Who is Satan to you?

Celine Dion...seriously.

originally posted by: boozo
Satan is probably the most deceptive "Wolf in sheep's clothing".

He is the father of lies. The lies people build their world around and find out later, it was a lie.


Satan loves human pleasures and was willing to sacrifice it all to experience what humans were given by God. The fallen ones were jealous of man and our ability to be as Gods by just being born was how I read the bible. We all are given the ability to be like God, and we choose to be somewhere between saintly and pure demonic hell cats instead. Sacrifice is personal not of some baby you stole from your sister or neighbor.

We make personal sacrifices to be humble and kind like Jesus demonstrated in sharing the kingdom with the lowest of the low. Satan tells us that it ultimately is wrong to not pursue your fleshly desires that might include harming others. Allister Crowley, a self appointed Satan worshipper said "do as you will". That will includes hurting others, then fine. I am not fine with pain to another unless it is stopping them from doing so to an innocent person. That is not the message we were to take to the people. In so doing, we cannot love them as we love ourselves.

Satan means we should Hate your neighbor and sacrifice his kids and your own too, IMO.

a reply to: kwakakev

My insight on the topic is that "Satan" is everything that is material. Satan is all things solid, matter itself. Satan is the material manifestation of thought.

"God" is pure thought. God/pure thought is Satan's creator.

Maybe we can agree something is going on there. I believe that for humans hell for the individual, it will be YOUR soul ceases to be while those who chose to love their neighbor and try to do the things to fulfill that get a new body like in Avatar after a short stay in some kind of purgatory. "A new heaven, and new earth". Plus we "will be changed in the twinkling of an eye".

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
As some of you may know, a few years back I did a survey of the KJV Bible to see if the doctrine of "hell" stood up to scrutiny. It's too long to go into here, beside being off topic, but "hell" did not stand up to close examination.

Along the way, I also took a little time to examine "Satan." It was a bit off my path, but what I did see made me suspect he was as much a construct as "hell." My big takeaway was that "Satan" is NOT the ruler of "hell." I could find no connection between the two until the Revelation, and then only because "Satan" was tossed into the Lake of Fire, which btw, is not ID'd as "hell" in the KJV...it is only assumed to be.

What the Lake of Fire is, as I found in a subsequent word study, is the Presence of God. Fire is closely associated with Him and His surroundings in the Bible. We see it from the Burning Bush to the tongues of Fire on Pentecost. This knowledge leads me to see the popular conception of a "hell" of fire, and ruled over by Satan, as being close to blasphemy.

If you disagree, all I can say is - do your homework. I spent over two years on mine.

originally posted by: Justoneman
Satan means we should Hate your neighbor and sacrifice his kids and your own too, IMO.

Funny that those two things are among Yahweh's commandments.

Deuteronomy 7:2

2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them (the Canaanites), then you must devote them to complete destruction (including women, children, and even the livestock). You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them.

Exodus 13:12–14

12 that you shall set apart to the Lord all that open the womb, that is, every firstborn that comes from an animal which you have; the males shall be the Lord’s. 13 But every firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb; and if you will not redeem it, then you shall break its neck. And all the firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.

a reply to: Hecate666

The Serpent is admired for it's wisdom by humans and ancient civilisations apart from abrahamic religions.

The Snake does represent lots of different things for me, some good, some bad.

Thoughts of the Rainbow Serpent that help started life in some Aboriginal lore sounds like a very majestic being. The snake does look like an important evolutionary step as a basic reptile design that expanded into the age of the dinosaurs. We likely would not be here without all that to set the stage for the mammals to emerge.

Snakes can also be sneaky as they approach, fast and dangerous when they strike. The forked tongue can symbolize a lot of the lies and double speak going on. How did St Patrick drive all the snakes out of Ireland? Just what went on with the snake and Eve at Eden?

I respect snakes in the wild as with all the life out there that has made it this far from whatever reasons. Prefer to just leave them alone as we each go our own way.

a reply to: ltrz2025

I can't debate myopia. Nor will I, much.... You have very individualistic and fringe views that make a conversation over the consensus version of anything pointless.

Like the first point was "Nondualism is an oxymoron". Lost me there. I can't debate that. I could, but no amount of deference to Advaita Vedanta or The Sefirot is going to sway that opinion. And it would not be beneficial to myself to engage in that exchange. It would be me constantly defending every statement from a "No, youre wrong" handicap. There is no way to gain an advantageous position under those circumstances, even if I have a more valid opinion.

You're mind is made up and I have no interest in changing it. So im copping out with that answer to not be drawn into this.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
As some of you may know, a few years back I did a survey of the KJV Bible to see if the doctrine of "hell" stood up to scrutiny. It's too long to go into here, beside being off topic, but "hell" did not stand up to close examination.

Along the way, I also took a little time to examine "Satan." It was a bit off my path, but what I did see made me suspect he was as much a construct as "hell." My big takeaway was that "Satan" is NOT the ruler of "hell." I could find no connection between the two until the Revelation, and then only because "Satan" was tossed into the Lake of Fire, which btw, is not ID'd as "hell" in the KJV...it is only assumed to be.

What the Lake of Fire is, as I found in a subsequent word study, is the Presence of God. Fire is closely associated with Him and His surroundings in the Bible. We see it from the Burning Bush to the tongues of Fire on Pentecost. This knowledge leads me to see the popular conception of a "hell" of fire, and ruled over by Satan, as being close to blasphemy.

If you disagree, all I can say is - do your homework. I spent over two years on mine.

Baptism by fire?

Yes, I recently read from old scripture not included in the modern day Bible(s) that Hell is not what we think it is and we only need the love of others to help us escape it. Can the clutches of Satan also be that easy to escape?

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025
Like the first point was "Nodualism is an oxymoron". Lost me there. I can't debate that.

I said that "nondualistic religion" is an oxymoron.... If you are going to quote me, at least quote me correctly. Then I explained that it is so because all religions are based in duality. So, there can't be a nondualistic religion. It's impossible. Then, yes, you are clearly lost. No worries, I don't expect you to debate. I use wrong statements as a platform to help refute some of the erroneous ideas that are around here. You are doing a good job, thanks love.

a reply to: ltrz2025

I could also spell it right. Freaking typos.

Nondualistic Religion = Nondualism.

I won't misquote you this time:

Then I explained that it is so because all religions are based in duality

I can't debate myopia.

no amount of deference to Advaita Vedanta or The Sefirot is going to sway that opinion.

But here's a link you can scoff at and make me defend for some reason...

embodied.bestdevserver.com...

Satan? Rings a bell. Wasn't that this reptilian dude who committed crimes against humanity and as punishment got locked below earth and has been pissed off ever since? Man, those were the days! Whatever happened to him?

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025

Nondualistic Religion = Nondualism.

No amount of deference to Advaita Vedanta or The Sefirot is going to sway that opinion.

Oh lord, the things that I have to explain to this child...

1. A religion separates the Believer from God. That''s the very nature of dualism.

2. Real Vedanta is not a religion. You and Brahman are ONE. It's your ignorance that makes you lose sight. People like you give westerners a bad name in the eyes of Hindus. Do them a favour and stop speaking in their name.

3. Sefirot, as the Kabbalah, are ridiculous. First, they are not original, they are quite modern inventions, and is badly regurgitated metaphysics stolen from others. TYPICAL... just like the Old Testament. Then, the Keter, the Binah and the Cochma, represent the TRINITY... so even Christianism is far more sophisticated than this crap.

PS: not being mean, but you certainly have a skill to be wrong in everything you say, I really admire how good you are at that. keep doing mistakes, it'll help people realize how wrong your ideas are.

PS 2: keep the links to yourself, differently from you, my understanding does not reside on someone else's opinions, or an internet site. I grew up a long time ago.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Well please stop explaining. If you were my religious precepts guru I'd have a jumbled mess of bias, logical fallacy, ludicrous presupposition, and a nauseatingly stubborn view of my own wisdom.

a reply to: kwakakev

Could it also be, that the snake is one of the few things in nature where that wave pattern and a very simple stator rotor principal is visible, so the snake stood in for a very fundamental pattern of reality for a very long time?

You'll see the Fibonacci sequence, and helixi in any slightly mathematical culture.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: ltrz2025
Well please stop explaining. If you were my religious precepts guru I'd have a jumbled mess of bias, logical fallacy, ludicrous presupposition, and a nauseatingly stubborn view of my own wisdom.

LOL. Ok, last message, out of fun, because now you are just simply trying to attack me personally and your intellectuality basically collapsed. I get it, it's hard to say: "you are right"....

You make all these personal claims about me (like if they were somewhat relevant at all for the debate), but with no arguments or evidence of any sort, just as your opinions. Opinions to which you are forever entitled, of course. Although, beware that according to psychology 101, by the very nature of projection, these unfounded opinions talk more about yourself than about me. Oops.

Then, rest assured, my explanations are clearly not for you. XD

a reply to: kwakakev

To me Satan is the angel Christian lore tells us got really upset with God when he decided to put humans 'above' angels. Whatever that really means, since angels allegedly don't have free will, yet he had enough to rebel? Or how humans could ever be above angels which are spending their lifes in front of God, but not many humans could ever get anywhere close?
A lot of things don't make sense when it comes to Satan.
Now in modern times it's basically not much more than a catch all label for everything Christians don't agree with.
It's a little amusing when they identify Satan as 'Ruler of Earth' because: well that's us.
We claim God values us higher than everything else. Yet we somehow got seperated from God.
So I'm 85% sure we are Satan.

a reply to: kwakakev

The corporeal body.

Satan?
Well, it's hard to tell, ya know?
He does't want you to believe in him, he honestly does not care.
His main focus is that you not to believe in God.
He will tell you what you want to hear.
He may even offer you things.
He is the little voice in your mind telling you to do something you know is not right.
He even rationalizes it for you, "it's only one time", "no one will ever know", "it's just a little thing", "why don't you do it, put you first for once" and so on.
His only care is that you turn from God.
That is all.

originally posted by: ltrz2025
a reply to: Hiram33

First, if you have any type of enlightenment, you wouldn't be making this "personal". I'm not talking about "your" path, I couldn't care less about your "path". Read my words and find the concepts, instead of making it an "insult" against you. Then, you talk of the "ancients" like if they were a race thinking all the same, lol. No buddy, true nondualism was always only cherished by the few, today and 2.000 years ago. Average people, now and then, are always busy procuring food and taking care of the children, they have no time for that.

Then you don't even know how to use the proper words, because the word illusion encompasses a mockery, or a deception. There is no such thing. The fact that you are ignorant or blind doesn't make the universe a "practical joke". Choose your words more wisely then. And nondualism, if you really understand what it means, can't EVER be a "goal", since it is the very nature of the universe. Maybe your goal is to "not be as lost as you are", but that's just your personal situation, not of the universe. Stop trying to define the universe through your lost human eyes and mind. That's the real step 1.

The rest you wrote is simply Enochian dualistic brainwashing gnosticism, which is a childish game when it comes to real spirituality. You claim to reject dualism, but then talk about "falling into dimensions", lol. You still have a long way to go, and yes, you'll need luck!

See?
There you go again.
You make personal attacks and when someone comes back with one, you play victim.
Enlightened indeed.
What a joke.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Can the clutches of Satan also be that easy to escape?

John the Baptist said, "Behold - the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world."

Paul the Apostle said, "He who is dead is separated from his sins."

He also asked, "Who can separate us from the Love of God?"

It is the Law of the Jubilee in action: At a set time, which no man knows, our debts are forgiven, and we go free from our master Sin, to return to our property and inheritance.

Easy peasy.

"Satan" does not have a chance.