Matt Gaetz's ex-girlfriend testifies to grand jury in sex trafficking probe

originally posted by: bastion

I wouldn't call him leaving his work computer switched on after making fake ID so he could traffic and pay to have sex with an underage girl very intelligent.

He may be intelligent in other areas but it seems he bragged about/shared pictures of these 'conquests' of paying to hae sex with people young enough to be his daughter. It's creepy, predatory behaiour.

BTW I was being snarking in my post due to her post being just a little over the top, to say the least.

It seems some left leaning articles suggested that he did. As I said before, unless more comes out, and they been digging for years, it is coming down to a Bahamas vacation with a woman he may of had sex there with who was of legal age for consent there. So yes they are trying to get him on sex trafficking since she flew from FL and any form of payment, flight ticket, dinner or cash can be used as a crime for paying for sex with a minor and it doesn't matter if he knew her age or not, and it doesn't matter if she was a few months from 18 when we would not even be talking about this.

He was in his mid 30s, so still rather young in age to suggest he is an old creepy man chasing young women. I dated women in their early 20s when I was in my 30s, My wife was 28 and I was 37 when we got married. We see 1000s of rich and famous men with very young and sexy girlfriends with 20+ years apart, why do they date young sexy women? Because they can...but now it is all bad with mid 30s Gaetz? It seems this is a one off for him in dating someone that young, as in his ex girl friend and others were well into their 20s at least, so did he even actually know her age? I know that doesn't matter in the end if he knew or now, but unless they can bring out some kind of sex ring he led we are only with them trying to get him on this above.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

What part of what I said was wrong?

Everything. Literally every single thing you've said in this thread is "wrong".

You don't belong here on ATS where of ALL things, a shared value of not paying minors for sex should be a 100% part of the T&C

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: geezlouise

To be blunt,all women who are dated are in effect selling themselves for some form of compensation or another. love is a compensation in that sense. Attention being paid,is a compensation. paying the check for them,another compensation. SO in a sense all men and women are prostitututes and pay for sex and affection.

I think we all understand the need for sex trafficking laws, but they can be used in situations where there really is no sex trafficking going on. If you lived in one of the 40 states where 16 or 17 is legal and you lived with your girlfriend of 17 and you were 35 it is perfectly OK. If she said lets drive to Vegas or fly to the Bahamas for the weekend you are now guilty of sex trafficking, and years later they can still get you on it if someone really wanted to go after you. Also, as the law is written even buying the woman a dinner and then having sex is a form of payment... I have no problem with our laws in this area and I wished they would go after more people, BUT they can be used as a weapon too if someone so desired.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

Everything. Literally every single thing you've said in this thread is "wrong".

You don't belong here on ATS where of ALL things, a shared value of not paying minors for sex should be a 100% part of the T&C

In what post did I say paying for sex with a minor was OK? If you want everyone to have the same opinion on everything then you are in the wrong place and maybe you can find some kumbaya site where you all just agree with everything. Not agreeing with the sensationalized posts here is not suggesting I agree with his actions in anything. I even said I disagree and don't even like the guy. People have called him a Pedophile or a sex trafficking ring leader, or saying a 35 year-old dating a 17 year-old is morally incomprehensible when it is perfectly legal to do in most counties around the world to include 40 states, and so on, so your personal opinions are your own and doesn't necessarily match what most countries say is OK.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not my nation that practices marrying off little girls to old beasts and called it religion aka ok in the eyes of God.

At least not this side of the millennium.

en.wikipedia.org...
populationmatters.org...
www.unicefusa.org...

Dont even need to be 16 in quite a few states of your own nation, or at least that was the case up until 2019.

What a predicament.

a reply to: puzzled2

Was it love at first sight? Did you marry that 35 yr old? How long were you with her. Do you still speak to her? What was the foundation of the relationship? It's very questionable.

Yes, 18 yr olds can make up their own minds.... somewhat, as much as anybody can at that age. Or any age.

What I'm sensing now is a denial of ones own vulnerability.

Sometimes victims deny their own victimhood because it hurts to face one's own vulnerability.

Victims often feel pleasure during the sexual abuse, too. They're groomed and coerced into becoming "willing" participants. They think that they are in control, when in reality they are not. They might even say, "hey I did nothing wrong, and I liked it." They might even have been under the illusion that they could stop it anytime they wanted.

Nobody likes learning about how helpless and vulnerable they are, how betrayed, how fooled. Nobody wants to be the fool... specially males. Males are almost not allowed to be helpless victims, while women are more acceptable as being helpless.

It should be made very clear that the victims didn't do anything wrong.

Misplaced anger on victims could drive those children to deeper devotions that it was in fact ok and that nothing bad happened, that they were in control of the situation and therefore hold themselves accountable as children.

And if they grow up believing it's ok, believing that they weren't a victim, believing that they as a child had been in control and they hold themselves accountable at these extremely young ages... then I hate to say it, they are at risk of recycling the behavior/abuse/treatment when they are older. They are at a higher risk of thinking it's ok to have sexual relations with children and then place accountability on the children. It's basic psychology.

Do you think it's ok for 30 yr olds to use teenagers for sex? Would you do it?

Do you think a 35 yr old and a 18 yr old have the same interests, and can form a loving union?

Well, maybe... in exceptional cases.

But personally from my 30's and onwards, 18 yr olds are children and they look like it.

When I interact with teenagers I am painfully aware of their vulnerability. They often seem fearful, unsure of how to behave around me, they are inexperienced, ignorant, still learning the world, not yet physically or mentally mature. There's nothing sexy about them. Of course when I was 18 yrs old other 18 yr olds were sexy, but I'm not 18 yrs old anymore.

The question is what kind of relationship can you really have with a teenager when you're so much older. Personally, that age gap makes it hard to form anything but a parental, nonsexual, mentor type of relationship.

In the book Lolita, Humbert complains of little Lolita's stupid young teenager interests... all she cares about is movies and music and makeup and whatever. He knowingly points out that he despises her personality and everything she's interested in. All he cares about is sex. There's no other connection in their relationship. The foundation of their relationship is shallow, sexual, objectifying, fleeting. There's no depth to it.

Do you deny your own vulnerability as a child? Or even as an adult? If so, I hope one day you can face your vulnerability... so that you can then face others vulnerability. Because when you deny vulnerability, you're at risk of recycling certain behaviors.

This thread is very telling on who would hold children accountable.

originally posted by: andy06shake

What a predicament.

In 1880 most states were 10 years-old and none over 12....


I feel if it was 18 everywhere then laws would align very nicely, morals aside. Right now it is OK to have sex, but drive across any state lines and have sex is illegal, or spend any money in anyway is illegal. I would rather see it all Black and White in below 18 anything it is illegal and above 18 it is legal even if you spend money in the process. This doesn't mean sex trafficking laws would go away either, but it would be much cleaner to convict bad people.

originally posted by: geezlouise

This thread is very telling on who would hold children accountable.

Do you see 17 to 19 as children still?

a reply to: Xtrozero

In the UK in 1880 the legal age of consent was just 13 years old.

But back then we also sent weans as young as 5 years old down mines and into the likes of machine shops/textile mills to work 12 hour shifts with not a thought as to there health or safety.

It's not 1880 any longer all the same Xtrozero.

Fact of the matter is that sex trafficking is not going to go away anytime soon and is more prevalent in this day of age than it ever was in the past, same with slavery if we are honest, just down to the increase in our respective population numbers.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Fact of the matter is that sex trafficking is not going to go away anytime soon and is more prevalent in this day of age than it ever was in the past, same with slavery if we are honest, just down to the increase in our respective population numbers.

People also need to stop driving hard one way and looking away for worst situations. We talk about how bad it is that Gaetz takes a 17 year-old on a trip to Bahamas while the left want open borders while just ignoring much of what does across the border is sex trafficking with the left saying, nothing to see there...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
We talk about how bad it is that Gaetz takes a 17 year-old on a trip to Bahamas while the left want open borders while just ignoring much of what does across the border is sex trafficking with the left saying, nothing to see there...

That should be his defense, we can call it the 'Whataboutism Strategy'. He can say, "I may be a sex-trafficking POS but there's bad stuff happening elsewhere so let me go".

Would totally work.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Gaetz is "bad".

Transporting little 17 year old girls to far off islands and paying them for the purposes of sex is "bad".

As to the left and borders well how you have went from paedophiles to politics is rather suspect.

Not about simplistic left vs right ideologies or Mexican borders.

A beast is a beast and it was the Bahamas.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

Gaetz is "bad".

Transporting little 17 year old girls to far off islands and paying them for the purposes of sex is "bad".

As to the left and borders well how you have went from paedophiles to politics is rather suspect.

Not about simplistic left vs right ideologies or Mexican borders.

A beast is a beast and it was the Bahamas.

17 yrs old are charged as adults in crimes,so why not here? because it is political hypocracy.

a reply to: yuppa

More like morally ambiguous.

Going with teenagers(under 18) when you are a full grown Man is wrong yuppa on a multitude of different levels.

And any Man that thinks otherwise should be taken for a long walk off a short pier with some rocks in their pockets for good measure.

Simple as that really.

originally posted by: yuppa
17 yrs old are charged as adults in crimes,so why not here?

Because she is a victim and not a criminal.

originally posted by: andy06shake

As to the left and borders well how you have went from paedophiles to politics is rather suspect.

Not about simplistic left vs right ideologies or Mexican borders.

A beast is a beast and it was the Bahamas.

Suspect of what? If you do not think the left has been using the justice system as a political weapon I'm not sure where you been these last 5 years. Gaetz is also not proven guilty, but I guess he is in your eyes...

I'm also not sure why the words "children" and "pedophile" keep being used here. Neither has anything to do with this.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Maybe you should start a thread about that?

Again this is not about right vs left ideology, stop with the whataboutisms.

Your sounding offlay apologetic about Mr Gaetz's again Xtrozero.

What he got up to in the Bahamas with little girls is apt to come out in the end.

Why do you imagine he has employed the services of some of the best people around in there profession with regards to his actions surrounding this whole nasty kerfuffle if he has nothing to hide?

The Man is pals(was pals) with convicted sex traffickers Xtrozero

"Can you see what it is yet?"

originally posted by: andy06shake

What he got up to in the Bahamas with little girls is apt to come out in the end.

"Can you see what it is yet?"

At what age does a little girl become a woman?