Olive Branches

a reply to: Xtrozero

My point is only that what Russia says is typically hyperbole nonsense and not the actual reason.

I most certainly agree, and our own state sponsored corporate media is no different.

Even still, there is a grain of truth to their allegations in some instances

Not much you can do with level 2 labs that every country needs. The last level 4 lab that the US built cost 1.9 billion. So those labs are in Russian hands now and... Just nothing there just as Russia financing Donbas for 8 years and complaining about it and complaining about expansion of NATO as they invade counties to add to Mother Russia..lol just can't make this crap up if one tried.

Nulin was concerned about those bio labs. Do we agree?

If yes, do you think shes concerned about those bio labs as they pertain to livestock and agriculture?

And while russia was supplying the Donbass, we opened up to selling/giving Ukraine arms.

originally posted by: JinMI

Nulin was concerned about those bio labs. Do we agree?

I really do not know who Nulin is...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Youre a smart fella.

Victoria Nulin.

Have a gander at her past and present when you are able.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: Tebus
a reply to: JinMI

Lets hope Russia agrees to withdraw from Eastern Ukraine, and return Crimea.

If peace is reached , it will cost East Ukraine to Russia & no more Russian oil in Europe for a certain period of time . There will be walls build again in Eastern Europe imo . A new chilled war with Russia.
Sad part is , NATO , Ukraine & Russia push boundaries non-stop . God help all of us . By the end of summer the Ukraine without help will be in dire straits.
Im sure western small arms manufacturers are selling massive amounts of guns & ammunition to the Wagner Group in various dark routes of secrecy.

Let's not talk fantasy and instead focus on reality.

Thanks.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Xtrozero

Youre a smart fella.

Victoria Nulin.

Have a gander at her past and present when you are able.

Victoria is a monster just like Albright was. War never ends , it just takes new forms .

This is an important event in world history.
If China brokers peace between Russia and the West, that puts China in charge of the world. It is a big turning point.

a reply to: DISRAELI

It would certainly be a major soft power result for China.

However at moment the China peace plan has no real measures in it.

Ukraine is not going to accept anything that involves ceding territory. If china gets Russia to withdraw that will be seen as a result for the west as much as China.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
However at moment the China peace plan has no real measures in it.

The flaw in any Chinese peace plan is that it favours Russia. It rewards Russia for their invasion.

Anyway, does China want peace? They may say they do, but given that Russia is now becoming embedded as a Chinese proxy, and an extension of their foreign policy, perpetual war may be in their interests. Just think of all those cheap commodities, Russia will give China in exchange for subservience.

Don't Russian see that Putin's obsessions has turned Russia into a lackey of China. Russia are no longer independent.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
However at moment the China peace plan has no real measures in it.

The flaw in any Chinese peace plan is that it favours Russia. It rewards Russia for their invasion.

Anyway, does China want peace? They may say they do, but given that Russia is now becoming embedded as a Chinese proxy, and an extension of their foreign policy, perpetual war may be in their interests. Just think of all those cheap commodities, Russia will give China in exchange for subservience.

Don't Russian see that Putin's obsessions has turned Russia into a lackey of China. Russia are no longer independent.

Absolutely.

It's not really a peace plan if it rewards military aggression.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Russia does have a voice in Ukraine. So does the US. Its not our country, but we affect things there, we elicit change, we finance, we do all kinds of things, all while its not our country.

And if they don't want US influence they are able to decline this without fear of a US invasion, same for Russia. That isn't a voice, that's called being a partner. Russia is not a partner.

Wow, you really don't understand this, do you? The whole point of seizing the pipeline and the assets was to take money away from Russia and the opposition party.

Russia was able to make their money on oil transited, they did not own the pipeline prior so your point is incredibly dopey.

LIAR!

Not really, you like to lump things together without separation, it seems to be a language issue.

The past does not dictate the future.

I didn't say 'dictate', try again. See, there's that language thing again.

I never said Russia had a right to invade...

All of your posts are water-carrying excuses why Russia was justified, from 'US meddling', to 'pipeline seizure', to whatever the apologist tact de jour happens to be.

...I never said any of this has anything to do with my feelings.

It solely revolves around your feelings of why you feel it was justified.

Sorry if that frightened you princess.

Frightened of what? Big internet talk? Oh, wait, I forgot, 'libel'. OH, AHAHAHAHAH. Libel. Too funny.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What if your neighbor turned off the water to your house, then you HAD to invade to get it turned back on, not to mention your neighbor was an asshole who kept shooting bullets into your yard, as well. Thats why Russia took Crimea. Then the other people in the area get pissed and start sending bullets to your neighbor because you got fed up with the bull#. Don't eat the empire's propaganda.

originally posted by: Emelius
What if your neighbor turned off the water to your house, then you HAD to invade to get it turned back on, not to mention your neighbor was an asshole who kept shooting bullets into your yard, as well. Thats why Russia took Crimea.

Ukraine turned off the canal AFTER Russia took the territory. You should probably pick up a history book or three so you can catch up on the actual facts instead of having to invent them.

originally posted by: Emelius
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What if your neighbor turned off the water to your house, then you HAD to invade to get it turned back on, not to mention your neighbor was an asshole who kept shooting bullets into your yard, as well. Thats why Russia took Crimea. Then the other people in the area get pissed and start sending bullets to your neighbor because you got fed up with the bull#. Don't eat the empire's propaganda.

The more accurate analogy would be your much bigger neighbour takes over part of your garden.

You then stop watering the part he has taken over.

The neighbour then tries to take over the rest of your garden but turn out to be an incompetent blowhard who trips over his own shoe laces then starts shouting it was all your fault.

NO, and I don't see why others are confused with Ukraine was the original Russia. THAT is why they weren't in NATO. THAT is also why the Russians are not playing about Crimea and Ukraine. It would be like saying we are losing Virginia or New York if it was happening to the USA.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: 1947boomer

Was Ukraines independence sovereignity respected in 2014......?

originally posted by: Justoneman
NO, and I don't see why others are confused with Ukraine was the original Russia. THAT is why they weren't in NATO. THAT is also why the Russians are not playing about Crimea and Ukraine. It would be like saying we are losing Virginia or New York if it was happening to the USA.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: 1947boomer

Was Ukraines independence sovereignity respected in 2014......?

How does that work with Alaska?

It was Spain's and French land before the Brittan's horned in on it, and you know it. As a Welsh descendent I am ok with it too FYI. In fact the system you live under know was the reason we formed this one and the French had that revolution that went too far left and Napoleon ascended.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes. Perhaps Britain should invade America because it used to be ours and the people there mostly are English speaking (sort of) and it has some Nazis?

Surely, we would be welcomed as liberators? No?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Or literally New York and Virginia, the two examples he used.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Justoneman
NO, and I don't see why others are confused with Ukraine was the original Russia. THAT is why they weren't in NATO. THAT is also why the Russians are not playing about Crimea and Ukraine. It would be like saying we are losing Virginia or New York if it was happening to the USA.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: 1947boomer

Was Ukraines independence sovereignity respected in 2014......?

How does that work with Alaska?

If you lived in the USA you wouldn't ask that because you would already understand. The Czar sold it to the US in a time when Alaska was too hard to defend for Russian troops.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Justoneman
NO, and I don't see why others are confused with Ukraine was the original Russia. THAT is why they weren't in NATO. THAT is also why the Russians are not playing about Crimea and Ukraine. It would be like saying we are losing Virginia or New York if it was happening to the USA.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: 1947boomer

Was Ukraines independence sovereignity respected in 2014......?

How does that work with Alaska?

If you lived in the USA you wouldn't ask that because you would already understand. The Czar sold it to the US in a time when Alaska was too hard to defend for Russian troops.

Russia agreed to let Alaska go.

Just like it agreed to honor Ukrainian independence.

Your are probably right that I would need to live in the US to understand your point but maybe not in the way you think...

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes. Perhaps Britain should invade America because it used to be ours and the people there mostly are English speaking (sort of) and it has some Nazis?

How many times have y'all tried that and failed...

The smell of smoke in Washington DC.

Then after the Civil War ended and in heavy debt our "leaders" gave us to the Bank of England as pets without our general consent. We lost our actual sovereignty over gold. Gold the bankers know how to give to their enemies enemy.