ATS and Keeping Polite Company...

originally posted by: Maxmars

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Maxmars

Being primarily U.S. membership audience was offset by the blessed inclusion of international members.

You have that the wrong way round.

ATS was created in The U.K. and then had the inclussion of international members, including ones from The U.S.

Thank you.

I stand most literally corrected if you inferred that I was speaking about the creation of ATS.

While I really wasn't intending that to be the take away message, it bear noting that the ATS enterprise was initially established in the U.K.

However it cannot be said that the membership is mostly international from the perspective of US participation. Thankfully, the mix has a positive positive effect. And hopefully, our collective geographical dispersion is irrelevant, in the context of our discussions generally (with logical exceptions.)

No problem, and thank you for the clarification.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: olaru12

What was that Saying We All knew as Kids ?


" Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones But Words Can Never Hurt Me "

Take that to Heart , I Still do Sir .........*)

Another falsehood given to us as children that you learn is not true the hard way.

I broke my arm once, and it did not hurt as bad as some things I have had said to me. I don’t remember the pain from my broken arm, but I can still remember every pixel, sound, and smell of the moment when my mind registered those words that were spoken.

Of course, I am not that emotionally connected to ATS that anyone could do that much damage to my psyche, but words used here to deliberately offend or to deliver a virtual slap across the face, I do find off putting. It is easier for me to just leave the thread and remove it from myATS, than to reply.

a reply to: Maxmars

Great OP! I very much appreciate the thoughtful and reasonable way you broke the big picture down into steps -- excellent job!

It manifests mainly in the focus on individual speakers, "you are a..." or "people like you..." or "[insert denigration and diminishment herein.]" And frankly those kinds of posts are represented in the bulk of the "thread-killer" posts. It's as if the desire to offend obliterates the maxim that 'offending is never necessary. What's more, it never makes any contribution to the exposition of the subject of disagreement.

This is exactly the biggest problem as I've seen it evolve. There is no place for the personal attacks, especially when it's a knee-jerk response to a perfectly polite and thoughtful comment.

When we all signed up, we agreed to make quality posts, that would add substance and value to the site. It's disheartening and frustrating to see a thread filled up with pissing match posts -- insult after insult, nothing of value or substance added to the thread, knowing you're making yourself a target too if you post (no matter what "side" you take!). Write an opinion, and someone demands links. Post links, and they're ignored, never read. (Not by everyone of course) A thoughtful and reasonable discussion, considering and discussing various angles and perspectives, can't be had. It just becomes too much work for too little reward.

It's not even about someone being offended, so much as it is someone just wanting to offend. I don't understand why people are offended by an anonymous keyboard warrior. Their words say more about them than anyone else. Sometimes it's ignorance, sometimes genuine outrage, sometimes arrogance, sometimes just a nasty attitude. It also tells ya that that's the best they can do, so no need to expect better. Although sometimes I can find something of worth or substance to respond to, and do. Sometimes it leads to a good conversation... but not always.

I don't think there are any easy or perfect answers for ATS management but I'm good with whatever they decide. We're all big boys and girls and can speak for ourselves. We can all walk away if we so choose -- whether that's a particular exchange with another member, from a particular forum, or from the site entirely. Or not.

a reply to: TzarChasm

" I wonder why I do that."


As Well as We All do here TzarChasm . I just Made you a Friend Out of Spite and Respect .............*)


Forgive Me ....

a reply to: Maxmars

ATS members are all pulling towards a common goal, namely "understanding." It seems self evident to me. The specific topic is irrelevant. None of us are here to change what others think anymore than we are here to have our thinking "changed." In following the metaphor, should we include people who are NOT pulling towards that goal, or who are NOT participating, or simply acting as some kind of a "foil?"

My opinions changed over the years, and so did the way I think. There seems to be a relation between the language we learn and the ideas we're able to communicate, and I'm looking forward to explore more about myself during the next decades or so. And maybe that pertains to the second part as well, there's hope in our ability to accommodate the negation with laughter.

a reply to: Maxmars

NOW , If you Get Out of Line Here , Be Afraid , Be VERY Afraid.........

a reply to: Maxmars

You know, I often hear it said in casual conversations that "Oh, I don't talk about politics or religion." And I have even heard parents advising their youngsters, "Never discuss politics or religion." And I once saw a sign in a bar that read "please check you politics and religion at the door."

It seemed to me that the overriding ideas was such topics lead to impolite exchanges. But I wondered why. After all, simply saying that one disagrees isn't "impolite" is it? What is it about these topics that make for a "no talking policy?"

I can't think of any other topic that has the power to create world wars quite like religion or/and politics. The passion with which most people view these two topics is either black or white for most people, and their not only willing to use violence to defend their positions but to also force it on others who disagree.

Of course, there's always the money element-massive amounts, free for the taking if one is able to climb the ladder high enough.

I don't think that's why we were put on earth, but it certainly keeps us divided and focused so we don't reach our higher self or greatest potential. There's not much money in harmony.....

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Maxmars

Respectfully, dozens of "f*** you" topics have been typed and uploaded here. Most recently during the so called red wave period when the hot button flavor of the month was abortion. ...

But to focus on your presumptive common goal, understanding. Years ago I would agree, but no longer...

My 2 cents.

Your 2 cents has much appreciated value.

I can't deny that threads do exists that were authored to specifically express scathing rejections, and even hearty endorsements of some thing, person, or policy. I often see those as what they are... the expression of emotion. Since we are not a 'chatroom' and we are not a 'post and run' environment... in my estimation, the value of contributions are largely to be considered as the 'totality' of the thread. Not just the scathing OP but the subsequent dialogue that follows it. Our judgements may vary, our appreciation of reality differs... this is the substance of ATS dialogue... we are not like Borgtube, or any other machine entities out there.

Did you notice that? "[ATS] ... we are not like..."

It is full of intent to separate ATS from the common experiences elsewhere... meant to impress that "dialogue," "discussion," and "discourse" is at the core of our ATS values. But it evoked a negative contrast with unpleasant imagery that added nothing to that point. I could have made that much more scathing, I could have simply skipped it entirely... but I know that YOU would notice the inclusion, and perhaps it might evoke a particular kind of response that I could engage with.

These are the things in discourse that fail to manifest themselves in environments where the structure is 'post and run' or 'present and run.' It is not discourse-focused.

People are going to wax emotionally, and apply everything they feel is organic to their arguments. So yes... there will be the emergence of some who feel that the hatefulness they harbor, the passion that drives them, is part of their expression... Some may find it initially repellent. But the dialogue can reveal the argument's nature where the OP did not. It's the primary distinction between posting a "manifesto" (a la 'post and run') where we presume it has to explain everything, and a discussion in which engenders a more robust or multidimensional message.

Whoo! You really got me going there... sorry for the word salad... bad habits and all.

I'm sorry you no longer entertain that we all share a desire to come to a point of common understanding (not implying acceptance.) And I know that in this real world of ours, there can be and likely are, some who simply want to watch the world burn (schadenfreude - or malicious glee) ... I am not ready to accept that they are anything but the exception... and not exactly a threat... just an "indicator."

Thanks for the comment!

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: olaru12
I had a mod suggest that I grow a thicker skin...Julie I think it was. I did and it was fun for awhile, but now it's just easier to log out and not participate in threads that are just star echo chambers.

I have to laugh.

I got that same response, not sure from which mod. It was a long while back. I don’t think my skin ever got that much thicker, but I too opted for the log out button, finding it be a much better and easier way to deal with it.

Come On Man ? Sticks and Stones Bro ......................Think of it All as Going Back in Time and Confronting that Bully who took your Lunch Money that one time , and Just Say NO ! this Time ......*)

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Maxmars

When I First Joined ATS , it came as a Referral from a Friend who was a Member of the Black Vault Website and Into Obscure Topics of Conversation Usually Related to the UFO Phenomenon , Black Government Projects , and Out of the Box Conspiracy Theories . It was Mostly those Topics that Found a initial Home here on ATS back in 1997 . Since that Time , it has Evolved with the " Political Times " as have we All , and it is Now a Mostly Political Oriented Site due to the World being that way Today . I to Miss the " Old Days " , but they are Long Gone . Time and Tide Wait for No Man .........

Yes... yes... yes.

It can't be said that the effect of political discourse has no effect on discourse here in general... My conspiracy theory oriented self attributes it to the overall effect of the political theater and it's amplification in all our media sources. Purposeful or not? Who knows for sure... It can only be speculated upon.

But the sad effect it had on our UFO and other CT topics was most definitely felt. Our members once knew this was where to go to have a real conversation about these things... and we can still have them... but the bleeding of partisan wounds spreads everywhere, onto all topics... and it seems many still abide naturally to the notion of "you can't have a polite conversation about politics" (or whatever) So when a government conspiracy is being discussed it now mean the inevitable partisan take on that particular administration, personality, or ideology and ... boom ... precisely the kind of discussion you didn't want to have. I think some folks shy away from discussions for this reason. Well, maybe...

Struggle all you like. You can't fix this.

Watching you try has now become the only entertainment left to be had here, I suppose.

The brain drain that occurred here in 2016 hasn't even left any good brains to troll. I dunno how to quite describe it, "Grody to the max!" comes to mind, but that's not quite it.

Anyhow, have a nice day.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: olaru12

What was that Saying We All knew as Kids ?


" Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones But Words Can Never Hurt Me "

Take that to Heart , I Still do Sir .........*)

Another falsehood given to us as children that you learn is not true the hard way.

I broke my arm once, and it did not hurt as bad as some things I have had said to me. I don’t remember the pain from my broken arm, but I can still remember every pixel, sound, and smell of the moment when my mind registered those words that were spoken.

Of course, I am not that emotionally connected to ATS that anyone could do that much damage to my psyche, but words used here to deliberately offend or to deliver a virtual slap across the face, I do find off putting. It is easier for me to just leave the thread and remove it from myATS, than to reply.

" I broke my arm once, and it did not hurt as bad as some things I have had said to me. "



Sorry to Hear that , As a Still Youthful Male you were Obviously Reacting as a Wuess back then , We ALL DID . Now you MUST See it for What is Was , A First Time Experience in your Life that was a Challenge to your Literal Being on this Earth and you Somehow Survived It in Memory . WE ALL Move On NOW..............

a reply to: Maxmars


Yes , We ALL have " Other Passions " than Politics which Gets in the Way of Our Speculative Dreams and Self Realizations . Mine for One is the Answer to the " Mystery " of HOW They Did That ?

a reply to: Boadicea

Thank you, you're very kind.

When I read

It's not even about someone being offended, so much as it is someone just wanting to offend.

I had to stop... it does seem that way at times doesn't it?

As if it was an actual component of the argument. I can;t imagine where that idea actually comes from - if not 'political theater' and I'm not sure if the important observation there is that it s "political" thing, or perhaps more a "theater" thing... there's room for a discussion there... hmm...

a reply to: Latro

I'm sorry you feel that way. Or at least I regret that you seem to be of that mindset.

I really don't feel it's a struggle though... the struggle comes form the disharmonious side. But if you feel the need to troll, try it elsewhere, there's gotta be someplace worth trolling.

You know, you're not the first person to place a date or time frame in terms of a 'diminishing' of ATS. I can only operate in the now, realistically, so I continue to move forward ... it's not a chore really... Unlike others, I'm not trying to "fix" anything... only enduring the weather, so to speak.

a reply to: nugget1

Oops! I almost missed your response... it's been a happily busy encounter for me.

You are right, where politics and religion are concerned we seem as a species to be unable to contain ourselves to just opinions. Someone always "has to do something" about "those others."

I think we'll get it right eventually.

It'll take a little longer than I'd like ... but it will come... the first baggage we must eject is the parasitical element of 'exploitation.' That will disappear too... in about two or three generations barring an early awakening of society.

Just some hope I thought I'd throw in for good measure...

originally posted by: Latro
Struggle all you like. You can't fix this.

Watching you try has now become the only entertainment left to be had here, I suppose.

The brain drain that occurred here in 2016 hasn't even left any good brains to troll. I dunno how to quite describe it, "Grody to the max!" comes to mind, but that's not quite it.

Anyhow, have a nice day.

Been here less than a year.

3 threads in that time.

No solution.

Yet a litany of perceived problems.




At least consistency is met.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: TzarChasm

" I wonder why I do that."


As Well as We All do here TzarChasm . I just Made you a Friend Out of Spite and Respect .............*)


Forgive Me ....

Just because the website doesn't permit me to cancel your request, doesn't imply consent.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Words can inspire millions to arms or even command to take them up. The pen is mightier than the sword, right?

Time and Tide Wait for No Man

But man can wait for the tide.

Which is rather pertinent I'd think. Questions around who partakes and why is the theme of the day. It's a sad thought to think nobody would sail these seas because they see them as full of pirates.

It was years ago when Juli told me to grow a thicker skin. I did and the rude comments mean nothing to me personally. I realize that many members think it's macho to try and elicit a reaction, get a star from their bro's, but actually this does nothing except for some members to lose trust in anything said by anyone, including some mods. I simply don't trust anyone with an agenda and currently ist's all about the agenda and discussion has fallen by the wayside. Can the old ATS be rejuvenated? I doubt it.... but I also can move forward and endure the weather.

It's a sad day when so many "just don't care" and are either banned or just don't care anymore. I miss a lot of those people and some of them I didn't agree with anything they said, but they knew how to debate with out the...."commie, you suck, bro"