Did Western leftists betray the people of Ukraine?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: LABTECH767


Did anyone in azov ever attack russia?

Even after russia invaded Ukraine to steal territory in 2014 and illegally occupied that Ukrainian territory for 8 years?

Or even threaten to do so?

Or even have the ability to do so?

Or did they send mean tweets?

Azov is a region INSIDE of Russia.

These guy's are a neo Nazi movement (don't know or care why they call themselves Azov) whom had nothing to do with the Ukraine's own original national military but were a very militant group whom were involved in the 2014 revolt against a formerly populist president (Russia claimed with western backing as that president had been very pro Russian), in fear of there lives and of Azov and other elements within there country whom were actually very dangerous the Ukrainian parliaments members went along with the overthrow of that president whom them had to flee the country if you recall.

Azov the movement in the Ukraine or rather a self appointed battalion called that only ended up being peripherally joined to the Ukrainian military with some of it's members in that military, the police and other services while they were mostly located in the very pro nationalist Ukrainian regions of the country.

Before this war with Russia they originally had VERY close ties to fellow neo Nazi's inside of Russia (And Russia actually has more of them than the Ukraine does?) and many of there members also shared membership in Ultra right wing movements in Russia as well.

So NO Russia has never attacked the region of Azov as it is actually inside of Russia and the Azov and other scum bag's are merely a convenient patsy for Putin to justify his invasion of the Ukraine as if he was REALLY against these fascist scum bags he would have dealt with the far larger number of similar fascist scum bags in Russia itself.

However if you try to see it from Russia's perspective they DID feel threatened by Nato's encroachment upon there borders and that has been an ongoing problem though at one time Russia itself considered Joining NATO (AFTER the cold war of course) before differences that were too great to bridge cropped up between themselves and Nato.

As for the Crimea I think that Russia is rightfully the landlords there as it was only a Ukrainian former president of the USSR that transferred that part of Russia into Ukrainian control simply as an administrative move but it's population at that time and today was and is mostly Russian (though Stalin murdered the original Muslim Tartars whom lived there for century's before his reign and they were neither Russian NOR Ukrainian).

Russia was BORN in the Ukraine, what we see today are borders that formed after the break down of the Soviet Union though for about 200 or so years before that maybe longer the Ukraine and Russia despite having slightly different languages and a slightly different culture were more or less one country much like England, Wales and Scotland or the US and Alaska.

This is one reason it is so shocking and horrific to see Russians many of whom have Ukrainian root's murdering Ukrainians many of whom have Russian Root's or to see Ukrainians persecute Russians within the Ukraine (it does happen a lot though Russians often persecuted the Ukrainians in the past as well so bad blood in the family like when two brothers have a falling out and one nicks the others inheritance AND his girlfriend).

The only reason we should get involved in this affair between family is to protect civilians but make no mistake there is that Oil in Crimea that so many want so what the end game of some is, well we will have to watch and see how it unfolds.

Putin is wrong simple as that and there are atrocity's being committed on both sides though Russia under Putin IS the Aggressor here, at this point justification for what has been done can not be found since Russia has gone way too far and committed way too many crimes against civilians whom are pretty much the same as it's own people simply because of lines on a map.

But make no mistake about it Azov the movement are not a nice bunch of people BUT it is worth mentioning that the regiment only came about in 2014 and not all of it's members ARE neo Nazi's though a great many of them are, it is claimed they formed in response to UKRAINIAN ethnic Russian separatists in the Donbas region and so basically there is bad blood between them there as in that internal conflict family's on both sides of that ethnic and ideological divide suffered injustice at the other sides hand's so once again it's like stepping into someone else's family argument without knowing the full picture.

I personally would like us to stay out of the conflict but think that if we had Russia may have gotten a bit too conceited thinking it could do anything it wanted which in reality it can not, we have seen how with decrepit gear the Ukrainians kept them at bay and when we started to filter some of our own B or C grade gear to them how it overpowered even the best the Russians currently have, we have also seen how much of the Russian reactive armour is actually dummy plates that don't even explode and are useless against much of the munitions we have provided anyway.

But as for boot's on the ground or giving the Ukraine our A grade gear that would be extremely dangerous, one it could provoke Russia too far and two giving an element whose own future intentions are uncertain due to rogue elements within there nation may come back to bite us on the arse.

Either way I feel sorry for the family's on both sides and in both nations suffering because of this needless war.

But there are worse wars to come on that I am certain, what we see in the Ukraine and Russia today may be our own tomorrow.

a reply to: Cutepants

If by "leftists" you mean congress and the department of defense then you would be right.
Source

The American government acknowledges they are extremists even their own youtube page has them performing the Cathedral Of Light which I have posted numerous times here. Not sure what it will take to convince people that Putin and Zelensky are the same and by supporting either side you are by extension supporting the destruction of Ukranian civilians.

This war would be over already if it wasn't for western intervention. Primarily America and the human trafficking biden administration...

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

I can understand why Mariupol wasn't top priority at the start of the war. Ukraine needed to make sure Kyiv was defended before they could start focusing on other parts of the country.

By the time Kyiv's safey was assured it was pretty much impossible to get anything into Mariupol.

Exactly.

Their rope a dope strategy worked brilliantly, and resulted in russia being soundly defeated in most of the country, including Kiev, but by the time Ukraine was ready to start really fighting back it was too late to save Marioupol.

For now.

Your comment from yesterday.

Yet everyone knew that Ukraine was in an absolute desperate situation at the time, and was rushing in foreign volunteers to units that weren't prepared for them, and were on the front lines desperately holding back the massive russian force in any way they could.

Ukraine appears to have simultaneously been desperately holding back Russia and also defeating them soundly with brilliant tactics.

a reply to: Ksihkehe



Wow, you really put a lot effort into that nonsense.

Funny.



Have you come up with even a single way that Ukraine threatened russia prior to russia's invasion yet?

Been asking for 2 months, doesn't anyone have even a single example of what russia claimed for so long and used as 'justification' for invading Ukraine again.

a reply to: JAY1980

Well I don't know of department of defense has leftists in key positions, but like I said I'm also referring to liberals. I probably made the title a bit too specific.

Not sure what it will take to convince people that Putin and Zelensky are the same and by supporting either side you are by extension supporting the destruction of Ukranian civilians.

It's no use trying to convince people of that, because this war isn't only about Zelensky and Putin. Try to ignore celebrities and think about the politics behind them, the long term.

a reply to: Cutepants

Azov battalion is still holding out

Oh i see far right so no far right in Ukraine within the Ukrainian army?

a reply to: LABTECH767

There's a city in Russia called Azov, but also the part of the Black Sea between Crimea and Russia is called the Azov. I think that's where the group got it's name from, but I'm not sure to be honest.

a reply to: vNex92

What do you mean?

a reply to: Grimpachi

By hostages, do you mean the Ukrainian civilians at Azovstal? If they were trying to exchange them for food, why would they have let them leave as soon as the Russian allowed it?

Why Turkey, why not Kyiv.

Turkey is a neutral state and NATO-member with relatively good relations to Russia, so their ships would be relatively safe.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: LABTECH767

There's a city in Russia called Azov, but also the part of the Black Sea between Crimea and Russia is called the Azov. I think that's where the group got it's name from, but I'm not sure to be honest.

Azov is kind of an old and proud regional name for folks that live on both sides of the border along the Sea Of Azov, though it's been pretty much a banned word in russia for 8 years, the 'azovs' are/were a small militia on the Ukrainian side of the border, with a fairly small portion of that militia having been highly propagandized by russia for their weird nazi fetish after they beat the crap out of several large russian units that invaded Ukraine in 2014.

a reply to: Cutepants

There is a lot media isn't showing us from the conflict in the Ukrainian conflict. When it comes to this conflict the only innocent are the civilians.

The Ukrainian government is not innocent.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Cutepants

There is a lot media isn't showing us from the conflict in the Ukrainian conflict. When it comes to this conflict the only innocent are the civilians.

The Ukrainian government is not innocent.

Did the Ukrainian government invade another country to kill civilians and steal their land?

The russian government did.




Have you come up with even a single way that Ukraine threatened russia prior to russia's invasion yet?

Been asking for 2 months, doesn't anyone have even a single example of what russia claimed for so long and used as 'justification' for invading Ukraine again.

a reply to: Cutepants

If they were trying to exchange them for food, why would they have let them leave as soon as the Russian allowed it?

They didn't. In fact, the first 25 escaped on their own.

Haven't you watched any of the testimonies from the escaped hostages?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Cutepants

If they were trying to exchange them for food, why would they have let them leave as soon as the Russian allowed it?

They didn't. In fact, the first 25 escaped on their own.

Haven't you watched any of the testimonies from the escaped hostages?

Has russia made any of the actors available to any actual journalist or independent investigator where they said the same things yet.

Let us know if russia ever stops refusing to do that.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Ksihkehe
Have you come up with even a single way that Ukraine threatened russia prior to russia's invasion yet?

Been asking for 2 months, doesn't anyone have even a single example of what russia claimed for so long and used as 'justification' for invading Ukraine again.

a reply to: Grimpachi

lol right, so they left on their own and hijacked buses and escaped to Ukrainian-controlled Zaporizhzhia? And I guess secretly made a cease fire deal with the Russians?

I don't know if you're being intentionally dense or not, but remember I'm talking about the ones who were hiding inside the bunkers.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Ksihkehe
Have you come up with even a single way that Ukraine threatened russia prior to russia's invasion yet?

Been asking for 2 months, doesn't anyone have even a single example of what russia claimed for so long and used as 'justification' for invading Ukraine again.

I take it that you can't come up with a single way that Ukraine posed any threat to russia prior to russia invading then?

Not a single one?

a reply to: Cutepants

The corridors had open windows for weeks. The hostages had a radio and they knew about them that way. 25 escaped on their own during one of those open corridors. It was after that the terrorists started letting people out. Then they started demanding 1 ton of food and medicine for every 15 hostages.

When you only listen to one side then you really shouldn't be accusing others of being dense when you hear contrary information from what you have been told or not told.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Ksihkehe
Have you come up with even a single way that Ukraine threatened russia prior to russia's invasion yet?

Been asking for 2 months, doesn't anyone have even a single example of what russia claimed for so long and used as 'justification' for invading Ukraine again.

I take it that you can't come up with a single way that Ukraine posed any threat to russia prior to russia invading then?

Not a single one?

A single one. Okay.

Ukraine was going to send all male athletes to compete in their next annual softball game against Russia.

The Donbass Softball and Other Bat Sports Reconciliation Accord specifically outlined team composition and it was supposed to be co-ed, not to exceed 8 males in the lineup at any time.

This provokation could not go unanswered, obviously. Russia intends to conquer Ukraine and bring them before the International Sporting Association Sports Crimes Tribunal.

The world is watching!

a reply to: Grimpachi

Maybe I misread your first reply. Are you admitting that they let the rest of the civilians go, even if you claim the first 25 escaped?

The corridors were officially open, but vehicles trying to evacuate the civilians often had to turn back because was shelling the corridors.

I've seen your video twice now. I'm sure you don't expect me to flip my whole view of the events based on couple statements from people who being filtered by Russian military. Just like you wouldn't be convinced if I showed you a Ukrainian propaganda video. So don't waste your time lecturing me.

But I'll humor you if you get to the point and stop bull#ting. So where in the video does someone say they escaped, can you quote that part to me?