people what they want to hear I would lose my position, and then I would lose my car and my house.'

I have numerous accounts of talking with religious people who were adamant that Hellfire was real. But when reasoned with from Scripture all of them admitted that it is not taught in the Bible. One person I worked with who was a devout and faithful Catholic, actually quit his career after a long conversation with me, and it was announced to everyone that he was going to Catholic seminary to study to become a Catholic Priest. What made him do it? He wanted to study and learn how to counter what he had been shown from the Bible, that Hellfire did not exist. He decided to dedicate his entire life to defeating the idea that God does not burn people forever in a Hellfire, in perpetual torture. I told him before he left, that he was not going to ever be taught from the Bible that Hellfire exists, or anything that could defeat what God's word says about the matter.

I could quote scripture here and prove by reference how the Bible teaches that the soul is a living being with flesh and blood and that when it dies it ceases to exist. And that resurrection is the Biblical teaching and hope for people that die. That God finds the very idea of burning people repugnant and it never even entered his mind (well Jeremiah 7:31) and go to the root words in the Hebrew and Greek of Sheol and Hades and how they mean mankind's common grave, and not Hell and Hellfire that many translations of the Bible use.

That is not the point of his post. Nor is it the point to berate anyone that believes in the teaching. I write it here because I have come across so many people lately, on this board, and other places who have been traumatized by this wicked and false teaching of the Church.

The Church leaders themselves don't believe it. When they study the Bible they realize that Hellfire is not something taught in it. Perhaps they need someone like a Jehovah's Witness to sit down with them and open their eyes, but they aren't fools. In fact any reasoning person doesn't really believe such a fanciful idea that a loving God could ever possibly consider burning a person for an eternity in perpetual torment, for a few years of sin, willful sin or not.

To those who have been traumatized by this satanic teaching, know that God is observant of the pain you were caused and he can and will heal the wounds. And he will hold to account all of the religious leaders who knowingly misrepresent his word and his name to the people. And to the religious leaders in Christendom who continue to teach lies about God, you really do have to stop before God holds you to account for demonizing his great and Most Holy name.

a reply to: randomuser

Define 'Hellfire' please.

a reply to: randomuser

Hellfire is a Lie

Well if God really is of the benevolent sorts.

And does indeed love us unconditionally.

That goes without saying i suppose.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: randomuser

Define 'Hellfire' please.

In the context of the OP it is a place that an unrepentant sinner is thrown after death where he will be perpetually burned in torment forever.

There is a place in the KJV that states:

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."-Matthew 5:22.

The word in Greek used is literally Gehenna:

"‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna."- NWT.

Gehenna was a valley where people went to burn their refuse. The idea was that a person who had murderous intent toward their brother could be liable to being burnt in the fire of Gehenna. Not that they would be burned forever as taught by the Church. Fire is a symbol of complete destruction. And Gehenna is symbolic of the second death, from which there is no resurrection:

"And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."-Revelation 20:14.

Notice that the "lake of fire" is symbolic of the second death. The NWT translates the word in Greek "Hades" as "the Grave" notice the KJV:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."-Revelation 20:14.-KJV.

"Hell" is cast into the "lake of fire" which means the second death. Hell is NOT the lake of fire.

To give an analogy, if anyone has ever seen The Lord of the Rings trilogy at the end Gollum falls with the one ring into the lava of Mount Doom. What happened to the ring and to Gollum/Smeagol when they fell into the lava? Did they burn on forever into perpetuity or did they become completely destroyed and cease to exist?

a reply to: randomuser

So are you saying that some people believe that the literal chemical reaction known as fire is occurring in a physical form and burning people even though they are dead? In my experiences out of body you don't really feel physical pain.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: randomuser

So are you saying that some people believe that the literal chemical reaction known as fire is occurring in a physical form and burning people even though they are dead? In my experiences out of body you don't really feel physical pain.

Yes, if this idea is new to you that is good. Any reasonable person could never possibly even fathom such a horror. But sad to say this is the reality for billions of people under Church domain over the centuries. I asked my wife this question you just asked, and she can confirm to me that yes, this is what was taught in the Church, and she was indeed scared silly by this demonic teaching spewed by the religious leaders of Christendom. From my wife:

"I closed my eyes at night and imagined a lot a lot of fire, and the Devil throwing people into it and people everywhere screaming in pain, they were in the fire screaming."

That's what I heard growing up as a Catholic but I never thought even as a pre teen people would be stupid enough to believe in such a thing. I just kind of chalked it up to 'stupid' history.

If anything, Hell would be the reliving of all of your worst moments with extreme feelings of anguish and inner pain 'forever' until you managed to fix whatever was wrong in your psyche.

a reply to: randomuser

originally posted by: randomuser
When they study the Bible they realize that Hellfire is not something taught in it.

Open your Holy Bible to Luke 16:14-31 and read it please. And then tell me and the good readers where the Rich Man was in verse 23. Name the place the Holy Bible mentions he was speaking from. If you will be honest and do this, the people reading this thread will know the truth.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
That's what I heard growing up as a Catholic but I never thought even as a pre teen people would be stupid enough to believe in such a thing. I just kind of chalked it up to 'stupid' history.

If anything, Hell would be the reliving of all of your worst moments with extreme feelings of anguish and inner pain 'forever' until you managed to fix whatever was wrong in your psyche.

a reply to: randomuser

Agreed. Common sense tells us the teaching is ridiculous. So what does that make the Church leaders that teach it? They too know that it is a lie.

It reminds me of something Nicodemus said to Jesus. This is important. Because you see, Nicodemus he was a religious leader of the Jews, and a member of the Sanhedrin, that is the Jewish High Court. So this was a learned man with power and authority, and not without influence or knowledge of things that was going on. He said:

"This one came to him in the night and said to him: “Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.”-John 3:2.

Do you get that? He admitted that the Jewish religious leaders KNEW Jesus came from God. But what were they saying in public?:

"But the Pharisees were saying: “It is by the ruler of the demons that he expels the demons.”-Matthew 9:34.

They were knowingly lying to the people about Jesus Christ. They knew he came from God but were telling the people that he was from the Devil.

A similar thing is happening today. The religious leaders of Christendom KNOW Jehovah's Witnesses speak and preach the truth, but they lie to them and tell them they are from the Devil.

Jesus told the religious leaders that any sin even against the son of man will be forgiven, but the sin against the holy spirit, which is the denying of the power of God and his holy spirit in operation, when you KNOW that is what is going on, will never be forgiven.

Are you suggesting that I can commit all kinds of moraly repugnant acts or sins and there are no consequences besides those imposed by other men?

a reply to: randomuser

So, you should tell people that the NWT Bible is put out by the JW, and it is much different than the Bible the majority of Christian’s are familiar with.

What is the punishment listed in your Bible for those that change the word of God? I know what it is in the Bible that people have been using for some 1500 years. This is the part that you attempt to say that the JW translation is the only correct one, and that biblical scholars who translated the original documents were wrong.

Your reply is?

a reply to: randomuser

Interesting post, thank you .

Edited because this post wasn't made in a spirit of starting a fight or debate.

a reply to: randomuser
I was raised in the Catholic Church as well.

My belief now is that Hell is the total absence of God [all that is good].
To me, that would be worse than hellfire.

a reply to: randomuser

Why not just answer simple questions? I’ve noticed this before when dealing with JW. When confronted, they go silent.

You were asked questions by several people, yet refuse to answer. I’ll ask another, who besides JW goes to heaven? If you want to reach people, you have to answer tough questions. Because if you are not willing to do that, you are better off preaching to other JW who believe in the same thing. This is why many view JW as a cult.

I can ask many other questions, like why all the failed prophecy and predictions since JW started? And related to that, what happens to false prophets in your Bible? Tough questions to be sure. Care to answer them?

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Careful now you used the “C” word. LOL . I believe as you do, the absence of God is the worst punishment I can imagine.

Way back when the civilization that created all the crazy megaliths got wiped out or picked up their toys and left no trace of the tech that they had . There were story's verbal passed down from survivors or us Humans that they created or enslaved .


Those stories have been manipulated to fit the need of the political system of the day . priest kings and whoever else who wrote the Bible only included stories that fit their agenda many stories were not written in this "Spoken History book"

The Bible is the oldest political propaganda written Full of no truths half truths and plain out lies to control the populations .

It's a read between lines kinda book No lake of fire no heaven .

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Well, I am among billions who would disagree with you. But you have a right to your opinion.

Respectfully disagree. There are plenty of scriptures that discuss hell. But if you think the Bible is wrong, fake or just stories, there's no point in giving any of them.

-Peace

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

That is a very good way of putting it.

I think that Earth is turning into Hell slowly. No matter what kind of spin you try to put on it.

Then you get into Gnosticism. .. .