Did Hynek & Vallée Play a Part in Driving Paul Bennewitz Insane?

a reply to: karl 12

Did you read that new book with his charlatan co author. "Best kept secret" or whatever....

Just wondering.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

No I absolutely didn't mate and Randle has done some good work on that - it doesn't detract from the previous post on the content of his earlier work (which is historically verifiable).

Saw you came at Hanson with the same mindset - completely disregarded his actual research due to personality issues.

If that's the case, then all crackpot debunkersl and pseudoskeptic whackjobs should be thrown out of court as well.

At the end of the day I suppose it's all a great excuse to focus on human weakness and never address the actual core phenomenon.

The same happens in Sasquatch research.

a reply to: karl 12

By the 1880s such leading folklorists and anthropologists as Sabine Baring-Gould, Joseph Jacobs, Andrew Lang, and Sir John Rhŷs were examining oral testimony on the nature and the customs of the “little folk” and the historical and archaeological remains left by them. In the pre-industrial societies of the 1840s the question 'do you believe in fairies?' would habe baffled people because everybody did, and not believing in them was simply unthinkable.

As you probably know, the English word ‘fairy’ comes to us, via the Old French faerie, from the Latin fata, meaning
‘fate’. This means the roots are with the classical Greek Fates, who were believed to control the fate and destiny of the human race.

Today there is a more intriguing superstition: the belief that we are free of superstition. Human biology is hard-wired into his DNA and his neural setup, hence an intimacy with the non-human is a fundamental human trait. Even in 1992 Terence McKenna described imaginary worlds as ‘elf-infested spaces’, much as Vallee talks about alien-infested interdimensional spaces.

Vallee did indeed make the point that interpretations of UFO sightings and alien contacts in terms of the extraterrestrial hypothesis are terribly narrow views of a much larger and older tapestry. But he said nothing about why this is so. Said nothing about human consciousness and the need to believe in fairies, dwarfs, aliens, and other non-human beings, a need that arises from the very human biological nature.

His 'crime' is that he forgot it was Jung the first to already state this very same thing, and he did in 1959, quite before Vallee ever knew about fairies-alien connection. And his crime, too, extends to the fact he did not understand what Jung really concluded: that there is a need to belief in non-human intelligences if you do not want to become mad. That's precisely Jung's main thesis, that human beings need to belief in angels, fairies, and aliens in order to escape the madness of being the only creature which is perfectly aware of his own death.

And this is the real problem here: to be able to discern when we are in front of a real UFO, and when we are just in front of an existential urge to believe. Both things do co-exist and intermingle with each other; you cannot separate beliefs from objective reality. You just cannot separate facts from beliefs. That's why being human is so difficult. More difficult than being an alien or a fairy.

As I said, today the superstition is the belief that we are free of superstition. We are not. Neither you, not us.

a reply to: Direne

Almost like you had that post pre authored and ready to go mate.

How on earth can you talk about objective reality when you abjectly refuse to address it?

a reply to: karl 12

The debate about whether there is anything like an objective reality or whether everything is just an illusion created by your consciousness is central to today's philosophy. Most likely, believing in the existence of an objective reality is also a superstition (as quantum mechanics posits).

My main concern is not what UFO's are, but rather what they are not.

Anyway, karl 12, let me tell you I side with Mr. Bennewitz rather than with Vallee, because Mr. Bennewitz's final fate was certainly due to his beliefs, while Doty and Vallee have no beliefs at all other than making money out of others' lunacy. If objective reality were to exist, Doty et al. should be in jail for inducing suicide regardless of whether fairies exist or not.

a reply to: karl 12

Saw you came at Hanson with the same mindset - completely disregarded his actual research due to personality issues.

Respectfully Karl, I have zero interest in Hanson and his research.

Now back to what the thread is about.

Bennewitz was always dancing on the edge of sanity, but Branton and Bishop took him one step above with his alledgedly Dulce channelled story, and later disinformator Richard Doty feeded his insanity to the max.

A pretty good report, IMO. Some things I haven't heard, but it seems to be accurate as far as I know.

This is the kind of stuff they need to play at those congressional hearings to educate the masses.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Paul was already off the deep end before he went to the Air Force. He was convinced that America was being invaded by evil extra-terrestrials. In his own "Project Beta" report. He was talking about a weapon he'd developed [and intended to patent] to combat the malevolent aliens.

Here's a few snippets.



View in full screen mode

The crazy messages about the aliens needing our water was also a subplot of the sci-fi series 'V'. Which aired a few years later.

a reply to: mirageman

MM……your post is interesting to say the least. Note what I’ve highlighted below of what Bennewitz states….



I thought to myself……what if he did file and eventually get a patent for his weapon?

It’s possible that the patent of the weapon was issued……and it is disguised as a patent for a auditory nerves medical testing device…..the true title of the patent being “APPARATUS AND METHOD FOR PRODUCING AND USING DIRECTIONAL, ELECTRICAL AND MAGNETIC FIELDS”

It would make sense in his state of mind to be covert and yet overt about the details of his weapon in a publicly released patent.

Below is the first page of Bennewitz’s Patent. Bare in mind as highlighted above….he produced a “small” device in his research and engineering…….he goes on to say if it was “full size” it would be effective against the flying disks. The device as patented is small!

Notice the location and year of the patent….it’s in the timeframe of the Bennewitz affair.

Also….as we’ve discussed in general, on previous threads…….at least in my opinion….any weapon that would take down a UFO would probably be a focused type radar or beam contraption. ……well the device as patent….rudimentarly fits that description….it’s a “Directional” device….notice the focused beam in the patent diagram on this 1st page. (It’s also labeled as Fig. 1 on the 2nd page of the linked patent)


Source: A Bennewitz’s weapon patent..in disguise?



Anyone looking at this patent might want to download it for possible prosperity and or further super sizing development 🤓🧐😉

During the years of the patent timeframe from the filing the patent to the full granting of the patent…..Bennewitz was preoccupied with Flying Disks and Aliens and measures to combat them. I hardly think that his mind was on development of a medical device for his company…..but to make his weapon public, he had to patent the weapon under the guise of a medical testing device, as written by weaving in the claims of the medical applications and associated verbiage.

Could it be Bennewitz’s flying disk weapon has been in plain sight all this time? ……It’s plausible….imo.

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

The device as patented is small

No. The description of the device in the patent talks about a small device, which does not mean there is a tangible device at all. Nobody can patent an idea: this is absolutely forbidden. You can only patent tangible things or, and this is crucial here, a fully detailed and documented description of a potential tangible object.

The patent you linked to describes a potential device, not a real one. Whether it works or not is not the business of the patent office. On a side note, the device described in the linked patent has no chance of ever working, as it has three serious flaws that prevent it from functioning. Most patents relate to objects that, in reality, do not work or cannot work on a large scale, which explains why only a few patents end up becoming real working machines or algorithms implementations (mind: algorithms cannot be patented either; only their implementation can.)

All right, here we go with a comment quoting from mms link here web.archive.org...

First is a refutation of the bogus claim by AFOSI that security concerns underlined their motives in dealing with Bennewitz.
Right now, I can't upload that document and their too long to quote but go to pages 108-9 and 110 and read. These pages comment on the bogus claim of national security.
web.archive.org... go to pages 108-109-110

The second point, which I quote from below, deals with the fact that Bennewitz was likely recruited by AFOSI---first surreptitiously, then openly--from much earlier than people think.
web.archive.org... Go to pages 110-111-112

In July 1979 Bennewitz began taking movie film of lights in the sky and recording alleged radio
emanations (but not messages) from UFO’s, which he claimed he could “D.F.” (direction-find) to
prove that he was tracking UFO’s up to 60 miles distance.49 In August 1979, there was an informal
convocation of UFOlogists from around the country that converged on Albuquerque to meet with a
Japanese television crew from Nippon TV, and to meet among themselves. Bennewitz networked
with other UFOlogists and cattle mute researchers, and almost certainly came to the attention of
talent spotters in AFOSI counterintelligence at this time. They no doubt assessed him as especially
susceptible to discreditable UFO storytelling but also as an effective promoter and networker who
could spread the crazy stories to influential figures in the fringes of UFOlogy. Soon thereafter the
“alien” messages began.
111
MUFON Symposium Proceedings
Bennewitz claimed that on January 27, 1980, he received his first radio communication from
the aliens. This was, he asserted, shortly after the U.S. armed forces fought a battle with the aliens at
the underground “alien US base” near Archuleta Peak, some 4.5 miles northwest of Dulce, NM. He
claimed that an AF security officer was even present at this historic “milestone,” giving him guidance, the Commander of Kirtland AFB/Manzano Base’s 1608th Security Police Squadron, Major
Ernest Edwards. Bennewitz told AF Intelligence by letter50:
“Major Edwards has witnessed closely all events throughout including establishment of the
first communications with the Alien since Jan. 27, 1980. He has unofficially provided valuable
logistic judgment as the Project progressed.”
This historic event would actually be AFOSI beginning its beaming of crackpot “alien” messages to Bennewitz, perhaps from the townhouse across the street or perhaps from the base
(Bennewitz lived close to the base fence51). The stories fed to Bennewitz grew crazier and more
complex until the whole scenario recited above by Moore was fully developed, including the fake
Project Aquarius run by NASA according to Bennewitz (and according to Doty as we will see below).

What this tells us are two basic facts that refute distortions in the common understanding of this episode:

Number one, the “security” concerns that AFOSI claims were behind their hoaxing effort are without merit.

Number two, Bennewitz was the subject of this disinformation scheme much earlier than is commonly thought.

The above information from the link supports this with good evidence.

For what it’s worth……

Source: Friday, April 29, 2022 Bill Moore and UFO Disinformation Accusations



…………….”Moore's accusation about Jacques Vallee never caught hold, but as of this writing, the rumor about Hynek as a disinformation delivery boy still continues to circulate in print. The "evidence" for both is insubstantial — stories from Bill Moore.”……

—————————————————————————————————————————————————— ———-

…..”That was the first I'd head of these accusations, but Moore had said something similar six years earlier. Bill Moore was interviewed on Don Ecker's radio show, UFOs Tonite! on June 11, 1994. At 14:55 into the show, Bill Moore said: "There were a lot of other ufologists involved with this and I have never discussed this before… One of those others was J. Allen Hynek, who did covert work, who knew what he was doing. And he was very much involved in one phase of the disinformation operation that was used in Bennewitz affair… Hynek was part of this operation. He was under contract to the Air Force and I have a copy of that contract in case anybody wants to contest this."

A general discussion of the Bennewitz story followed. After a commercial break, Ecker asked him about alluding to other prominent ufologists involved in disinformation in Moore’s 1989 MUFON speech. At 35:00 into the recording Moore said:

"Yes, there were others, and one of them I just named off-mike and that will come up in Focus. And I'm sure that's going to be very controversial, because that individual has written a number of books. … it's about time some of these other people had to answer for some of the things they were doing."

Seventeen years later, Don Ecker rebroadcast the show. Discussing what Moore told him on and off-mike, Don Ecker wrote in the Paracast forum in 2011:

"I had [Bill Moore] on my radio show... he claimed that J. A. Hynek and Jacques Vallee were government assets. (Much like he said he was.) When I challenged Moore on that he stated on the record that he could bring me proof to another show and I could verify it on the air... I agreed and invited him back... I never had another contact again with Moore."

Printing the Legend

Bill Moore withdrew from ufology, and had virtually vanished except for his occasional letters published in Saucer Smear. But there was one notable exception, and it involved his accusation about Hynek. In Greg Bishop's 2005 book about the Paul Bennewitz story, Project Beta, Bishop said this about Moore in the acknowledgments: "[I] thank him for his support, assistance, and longtime friendship. This book would have been impossible without his generous cooperation and incredible patience..."

Hynek is introduced into the Bennewitz with this allegation:
"After the close of Project Bluebook in 1969, [J. Allen Hynek] had reportedly continued to receive about $5000 a year... one of thousands of academics the government keeps on the payroll in case they might be needed—sort of like egghead sleeper agents."

Then came the story of Hynek delivering the alien message decoder:
"The sole source for the following information is Bill Moore... Moore claims that he met with Hynek at the 1982 Mutual UFO Network convention. [They took a break at a bar down the street.] As they sat down, Moore brought up the subject of Bennewitz. They had a couple of beers... then Hynek dropped the bomb: Sometime in the midsummer of 1981, he had delivered the computer program (and apparently a whole new computer) to Bennewitz at the request of the Air Force, but did not tell Bennewitz this when he delivered the setup."

Moore also told Bishop about Jacques Vallee being involved (possibly designing the alien decoder computer program). However, out of his veneration of Vallee, Bishop chose to not to publish that accusation. The book contained no mention of Vallee, except for citing Messengers of Deception in the bibliography.”…………………..

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

From your Blue Blurry Lines link, emphasis mine:

…I personally know that Hynek was still under contract as a USAF consultant at the time, and Vallee had very close ties with the CIA and others (although what his obligations to them may have been, I do not know). For those still hoping to uncover some hidden treasure in this whole mess, here is a good place to begin…

I’d say while it’s questionable how much Moore might have been told and how much he just inferred about Hynek & Vallee in relation to Bennewitz, I do think he probably believes his assertions.

Further, I believe he’s being straight and right on in the above bolded statement. Hynek being long gone is a pretty cold trail…but looky who’s still near & dear to UFO operations infested with IC players.

I mean, I’m in the camp that considers Vallee as one of the most important thinkers/contributors to ufology. A few of his books are and will always be on my bookshelves.

At the same time I came to grips with him being an asset long ago. Vallee as a remote viewer also brings in some interesting questions that might be related to this topic.


Bill Moore and UFO Disinformation Accusations

a reply to: The GUT

I’ve listened to the entire Moore lecture and came away to realize that his assertions of POSITION 9 @02:43:30 ….makes sense.

What was true back then, is true today in UFOlogy. Only today’s word for it is Dysfunctional. In a general sense, in my opinion, UFOlogy is Dysfunctional. No one, in my point of view, can be trusted.

There’s a part of his lecture, and I’m paraphrasing, he said to the effect…..to become a UFOlogist, all you have to do is write a book, put out a newsletter, be on T.V..

I suspect that some folks would really not know what their talking about and yet are UFOlogist’s.

Baseball, America’s past time was once a respectable sport like other sports…..but then it and others became “Entertainment” with high priced player’s, controversial, mass merchandising…etc. it ruined the sport.

UFOlogy…..is now along the same lines….imo.

A percentage of what Bill had to say was reasonable to me in terms of the UFOlogy field.

To answer the topic question…..I would say ….No….about Hynek and Vallee……not as much as Doty had his influence on Bennewitz.

Would you trust somebody with these cold lifeless black eyes?


👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Indeed, if we had a trail, Vallee would be exonerated for lack of evidence, and Hynek, too, probably since all we've got is a known deceiver's testimony. Not enough to convict.


Though suspicion is justified.

Not to get too literal, but...In reality, there’s no such thing as a Ufologist. It’s a wholly colloquial term. The proper term is ufology researcher. That’s what we all here are at best. Dolan, Howe, TDL, Bill Moore, all of them too who wrote books, are nothing more than what we here are: ufology researchers to some degree or another.

There’s no credited educational institution that certifies a ufologist, as there is for a biologist, urologist, psychologist, or any ologist who can be certified by educational institutions.

So, one doesn’t have to publish any book or go on a podcast to be something that doesn’t exist, just to some degree have read or studied the field.


colloquial
/kəˈlōkwēəl/

adjective
1. (of language) used in ordinary or familiar conversation; not formal or literary.
"colloquial and everyday language"


One thing I would bet on, though, is if some wanted to create a ufology certificate or some kind of curriculum, I bet it might make a buck or two or three...and become a legitimate field of formal study. Maybe someone has done that, I don't know.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz

Not to get too literal, but...In reality, there’s no such thing as a Ufologist. It’s a wholly colloquial term. The proper term is ufology researcher. That’s what we all here are at best. Dolan, Howe, TDL, Bill Moore, all of them too who wrote books, are nothing more than what we here are: ufology researchers to some degree or another.

There’s no credited educational institution that certifies a ufologist, as there is for a biologist, urologist, psychologist, or any ologist who can be certified by educational institutions.

So, one doesn’t have to publish any book or go on a podcast to be something that doesn’t exist, just to some degree have read or studied the field.


colloquial
/kəˈlōkwēəl/

adjective
1. (of language) used in ordinary or familiar conversation; not formal or literary.
"colloquial and everyday language"


One thing I would bet on, though, is if some wanted to create a ufology certificate or some kind of curriculum, I bet it might make a buck or two or three...and become a legitimate field of formal study. Maybe someone has done that, I don't know.

I’ve mostly have known it as UFOlogy Investigator…… but it’s practically all the same to me.

Here is a UFOlogy Degree Program. I’m not sure if it’s a “Fly-By-Night” business.

Ufology Degree

I’m almost sure there are probably others……it’s all the fad now….and businesses are jumping on the UFO wagon.

👽

I think the tiredly repeated idea that the intelligence community infiltrates UFO groups to discredit them is simply childish. It also clashes with the idea that the IC would be interested in precisely the opposite: promoting belief in UFOs to distract attention from secret military projects. It is either one or the other, but not both.

In reality, the IC infiltrated ufological groups for a simple and honest reason: the defense of the national interest.

We often forget what is the context of the Bennewitz case. Bennewitz began to spread his ideas regarding Dulce Base to the UFOlogy community in the 80s, and it was in 1988 that he wrote his "Project Beta" paper detailing how the base might be successfully attacked. You will understand this rose a red flag for the IC. By the way, in that very same year of 1988 Vallee published a paper on remote viewing and computer communications (sic!).

And do not forget that in 1998 a French deranged guy who called himself Raël established the Order of Angels, an internal all-female sect whose members were kept off from society and tasked with training themselves to become, no less, the consorts of the Elohim.

A year before, on March 26, 1997, deputies of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department discovered in Rancho Santa Fe the bodies of the 39 active members of another group of deranged UFO believers: the Heaven's Gate sect. That happened four years after the Waco Ranch siege against yet another UFO cult: the Davidians.

So yes, the IC has and will always have a genuine interest in infiltrating those UFO groups in order to prevent their lunacy from escalating into a mass suicide. And you should, too. And yes, Bennewitz was on the IC's radar, and for a good reason. Vallee is no different; he was (and is) on the radar, too, because there is no much difference between the ideas of those Räelians, those Davidians, those Heaven's Gate followers and Vallee's ridicule beliefs in interdimensional beings.

More recently, it is Avi Loeb the one who draws the attention of the IC: we don't need another apostle of the ufological cult.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Thanks for that. I thought it might exist but didn’t look at it. Googling that's some kind of metaphysical college.

I think it can work in today's world, maybe take it as a minor since It might be hard to find work in the capitalist society. Maybe a government job would be available.