Olive Branches

I am not either. I vote for who I think cares about freedom and justice for all in America. I have been burned voting party lines very badly. The two party system stomps out opposition completely. The neighbors go "you are wasting your vote on Ron Paul your helping the other party"; Tow which I replied "I can sleep at night knowing I am not voting for the lesser of two evils.".

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: LSU2018

Depends on your posting history, I guess. Plenty of Zelensky hating actual Putin supporters on here. Not aimed at you or Jinmi, for clarity.

I'm not for either party, I haven't been since it kicked off. I think it's their problem and business and we should have no involvement in it. Nobody got involved in our Civil War or Mexican-American War besides Indians (Civil War) and Mexicans (Mexican-American War). During the American Revolution, we had 13 colonies, with a little help from France and the Dutch, fighting off the British, Loyalists, Iroquois, Cherokee, and the German Auxiliary.

Every word of that is true.


This survivors of that same battle group that was literally pummeled in New Oleans that day took out Napoleon's troops at the Battle of Waterloo a few months later. They did well running back to the shore to escape and fight another day, indeed! Had they stood their ground that day we would be reporting on a massacre of the troops and a British fleet with just a few marines left to protect it.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes. Perhaps Britain should invade America because it used to be ours and the people there mostly are English speaking (sort of) and it has some Nazis?

How many times have y'all tried that and failed...

The smell of smoke in Washington DC.

Reminds me of an old song....

In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip'
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans

We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

We looked down a river and we see'd the British come
And there must have been a hundred of 'em beatin' on the drum
They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring
We stood behind our cotton bales and didn't say a thing

We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

Old Hickory said, "We could take 'em by surprise
If we didn't fire our muskets 'til we looked 'em in the eye"
We held our fire 'til we see'd their faces well
Then we opened up our squirrel guns and gave 'em

Well, we fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

Yeah, they ran through the briers and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

Is that what we do to Palestinians? I think that is how it has to start. A third party offers a plan for the warring sides.

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: JinMI
The AFP on Twitter is reporting that talks between Xi and Putin are having an effect. Talks of a cease fire and an invite to Zelensky

Meanwhile, the Japanese PM is also on the way to Ukraine.

Japanese PM to Ukraine

Zelensky invites China

Interesting turn of events.

I'm curious to what it looks like on a world stage when peace is negotiated between eastern nations while the west is pushing for more war.

So Russia (the aggressor) and China (third party) negotiated a peace treaty and then invited the victim to join it?

Ummm, and you even wrote it that way. You do understand how fake this all is, right? This has nothing to do with peace. It's just political posturing.

A criminal doesn't get to court the victim to prove how nice they are. They could just stop the war and pull out.

You, my friend, are very, very, very gullible if you fell for this.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Not if you live in California.

Sucks to be you, I guess you should move.

PLEASE DONT tell them to move from Cali. They need to stand their ground. I don't need that state moving where I live and ruining it too.

I realize "visited" is more likely a very fine citizen that would love the mtn people who just like being left to their own things as long as they aren't hurting others.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: DBCowboy

Not get NATO directly involved in the War and carry on supporting Ukraine in defending their Country against a murderous aggressor?

Well the are not in NATO are they?

That is a selling point for NATO soldiers.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: DBCowboy

Not get NATO directly involved in the War and carry on supporting Ukraine in defending their Country against a murderous aggressor?

So just keep on doing what we're doing then.

'Kay.

When it's better than the alternatives yes.

The war will end when either Putin or his successor acknowledges the invasion has failed.

WW3 does not feel like it is a better plan to me.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: DBCowboy

Not get NATO directly involved in the War and carry on supporting Ukraine in defending their Country against a murderous aggressor?

So just keep on doing what we're doing then.

'Kay.

When it's better than the alternatives yes.

The war will end when either Putin or his successor acknowledges the invasion has failed.

WW3 does not feel like it is a better plan to me.

Rewarding military aggression is going to lead to ww3 much faster than anything else.

originally posted by: Justoneman
PLEASE DONT tell them to move from Cali. They need to stand their ground. I don't need that state moving where I live and ruining it too.

Whining about things is not a solution if someone is unhappy with their situation. I get that this site is mostly about aggrievements now but even then, it's tedious.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Russia does have a voice in Ukraine. So does the US. Its not our country, but we affect things there, we elicit change, we finance, we do all kinds of things, all while its not our country.

And if they don't want US influence they are able to decline this without fear of a US invasion, same for Russia. That isn't a voice, that's called being a partner. Russia is not a partner.

Wow, you really don't understand this, do you? The whole point of seizing the pipeline and the assets was to take money away from Russia and the opposition party.

Russia was able to make their money on oil transited, they did not own the pipeline prior so your point is incredibly dopey.

LIAR!

Not really, you like to lump things together without separation, it seems to be a language issue.

The past does not dictate the future.

I didn't say 'dictate', try again. See, there's that language thing again.

I never said Russia had a right to invade...

All of your posts are water-carrying excuses why Russia was justified, from 'US meddling', to 'pipeline seizure', to whatever the apologist tact de jour happens to be.

...I never said any of this has anything to do with my feelings.

It solely revolves around your feelings of why you feel it was justified.

Sorry if that frightened you princess.

Frightened of what? Big internet talk? Oh, wait, I forgot, 'libel'. OH, AHAHAHAHAH. Libel. Too funny.

Nothing but childish gibberish.

I am going to type this very slowly because I know you have reading/comprehension issues.

Ukraine is a unitary state multi-party constitutional republic. Similar to the US except we have a Federal level whereas Ukraine is one state so no Federal republic. What Zelensky did was akin to the democrats in the US shutting down any television station that broadcasts conservative news, then seize the assets of republican leaders. It would never be allowed, is undemocratic, and a threat to the nation and its government.

Sorry, but you cant invent a political device and use it as an excuse for your slanted opinion. 'Partner' is not a recognized political title. What you consider a partnership is meaningless, much like the rest of your biden lap dog opinions.

According to you nothing has changed regarding the pipeline. So what exactly was the point of seizing it in the first place? Please explain why that act was deemed necessary if it changed nothing in regards to Russia.

The only language issue is your inability to understand it. You made a direct, but blatantly false, statement. I called you out for it. You changed the context and acted like you meant something else. I clipped it from your post, showed it to you, and showed you my response. Now you claim its because "I clump things together". Just pathetic.

No, you never used the word dictate. See, this last gasp nitpicking is a tell tale sign you have nothing supporting your claim except attitude. That doesn't get far with me. You said you "knew" what Regan would have done because of what he has done in the past. That is assuming the past dictates the future, whether you use the word dictate or not. Childish and pathetic.

Listen very carefully: Russia invading Ukraine was not justified. I cited the reasons they did it, not as justification but as fact. Again, you seem to have a real issue understanding simple language. Everyone else seems to understand it, but not you. You are.....special....

My feelings have nothing to do with what is true and what isn't. Nothing, apart from the belief that you are mentally challenged, has anything to do with my feelings. If that is all you have to rely on, you lost this a long time ago.

You are obviously afraid and trying to cover it with insults. You are that cowardly wimp in the bar pissing himself while trying to look like a last call tough guy. Right about now you are laughing thinking there is no way I could know how you really feel, it just suits my purpose to assume you are afraid. The sad part is the irony of that act is completely lost on you...

If you are intending to respond to me, don't bother. I am done with your childish bs. If you do respond its just to satisfy your need for attention, but you wont get it from me. I have wasted enough time on you already.

Also, one more time for the record, in plain English you won't understand: my feelings have nothing to do with nor do they change any statement of fact; I do not believe Russia invading Ukraine was justified. These two things have not and will not change, no matter how desperately you need it to be true.

originally posted by: Emelius
What if your neighbor turned off the water to your house, then you HAD to invade to get it turned back on, not to mention your neighbor was an asshole who kept shooting bullets into your yard, as well. Thats why Russia took Crimea.

It must be good to live in such a simple and superficial world.

In the real world. Russia invaded Crimea because they could, they were greedy and, to the shame of the civilised world, they calculated that they would get away with it.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Ukraine is a unitary state multi-party constitutional republic. Similar to the US except we have a Federal level whereas Ukraine is one state so no Federal republic. What Zelensky did was akin to the democrats in the US shutting down any television station that broadcasts conservative news, then seize the assets of republican leaders. It would never be allowed, is undemocratic, and a threat to the nation and its government.

Oh, that's nice. Still doesn't give Russia a reason to invade and that's discounting the 2014 invasion of Crimea which happened before Zelensky for the chronologically challenged.

No, you never used the word dictate.

Good on you for admitting you made things up again.

Oh, and it's 'Reagan'. He would have 100% been opposed to Russia's invasion and would have been thoroughly disgusted with the Russian apologists and their sad sack excuses.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: JinMI

US bio labs is it now?

Yes, do try to keep up. That is what the whole establishment left here in the US is protecting, their bioweapons labs. We have threads on this and you may have participated if you think back.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: JinMI

US bio labs is it now?

Yes, do try to keep up. That is what the whole establishment left here in the US is protecting, their bioweapons labs. We have threads on this and you may have participated if you think back.

Threads on ATS you say.

Must be true then.

originally posted by: JinMI

I most certainly agree, and our own state sponsored corporate media is no different.

Even still, there is a grain of truth to their allegations in some instances

If there was a grain of truth then their allegations would not just evaporate away after a while and we would see more and more proof overtime, but that doesn't happen as they move on to the next hyperbole. I'm also not saying that the US doesn't do somewhat of the same thing, but then we are not talking about the US invading another country here.

Nulin was concerned about those bio labs. Do we agree?

If yes, do you think shes concerned about those bio labs as they pertain to livestock and agriculture?

A level 2 lab could have some nasty diseases like anthrax, and Ukraine in the past has had issues with anthrax as example, so yes there is concerns about these labs losing power, people looting, getting blown up etc etc.

And while russia was supplying the Donbass, we opened up to selling/giving Ukraine arms.

Once again we are talking Russa here... Russia claims they are helping Donbas because of the war there that they financed. Then Russia blows the whole area to dust...lol But like all their claims they don't say anything about Donbas anymore... They moved on to other reasons just like the US bioweapons labs and a Nazi behind every tree.

BTW there are no more young men in Donbas as Russia conscripted them all to fight and die now.

a reply to: Xtrozero

If there was a grain of truth then their allegations would not just evaporate away after a while and we would see more and more proof over time, but that doesn't happen as they move on to the next hyperbole. I'm also not saying that the US does somewhat of the same thing, but then we are not talking about the US invading another country here.

No, we are not talking about that here. However we are currently in and just again bombed Syria.

As I said, the biolabs are real.
The nazi contingent are real.
NATO expansion east is real.

I, you, the US, NATO, everyone else on earth may thing it's not legitimate. But it's not the rest of the world who invaded Ukraine. And to think they did it on a whim, like many here are suggesting is simply willful ignorance and a repainting of history.

A level 2 lab could have some nasty diseases like anthrax, and Ukraine in the past has had issues with anthrax as example, so yes there is concerns about these labs losing power, people looting, getting blown up etc etc.

Right. See the hypocrisy here? The US is concerned about the labs, and Russia is concerned with those labs. However that's not what you said earlier.

Well, that isn't what Russa said, now is it. But what you are suggesting is after the fall of the USSR the US over about a decade provided about 21 million to Ukraine to upgrade old USSR labs to actually use as level 2 labs that they needed for areas like livestock. So, there is actually no point here to discuss other than it was just another hyperbole by the Russians as to why they attacked. All this is not a debatable area for me.

Once again we are talking Russa here... Russia claims they are helping Donbas because of the war there that their financed. Then Russia blows the whole area to dust...lol But like all their claims they don't say anything about Donbas anymore... They moved on to other reasons just like the US bioweapons labs and a Nazi behind every tree.

BTW there are no more young men in Donbas as Russia conscripted them all to fight and die now.

Russia can claim that they are invading because the moon is a different flavor of cheese. Fact is, they invaded, and the reasons, believed or not matter to them and have mattered to them and no one gave a F because..russia.

Forgive me for not believing any death tolls or rhetoric coming from the front lines. I don't believe any of it.

originally posted by: JinMI

As I said, the biolabs are real.
The nazi contingent are real.
NATO expansion east is real.

I'm not debating they are not real, but once again what you are saying here is not what Russia said. We need to understand that Russia creates an illusion of truth by using some benign fact and turning it into some faked hyperbole narrative.

We need to get back to the whole cause and effect as why NATO expanded that we have talked about over and over.

I, you, the US, NATO, everyone else on earth may thing it's not legitimate. But it's not the rest of the world who invaded Ukraine. And to think they did it on a whim, like many here are suggesting is simply willful ignorance and a repainting of history.

Russia invaded Ukraine because they thought it would be just another walk in the park event with the Ukrainians just rolling over. Their mistake...

They want Ukraine because it was the diamond of all the older satellite counties. 44 million people, massive natural gas reserves, gate way to EU as both economics and militarily, old Russia, massive access to the Black Sea, massive farming capabilities so on and so forth. Was not a whim, but a calculated event.

Right. See the hypocrisy here? The US is concerned about the labs, and Russia is concerned with those labs. However that's not what you said earlier.

The difference is Russia called them US bioweapons labs. Lol, do you not see the difference. BTW EVERY country has bio labs...

Forgive me for not believing any death tolls or rhetoric coming from the front lines. I don't believe any of it.

You will one day...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm not debating they are not real, but once again what you are saying here is not what Russia said. We need to understand that Russia creates an illusion of truth by using some benign fact and turning it into some faked hyperbole narrative.

We need to get back to the whole cause and effect as why NATO expanded that we have talked about over and over.

As does our own media but thats not the point.

Point being, they didnt exist....until they did.
Check the date.

The difference is Russia called them US bioweapons labs. Lol, do you not see the difference. BTW EVERY country has bio labs...

Sure, hyperbole. Fun with semantics. The same semantics when people call javelins "defensive weapons."

Im not a terribly smart man but my nose works and I can smell BS.

You will one day...

Youd think that all the aggregated logic as it pertains to media would be applied.

Russiagate
Ukrainegate
Jussie
Covington kids
HRC
WMDs
Nascar nooses
Etc etc and on and on.


But this time....its somehow different?


Did you have a chance to look into Nulin? I think youll find her and her husband interesting and it may help you understand my perspective even if we do not agree.

originally posted by: JinMI

Point being, they didnt exist....until they did.
Check the date.

Define what exist? Are you saying "foreign military biological laboratories" or are you saying the typical level 2 lab that is actually very common. I used to fly bio and chemical weapons in the Air Force and the US has very limited and define areas in the world where they have them and Ukraine would be one stupid ass place to even think to go in that direction. We also don't need to do it, its not like we are lacking in labs.

Sure, hyperbole. Fun with semantics. The same semantics when people call javelins "defensive weapons."

All fun until you start a full-scale war over your fun semantics. I really think you just like to debate and don't really care where it goes.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Define what exist? Are you saying "foreign military biological laboratories" or are you saying the typical level 2 lab that is actually very common. I used to fly bio and chemical weapons in the Air Force and the US has very limited and define areas in the world where they have them and Ukraine would be one stupid ass place to even think to go in that direction. We also don't need to do it, its not like we are lacking in labs.

Point being, again, bio labs in Ukraine officially didnt exist....then they did after they were exposed.

If we dont need them, then why our taxpayer dollars used to fund them? Especiialy when they didnt officially exist!?

All fun until you start a full-scale war over your fun semantics. I really think you just like to debate and don't really care where it goes.

Again, my point is this war didnt have to happen and part of me really thinks the west wanted the war to happen.

And yes, I do love a debate, especially with people smarter and with more life experience than myself.

It allows me to have my ideas challenged and preconcieved notions laid bare for challenging.

It was through those ends that lead me to my positions, as unpopular as they may be.

Seeing how deep the Biden family is embedded and dependent upon Ukraine notwithstanding, also the neocons like Graham and McCain lining their pockets as well. Nulin and her husband with a nepotistic grasp on Ukraines economy through that power.

Last but not least, an and to Ukraines and Russias plebs being used as cannon fodder.

originally posted by: JinMI

Point being, again, bio labs in Ukraine officially didnt exist....then they did after they were exposed.

I disagree, they became a topic of discussion when Russia went full retard over the whole US bioweapon lab BS. Bio labs are common in most countries with like 85,000 around the world, so I fail to see your point here. The US has 1500+ level 2+ labs, 8 are level 4.

Again, my point is this war didnt have to happen and part of me really thinks the west wanted the war to happen.

I think where we differ in thought is I believe the invasion of Ukraine was inevitable based on Putin's timeline to get as many former satellite states back under Mother Russia as he can.

I do agree we have some good talks...