Did Hynek & Vallée Play a Part in Driving Paul Bennewitz Insane?

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Perhaps there IS a story in what you state……”As the story goes he left the Air Force after demotion in the late 80s and found a job as a police officer.”…..

What was the cause(s) of his demotion?

If I recall correctly, he was faking contact with communist agents when working in Germany (it was still divided back then). So was disciplined and demoted to working in the staff canteen back home. However I'd have to check that one out for the details.

Was there an internal investigation on him on how he treated Bennewitz and perhaps finding that Doty went far and beyond and maybe a little bit rogue on his methods used? Eventually contributing to driving Bennewitz insane?

Again I'd have to check the details. But there is confirmation on the web by the man himself that explains some but not all of this.

... in 1987, I was investigated by the FBI for the MJ-12 documents. They claimed, the UFO researchers claimed I released them, I created them. I went through an investigation by the FBI, I was cleared. I took a polygraph, I was cleared. And again in ’89, a different aspect of it became public.

The FBI called me, and the same agent who investigated me the first time, and said, “I hate to do this again, but I need to talk to you again about this.” And, and I was cleared obviously on that one. And then a third time that actually happened, when Bob Collins wrote the book, “Exempt From Disclosure.” He put something in that book, and they thought that information came from me.

So the FBI showed up at my doorstep with a search warrant and took my hard drive from my computer. And they looked at it. They came back later and told me it was clear, didn’t contain anything. And they paid me. They paid me $600 for another hard drive. They didn’t give me my hard drive back. And they did find out who released that to Robert Collins. That was somebody out of Los Alamos, and they went after that guy, but I didn’t do it....


Source

Although I don't know how much Doty can be trusted to tell the truth there. I know someone FOI'd it all about a decade ago and got very little back.

....Btw……where’s is there any PROOF, suicidal or otherwise, of what Bennewitz died of? An autopsy report?

He wasn't driven to suicide, his family had sought to protect him from ufology after his breakdown. Paul passed away in 2003.(aged 75).

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Cant Isaac Koi answer this in some way, he was busy dealing with Doty at one point? I recall bringing this up before. I would think Isaac may know more re the Doty situation than most?

I know nothing about Issac let alone any knowledge he has expressed about Doty….

I’m clueless on this point.

However, there is this soap box opera about Issac….

Erica Lukes, Ted Roe and the Attack on Isaac Koi

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a reply to: mirageman
……”He wasn't driven to suicide, his family had sought to protect him from ufology after his breakdown. Paul passed away in 2003.(aged 75).”…..


I should have clarified that Bennewitz dying by suicide was a rumor that I read somewhere long ago.

So if not by rumored suicide (as I read it long ago)..…. then by what specifically did he die from?

And could foul play be unequivocally ruled out?

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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Oh am well aware of that soap box drama Ophi. It was a sight for sore eye's, but then these UFO drama's usually are.

Very interesting chap is Isaac. Well he could chat about him if he wished. He did express some interests a while back but then went very silent.

A researcher, Alejandor Rojas, did receive a number of responses to his questions under FOI in Aug 2013 questioning Doty's activities. Including breaking and entering into a private citizen's home.

You can see the documents here :FOIA documents

However a brush off was given, citing legal exemptions :



The rest of the files have been posted earlier in the thread, and a summary would be.

Part 1

Internal OSI Form dated October 28, 1980 - “Alleged Sightings of Unidentified Aerial Lights in Restricted Test Range.” signed by Major Thomas Cseh

Confirms Bennewitz contacted Major Ernest E. Edwards. with evidence of threats against Manzano Weapons Storage area.”
October 26, 1980 Doty, along with Jerry Miller [Chief Scientific Advisor at Kirtland and former Blue Book investigator], visited Bennewitz’s residence to interview him. They looked at photographs, 8mm film, and recordings of of high levels of electrical magnetism emitted from the Manzano/Coyote Canyon area. Also noted Bennewitz had surveillance equipment pointed at the base. Concluding some type of “unidentified aerial objects” captured on the film, without determining whether they posed a threat. The electronic recording tapes were inconclusive. FTD [Foreign Technology Division] informed. But command “did not request an investigation at this time.”

Part 2

Further Internal OSI Form dated November 26, 1980 - “Alleged Sightings of Unidentified Aerial Lights in Restricted Test Range- signed by Major Thomas Cseh.

Details meeting on base on November 10, 1980, between Brigadier General William Brooksher, seven other officers, and Bennewitz. Bennewitz presented his film and photos of [what he thought] were alien spacecraft, and described how he believed he was in contact thealiens. Dr. Lehman, Director of the Air Force Weapons Laboratory at Kirtland, told Bennewitz to request a grant from the USAF.

November 17 1980 , Doty tells Bennewitz that AFOSI would not investigate the objects, and that they were “not in a position to evaluate the information and photographs.”

November 26, 1980, Doty received a phone call from Senator Harrison concerning AFOSI’s role in the investigation into Bennewitz's evidence. Schmitt advised AFOSI was not investigating the phenomenon and referred elsewhere. Schmitt and advised he would check with the Secretary of the Air Force to determine the correct USAF agency. Notes that Bennewitz had mulitple conversations with Senator Schmitt, who in turn advised Brigadier General Brooksher regarding Bennewitz’s sightings.

Part 3

The third part is an AFOSI communication date July 30, 1981 noting a meeting between Senator Pete Domenici and Doty & signed by Colonel Frank Huey.

IG [Inspector General] contacted AFOSI to advise them that Senator Domenici wanted to talk to Doty. Colonel Harvell approved and Domenici went directly to speak to Doty.

Domenici’s aide, Mr. Tijeros, claified that they wanted to know whether AFOSI had conducted a formal investigation of Bennewitz. Then informed that there was no formal investigation. Tijeros indicated that Senator Domenici will likely make no further inquiries into the matter

CONCLUSION

For reasons that are still not clear, the Air Force entertained Bennewitz in meetings, but did not conduct any formal investigation into his surveillance of the base or his alleged 'alien' evidence.

So what were they up to?

a reply to: mirageman

……”CONCLUSION

For reasons that are still not clear, the Air Force entertained Bennewitz in meetings, but did not conduct any formal investigation into his surveillance of the base or his alleged 'alien' evidence.”……

Yet, when just about all meeting attendees filtered out of the meeting due to lack of interest or having nothing to do with their own projects……those few or couple of people left….were able to secure funding at Bennewitz’s request to study the matter further without formal investigation?

Something is contradicting here.

Btw the FOIA link doesn’t work for me……but I get the gist from what you wrote.
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Anyway, the bottom line…..my question of precisely what was the official cause of Bennewitz’s death……and might there have been foul play involved…..goes unanswered and remains a mystery, at least for me.

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Here's the story about Doty's demotion....

a reply to: mirageman

Ah……ok. Thanks.

But the bottom statement under the highlighted says no one found any mention to that purported escapade



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a reply to: mirageman

So what were they up to?

According to this document below you posted earlier, the AF has a venomous grudge against Ufology going way back to the Keyhoe era and was directly responsible for the NICAP getting rid of him from the leadership position he had there.
link
In this disinformation scam, Doty often peddled lies that NASA was deeply into ufos and that the AF was frightened to death when Carter commissioned NASA to dig into ufos, which was at the same time 1977 when they started their famous DOTY /AFOSI-led disinformation scheme on UFOlogy.

About page 129 through the 130s is where some of this info is in this document.

The AF pulled out all the stops to stymie, harass and ruin NICAP under Keyhoe, including
apparently siccing the IRS on NICAP in 1958 to deny it the desperately needed tax-exemption on
phony grounds that NICAP’s anti-AF efforts were a prohibited political activity. The AF even
attempted to have Keyhoe brought up on bogus criminal charges of unauthorized possession of
classified information in 1960.91 NICAP for its part succeeded in getting the AF dragged in front of
Congressional hearings but only in closed-door meetings. The AF suffered many traumatic close
calls in averting public hearings, and NICAP was probably instrumental in making possible the one
public hearing that did occur in 1966, an historic event.
The AF eventually got its way in destroying NICAP and firing Keyhoe, just in time to coincide
with the AF’s closure of its public relations nightmare, Project Blue Book, announced on December
17, 1969. The AF did not want NICAP under Keyhoe to gloat over some victory against the AF with
the demise of Blue Book. The three AF-affiliated men who constituted all three of the members of
the Executive Committee of the NICAP Board of Governors peremptorily fired Keyhoe on December 3, 1969.

According to this, the AF loathed ufology, and that is likely why they did all of this and Moore( pun intended).

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Btw the FOIA link doesn’t work for me

Try it now. For some reason it just won't work on this site. So I've created a tinyURL instead.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Btw the FOIA link doesn’t work for me

Try it now. For some reason it just won't work on this site. So I've created a tinyURL instead.

Got it ……

Bottom line…..no tracking of info prior to the mid 1990’s

Legal exemptions….par for the course

Oh well

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originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: mirageman

Ah……ok. Thanks.

But the bottom statement under the highlighted says no one found any mention to that purported escapade

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Not exactly it says "One can find no mention of this reported Doty escapade in the M/S report...

That isn't just any report, it's an M/S report.

Meaning the Moore/Shandera spin on things.

a reply to: mirageman

Fast Food forward to 2022



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a reply to: peaceinoutz

.... the AF loathed ufology, and that is likely why they did all of this and Moore( pun intended).

We have to be careful as some people in the Air Force held contrary opinions. But ufologists, or those posing as ufologists, can present a lot of problems. Especially to those trying to maintain secrecy.

a reply to: mirageman


The writer makes a good case. Though I never thought of that until I read this, that the AF particularly hated ufology, and also, BTW, the guy claims they didn’t like Hynek’s later pro UFO antics.
Of course, people always feel different in any organization or may have different ideas on this chapter in ufo history.

In the final analysis, It may be irrelevant whether they hate ufology or not since, in this episode, it did great damage to it as well as damage to a human being.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

....the AF particularly hated ufology, and also, BTW, the guy claims they didn’t like Hynek’s later pro UFO antics.

Hynek had been around since the first days of Project Blue Book. Jerry Miller had been a Blue Book investigator and coincidentally just happened to be at hand to get involved with the PB case. Being the Chief Scientific Advisor at Kirtland. I believe Doty's uncle was also involved with Blue Book for a time too. I wonder what, if any, overlap there was between all of these folk?

a reply to: mirageman

Very fishy all those connections. That seems to always be the case. All these connections with the military have the same people hovering around ufology like flies on---you know what.

Something that occurred to me today that I’m sure others have thought about regarding this PB affair.

In the winter of 1979, maybe in mid-December, PB filmed those four vehicles roaming around in the middle of the dark night at Kirtland. Kirkland AFB is where they store nukes.

Exactly a year later, in 1980, in the same month, Dec 26-28, the so-called UK Roswell, among other alleged crafts, were some shape-wise somewhat similar to what the pictures that PB claims were flying around Kirtland ( though they may have been bigger) save the color, which is dark orange and the one at Rendlesham was black they say.
Many claim the Rendlesham base also stored nukes.

Interesting

No big thing; I'm sure it's just a minor coincidence.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

...Exactly a year later, in 1980, in the same month, Dec 26-28, the so-called UK Roswell, among other alleged crafts, were some shape-wise somewhat similar to what the pictures that PB claims were flying around Kirtland ( though they may have been bigger) save the color, which is dark orange and the one at Rendlesham was black they say.
Many claim the Rendlesham base also stored nukes.

Woodbridge/Bentwaters certainly contained tactical or battlefield warheads but not strategic missiles. The problem with the whole Rendlesham mess is that if you go back to the original witness statements, only one of them states they saw something "mechanical in nature". It has since became a mythical folktale with every retelling of the story. The Cash-Landrum incident also happened a few days later, and is possible there are links to one or both incidents. But there is no proof.

What I also suspect is that within the American military there are plenty of personnel who believe UFOs are visiting carrying alien visitors. So whenever details of an incident leaks out and containment is no longer possible, these personnel are then fed a bunch of crap to further poison the well. Reinforced by 'retired' agents whispering in their ears and telling stories in radio shows and podcasts. Confusion reigns supreme and ufology is left chasing down rabbit holes as always.

a reply to: mirageman

People often embellish, of course, but we know something strange happened out there, and we know the PB affair, though has not concrete facts all the time, but the dates match up, and the nukes match up, and the supposed alien vehicles somewhat match up.

Understanding this whole ufo episode is always filled with nebulous events.

Though not becoming too reductionist and explaining it based on one thing( here, a nuke connection), nevertheless, exploring a connection between them IMO makes sense. It might help us understand this very, very strange phenomenon.