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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

"Infact, Ukraine has been denied NATO membership on at least a couple of occasions and we both know why."

Yes, because of the ongoing War? Started by....Russia.

I think we both know why?



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot



Since I never said anything like 'nuh uh' and have repeatedly mentioned Crimea No. That's just something else you are wrong about.


You didnt answer my question.

Why didnt the US or UK do anything about Crimea?

Since that part of the Budapest Memorandum is more important than the rest in your opinion?



Tell us more however about how the US spending money in Crimea is the same as Russia invading. That was entertaining


Back up there guy, its your position that some parts are more important than others.

Id like to how and why you think that.


I did answer it. They imposed sanctions.

Do you really need it explained why invading a country causing hundreds of billions of damage displacing millions and causing tens of thousands of deaths is not the same as spending money in a country.

Really.




As it pertains to the whole memorandum, yes. Yes I do.

Because from my perspective it has never been upheld or respected by any of the nations involved.


See you have an opinion or a truth. And no facts will break that.

If thats your perogative, fine by me.

Thats not why Im here however.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:03 PM
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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:06 PM
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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:07 PM
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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:08 PM
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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot



Since I never said anything like 'nuh uh' and have repeatedly mentioned Crimea No. That's just something else you are wrong about.


You didnt answer my question.

Why didnt the US or UK do anything about Crimea?

Since that part of the Budapest Memorandum is more important than the rest in your opinion?



Tell us more however about how the US spending money in Crimea is the same as Russia invading. That was entertaining


Back up there guy, its your position that some parts are more important than others.

Id like to how and why you think that.


I did answer it. They imposed sanctions.

Do you really need it explained why invading a country causing hundreds of billions of damage displacing millions and causing tens of thousands of deaths is not the same as spending money in a country.

Really.




As it pertains to the whole memorandum, yes. Yes I do.

Because from my perspective it has never been upheld or respected by any of the nations involved.


See you have an opinion or a truth. And no facts will break that.

If thats your perogative, fine by me.

Thats not why Im here however.


If you presented some facts relevant to your claim it might.

Just listing things you disagree with and claiming the broke the memorandum isn't really cutting it however

The point of the memorandum was to protect Ukraine as it gave up the nuclear weapons it 'inherited'.

If you really can't get your head round the differences between the non breeches you listed and Russia's invasion then I'm afraid there is no explaining it you.


edit on 23-3-2023 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
Sure.

However kind of blows apart your narrative eh?


My narrative is that Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum which turns out to be the reality.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JinMI
Sure.

However kind of blows apart your narrative eh?


My narrative is that Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum which turns out to be the reality.


Cool. I agree.

However they werent the first.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot





If you presented some facts relevant to your claim it might.

Just listing things you disagree with and claiming the broke the memorandum isn't really cutting it however


Exactly my point. Your response is "nuh uh!"



The point of the memorandum was to protect Ukraine as it gave up the nuclear weapons it 'inherited'.

If you really can't get your head round the differences between the non breeches you listed and Russia's invasion then I'm afraid there is no explaining it you.


While that may be true it certainly isnt complete now is it?

Youre the one contending some parts are more important than others.

To which I LoL at.

But hey, we are all entitled to our own opinions....just not facts.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:21 PM
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posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
The point is you stated Russia does not have a voice in Ukraine.


And they don't, it isn't their country.


The sale of that oil is not profiting Russia or Medvedchuk, whom it belongs to.


If it was flowing through that pipeline than Russia profited. Do think that the receivers on the other end in the EU weren't paying?


You objected to the fact that the seizure occurred just days after biden took office...


I objected to the fact that the invasion did.


What he did and what he would have done are two different things. Only a fool would claim to know what choices someone else would make based on a barely understood concept of past actions.


Past actions are indicators of future behavior and he certainly wouldn't be carrying Putin's water.


No, I don't. I don't carry their water or their message.


Sure, like thinking Russia has a reason to invade because some people in Ukraine were not doing things you liked to other people in Ukraine. A.K.A. 'fee-fees'.


I have done far worse to far better people than you.


Oooh, internet tough guy talk. LOLOLOL.


It is sometimes necessary to deal with miscreants and malfeasants in unpleasant ways.


What did you have in mind, tough guy?



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
Cool. I agree.

However they werent the first.


Yeah, actually they were vis a vis Ukraine.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JinMI
Cool. I agree.

However they werent the first.


Yeah, actually they were vis a vis Ukraine.


Thats where we disagree.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI


Now I have to wonder why NATO is so involved.



I don't see this as a NATO event as much as NATO countries individually joined at one point or another in support. Ukraine is the door steps of Europe so at least you can see that there would be big concerns no matter what.

Here is the list of countries in 100% support.

Afghanistan*, Albania, Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Benin*, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Comoros*, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, DRC, Denmark, Djibouti*, Dominica*, Dominican Republic, East Timor, Ecuador, Estonia, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Ivory Coast, Jamaica, Japan, Kiribati, Latvia, Lebanon*, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania*, Mauritius, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Morocco*, Myanmar, Nauru, Netherlands, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Norway, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda*, Saint Lucia, Samoa, San Marino, São Tomé and Príncipe*, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands*, Somalia*, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Bahamas, Turkey, Tuvalu, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Zambia*.

Here are the counties 100% against

Belarus, North Korea, Russia, Syria.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:24 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot





If you presented some facts relevant to your claim it might.

Just listing things you disagree with and claiming the broke the memorandum isn't really cutting it however


Exactly my point. Your response is "nuh uh!"



The point of the memorandum was to protect Ukraine as it gave up the nuclear weapons it 'inherited'.

If you really can't get your head round the differences between the non breeches you listed and Russia's invasion then I'm afraid there is no explaining it you.


While that may be true it certainly isnt complete now is it?

Youre the one contending some parts are more important than others.

To which I LoL at.

But hey, we are all entitled to our own opinions....just not facts.



LOL certainly seems the level of argument I eould expect.

Sure spending money in a country is the same as invading it. You have convinced me with your LOL.


edit on 23-3-2023 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero


 A strong, independent Ukraine is vital for the stability of the Euro-Atlantic area. Relations between NATO and Ukraine date back to the early 1990s and have since developed into one of the most substantial of NATO’s partnerships. Since 2014, in the wake of Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, cooperation has been intensified in critical areas. Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, NATO and Allies have provided unprecedented levels of support.


Direct from NATO

Now Ill take your word for now that NATO didnt jump first. But they certainly are now involved.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot





If you presented some facts relevant to your claim it might.

Just listing things you disagree with and claiming the broke the memorandum isn't really cutting it however


Exactly my point. Your response is "nuh uh!"



The point of the memorandum was to protect Ukraine as it gave up the nuclear weapons it 'inherited'.

If you really can't get your head round the differences between the non breeches you listed and Russia's invasion then I'm afraid there is no explaining it you.


While that may be true it certainly isnt complete now is it?

Youre the one contending some parts are more important than others.

To which I LoL at.

But hey, we are all entitled to our own opinions....just not facts.



LOL certainly seems the level of argument I ould expect.

Sure spending money in a country is the same as invading it. You have convinced me with your LOL.



By level of argument you mean factual basis to your ignorant opinion...right?


3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to
Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on
Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed
to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights
inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;


Again, thanks for playing.



posted on Mar, 23 2023 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot





If you presented some facts relevant to your claim it might.

Just listing things you disagree with and claiming the broke the memorandum isn't really cutting it however


Exactly my point. Your response is "nuh uh!"



The point of the memorandum was to protect Ukraine as it gave up the nuclear weapons it 'inherited'.

If you really can't get your head round the differences between the non breeches you listed and Russia's invasion then I'm afraid there is no explaining it you.


While that may be true it certainly isnt complete now is it?

Youre the one contending some parts are more important than others.

To which I LoL at.

But hey, we are all entitled to our own opinions....just not facts.



LOL certainly seems the level of argument I ould expect.

Sure spending money in a country is the same as invading it. You have convinced me with your LOL.



By level of argument you mean factual basis to your ignorant opinion...right?


3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to
Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on
Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed
to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights
inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;


Again, thanks for playing.


You do understand that quoting the memorandum doesn't show that someone broke it right?

Thought I better check given some of your other points.



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