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Moldovas European aspirations --- AKA Poking The Bear

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posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 09:23 AM
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Moldova

Located a stones throw, or a rockets launch from the hotly contested Ukrainian regions, under attack by Russia, Moldova is another smaller nation that was once a part of the greater Russian Empire.

Initially an independent state prior to the 14th century, it was ceded to the Russian empire by the Ottoman empire in 1812 by "the treaty of Bucharest"
Until 1991 the region frequently changed its status as the result of several treaties.
Upon the collapse of the USSR, they once again declared its independant status and officially became the Moldova we see today, establishing a constitution in 1994.
Since 1990, like Ukraine there are territories with in its border that still claim fealty to soviet influence, namely the "unrecognized breakaway state" of Transnistria

Today, and under seemingly extreme security, Top EU and NATO officials are meeting, as the airspace has been closed and the region where the meeting is taking place is under tight surveilence.
European leaders meet in Moldova to tackle regional crises and pressure Moscow

"The European Political Community (EPC), which groups 27 EU members with 40 of their allies and excludes Russia and Belarus, chose Ukraine's tiny neighbour Moldova for its second summit.

Less than an hour's drive from a Kremlin-backed breakaway Moldovan region and not much further from war-torn Ukraine, the organisation will try to send a message to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

First and foremost, holding the summit outside Chisinau shows solidarity with Moldova in the face of Russian destabilization operations and support for its EU membership bid."


Zelensky himself has appeared to pander for more support for Ukraines NATO/EU bids


"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who arrived at the summit’s site on Thursday morning, will be seeking not just solidarity but progress on Ukraine's parallel bids to join NATO and the European Union.

The Moldova summit also comes as NATO ministers, including US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, met to discuss the agenda of the alliance's next summit.

The NATO summit in Vilnius on July 11 will debate how formal a promise to give Kyiv on how and when to join the alliance, but in the interim Europe is keen to show support."


This comes after PRO-EU protests in the capitol of Chisinau just earlier this month where many were arrested, and days after attempts by Russian and Belarusian leaderships attempts to sway former Soviet states to join their alliance by offer nuclear weapons.

Interesting developments indeed, surely Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO

I will report any response from Russia or developments on this story when the information is available.



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: datguy

The "Russian Empire" is long gone (as in 1917) and Europe is trying to move beyond the 19th century outlook in relations between countries.

Naturally Putin and co. will be unhappy if Moldova joins the EU and/or NATO, because that will put a lot of pressure on their colony called Transnistria.

So, Europe, in the form of EU or NATO, can opt to allow a Russian leader who is stuck in 1985 to make the rules in the continent or tell him to pound sand.

I wonder what will happen in Transnistria if Moldova joins the EU and there is another successful Ukrainian offensive. They've got to be feeling a bit isolated these days.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

As someone who is more in tuned to the conflict than myself I must ask.
Do find any similarities between the current and potential future of Transnistria, to the present state of Palestine?

Thanks in advance and thanks for your dedication to your own threads on the ongoing conflict!



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

IIRC Transnistria has a 'government' that is corrupt from its boots to its hair and used to make a lot of money from transhipped Russian oil & gas... that it does not now get any more, so they are skint / begging for cash. There's a garrison of about a thousand Russian soldiers who have probably been sweating bullets ever since the Russian attempts to take Kyiv and Odessa were defeated / slaughtered. Ukraine could swat them in a day or so, but won't unless Moldova joins the war (which it won't).
The thing is, Moldova would love to get into the EU and in an ideal world Romania would have re-absorbed it (it was annexed by the Soviets twice, once in 1940 and then again in 1945).



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: datguy




Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO.


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.

Independent countries are precisely that. Independent. Russia needs to come out of the stone age.



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: datguy




Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO.


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.

Independent countries are precisely that. Independent. Russia needs to come out of the stone age.


...Yet you want other countries to throw billions of dollars and support forces to Ukraine to defeat Russia.

Oh the delicious irony.



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

By that logic, the state of Texas was once, part of an "independent nation"
What should happen if they succeed to succeed?



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

I'm afraid that Russia has its gaze firmly in the past, when it was strong (or seen as strong) and is trying not to focus too much on the future (which looks bleak and horrible unless things change very quickly).
The country is just incredibly unlucky and keeps falling into the hands of people who like the idea of being a dictator / Tsar. We tend to forget that the country may be huge, but that the livable bits of it are actually quite narrow. Too far North and you hit tundra and too far South and you get mountains and deserts. So you have the majority of the population in the West and then, outside of decaying mining towns and the odd oil facility everything else in a thin strip from the Urals to Vladivostok (which has to be drawing greedy Chinese eyes).
Infrastructure outside of the Moscow-St Petersburg corridor is bad, pay is appalling, corruption is rife, alcoholism is endemic in places and the country's demographics are appalling, with a falling national life expectancy average, a constant brain drain of the young and everything's getting worse.
I'll be 53 this year. I probably should be dead by now in Russia, either sent to the front or poisoned by something I shouldn't have drunk.
My point is this: Russia continues to look back at 1945 as their one real achievement (that came with a lot of help in the form of Western supplies & equipment that they don't tend to acknowledge). They still think that they're that powerful, as they were in the sepia-toned past of their grandfathers.
And they're not. They've thrown their future away into the bonfire of Putin's demented ambitions.
edit on 1-6-2023 by AngryCymraeg because: Typo



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: Jorge1986s

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: datguy




Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO.


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.

Independent countries are precisely that. Independent. Russia needs to come out of the stone age.


...Yet you want other countries to throw billions of dollars and support forces to Ukraine to defeat Russia.

Oh the delicious irony.


Irony ? You're way off.

It's actually called " supporting the right for a countries independence. "

But you wouldn't know about that.


edit on 1-6-2023 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: datguy


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.


Read this part again.

Seems like this should apply evenly to every country, not simply those of your choosing. The US war machine has already spent trillions and killed millions this century alone, perhaps they should "come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business"?




posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:40 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong
**Not specifically aimed at you but***

actually the forum topic is WW3, the thread topic is in regards to certain players, on both sides, antagonizing each other, and escalating tensions, hence "poke the bear" in the title
Whether you have issues with NATO or Russia, please do not devolve the conversation into the same of type aggrandizing hyperbole that has created these tensions.
[snipped]
All opinions and perspectives are welcome as long they are relevant.
If you make a claim, prepare to back it up
edit on Thu Jun 1 2023 by DontTreadOnMe because: edit by staff



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: datguy

If you link an article on Pro EU protests in Moldova, and then state this:-



I will report any response from Russia or developments on this story when the information is available.


I take that as being an issue of Moldova - Russia relations. Could you please point me in the direction as to where i was incorrect?




posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: datguy

Honestly would be difficult for me to compare the two without a fair amount of digging.

If one wants to drop back to 1926, the Moldavian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (which covered today's territory in Transnistria), ethnic Russians were only some 8 to 9 per cent of the population, while Ukrainians made up almost 50 per cent.

These are reportedly quoted from the Soviet census of 1926 (which I don't have access to and therefore can't verify the quote).

This highlights the core problem with looking at history as a guide to "what should be". By the figures of the 1926 quote, Transnistria should clearly belong to Ukraine and not Russia.

Obviously, a lot has happened in that region since 1926 ... but, by the same token, a lot has happened in Ukraine as an independent state since 1992 that the Russian state prefers not to acknowledge.

I don't see Transnistria being subjected to military assault so long as they keep to themselves (although I suspect Ukraine is sorely tempted to move in with their forces as a rebuke to Putin).

Reportedly, there are people in the Kaliningrad Oblast who have spoken up about K-Grad becoming independent from Russia (the "fourth Baltic state"). I consider it possible the same sentiments may arise in Transnistria if Russia doesn't win the war in Ukraine, although Transnistria will face pressure from Moldava to "come back to mother" ... Moldava considers Transnistria a breakaway province and, like West Germany at the end of the Cold War, is more or less prepared to administratively reintegrate Transnistria's territory into Moldava should the opportunity arise.

Not sure that answers your question, but may shed some illumination here and there.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


I wonder what will happen in Transnistria if Moldova joins the EU and there is another successful Ukrainian offensive. They've got to be feeling a bit isolated these days.


It’s often viewed as a break away or autonomous zone. So in some contexts I often hear it referred to as Moldova. I’m not sure how many have recognized Transnistria, but before Moldova entered any economic alliance, I’m sure everyone would want clarity.

So, I think they’d have to recognize it as an independent state seeing as Russia has troops there, it’s just not worth attempts to bring it back into the fold even at a diplomatic level. There’s no way Russia is going to lose an inch of land to the west right now.



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


I wonder what will happen in Transnistria if Moldova joins the EU and there is another successful Ukrainian offensive. They've got to be feeling a bit isolated these days.


It’s often viewed as a break away or autonomous zone. So in some contexts I often hear it referred to as Moldova. I’m not sure how many have recognized Transnistria, but before Moldova entered any economic alliance, I’m sure everyone would want clarity.

So, I think they’d have to recognize it as an independent state seeing as Russia has troops there, it’s just not worth attempts to bring it back into the fold even at a diplomatic level. There’s no way Russia is going to lose an inch of land to the west right now.



Perhaps Im looking at this too simply but I see the European mechanizations in Moldava, as nothing but socio/political/diplomatic sparring with Russia based on the Russo/Ukrainian war.

European Leaders in Moldova Address Putin


edit on 1-6-2023 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong

you were only incorrect in telling another member not to post.
I imagine, given the history and geography of ongoing conflicts in this region for thousands of years, that some viewpoints and opinions may not follow the Moldvan or Russian or European agenda and i want to hear as many of them as possible



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Gawd, I wouldn't touch Kaliningrad with a 100-mile bargepole. Wasn't it offered back to Germany post-1991, only for the Germans to say that they didn't want it? There's a handful of Germans left there, some Poles and a lot of Russians who were shipped in by Stalin and told to rebuild what the Red Army or the RAF had blown sky-high.
Like much of Russia the infrastructure in Kaliningrad is, erm, a word that can't write because I don't want this reported. Let's just say that it's crappy and leave it at that shall we?



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: datguy




Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO.


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.

Independent countries are precisely that. Independent. Russia needs to come out of the stone age.


Lol.

So the US organised a coup, then chose the new leader. When one part of the country was unhappy with that, they then funded extremists to attack and shell them for years. They also took the time to train and arm them for the conflict they knew was coming (because they were provoking it).

But Russia should ignore this because it's outside of their border (just)?

Some massive hypocrisy there.



posted on Jun, 1 2023 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: datguy




Russia will have an opinion on this as they have previously threatened other nations like finland for their attempts to join the EU or NATO.


Russia needs to come to terms with that fact that what goes on outside of their borders is not their business.

Independent countries are precisely that. Independent. Russia needs to come out of the stone age.


Well the British and us aren't following your mantra so why should Russia.



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